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  1. #1

    Sep 2013
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    ground balance 0

    Just noticed CT Todd and Hugh Campbell in Andys equinox book both do 0 ground balance

    I always find clean ground, test it with treshold if no null, I pump in this area i am usually at 22-27, and the detector runs well

    what advantage is 0 ground balance ?

  2. #2
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    Steve

    Sep 2014
    Maryland
    Minelab EXt 505, Tesoro Sand shark, Whites coinmaster pro. Tesoro Compadre.
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    I use 0 also, but I also like to put the GB in auto mode.Works fine so far.
    All who fought in our Armed forces, Did so that you can be free. Nam, 1969 -1970.

    X-terra 505, Tesoro Sand Shark, Tesoro compadre, Equinox 600.

  3. #3
    us
    Sep 2012
    Highlands, TX
    Garrett AT Pro Minelab Equinox 800 Fisher CZ-21
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutbum View Post
    I use 0 also, but I also like to put the GB in auto mode.Works fine so far.
    The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.
    gunsil and troutbum like this.

  4. #4
    us
    Dec 2017
    Franklin, KY
    Equinox 800 XP Deus Vanquish 540
    135
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    Metal Detecting
    The multi IQ negates most of the ground effects. Ground balancing won't hurt anything but generally isn't necesarry unless you have mineralized soil.

  5. #5
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    Jul 2010
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    I use 0 GB in multi, which I use 99% of the time since Day1 of getting the Equinox. Minelab engineers says that a GB isn't needed, I follow that advice. I never run in auto on purpose, precisely for that point about balancing out a good target. I learned that lesson with my V3i nearly 10 years ago. The thing is...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't get me wrong. I tested all modes here in my established test garden right away, and leaving the GB at 0 in multi was never improved upon with a GB. Why muddy the water? ML said zero GB in multi, in the manual.
    troutbum and Hddeuce03 like this.

  6. #6
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    Steve

    Sep 2014
    Maryland
    Minelab EXt 505, Tesoro Sand shark, Whites coinmaster pro. Tesoro Compadre.
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayoutalker View Post
    The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.
    Your right. The more you go over target in Auto. , sometimes you can lose it. I found that out yesterday on a park hunt. I will just leave it at 0.
    All who fought in our Armed forces, Did so that you can be free. Nam, 1969 -1970.

    X-terra 505, Tesoro Sand Shark, Tesoro compadre, Equinox 600.

  7. #7
    Charter Member
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    Colonel

    Jan 2014
    Central Florida
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    GB=0 for me at central Florida beaches. No issues.
    Hddeuce03 likes this.
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  8. #8
    Charter Member
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    Master of My Domain

    Jul 2015
    Near Ground Zero for Insanity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amergin View Post
    Just noticed CT Todd and Hugh Campbell in Andys equinox book both do 0 ground balance

    I always find clean ground, test it with treshold if no null, I pump in this area i am usually at 22-27, and the detector runs well

    what advantage is 0 ground balance ?
    Yeah, at least in my case (can’t speak for Todd), that’s a typo. I don’t use “0” ground balance except at the beach. I typically do an Auto GB at least and then use tracking GB in the field when relic hunting in moderate to hot soil with great success and therefore disagree with the general concept that tracking GB zero’s out targets as stated above. Frankly, it responds too slowly and gradually to do that in the first place (that’s why I do an Auto GB first). Second, all GB accomplishes on the Equinox is elimination of ground noise. If your target is ringing up as a -8 or -9 it might disappear while swinging and using tracking (but why are you stopping for a -8/-9 hit in the first place?), but I have never had anything that was clearly non-ferrous cancel out while using tracking GB.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bayoutalker View Post
    The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.
    See above. If you are referring to tracking (vice Auto GB), I have seen that with other detectors (e.g., Deus before the latest updates) but never with Equinox.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKinney_5900 View Post
    I use 0 GB in multi, which I use 99% of the time since Day1 of getting the Equinox. Minelab engineers says that a GB isn't needed, I follow that advice. I never run in auto on purpose, precisely for that point about balancing out a good target. I learned that lesson with my V3i nearly 10 years ago. The thing is...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't get me wrong. I tested all modes here in my established test garden right away, and leaving the GB at 0 in multi was never improved upon with a GB. Why muddy the water? ML said zero GB in multi, in the manual.
    This is what the manual says: The default Ground Balance setting of 0 is
    recommended for Park, Field and Beach Modes
    because these locations typically have less
    mineralisation than goldfields.
    However, if the ground is generating many noise signals (and/
    or the Sensitivity level is set very low), then using Auto Ground
    Balance is recommended.


    So if you are experiencing a lot of ground noise (which you can only hear if iron sector disc is off (e.g., in no disc “horseshoe” mode), then you should ground balance if you want to run with no disc (how I normally hunt). Otherwise, yeah, you won’t be aware of any difference. But frankly, an auto GB takes about 5 seconds, optimizes your machine for the ground conditions at hand, and if accomplished properly, should have no adverse impact on performance.

    Regarding tracking, definitely not required under most circumstances, but useful in high mineralization when ground phase is highly variable. I have never had a target “disappear” while using it with Equinox.

    Quote Originally Posted by troutbum View Post
    Your right. The more you go over target in Auto. , sometimes you can lose it. I found that out yesterday on a park hunt. I will just leave it at 0.
    I think you mean tracking not auto. Again, never had Equinox do this after using it for 3 years. But if you are just park hunting, there is no need for tracking. Auto GB is fixed after Auto GB is run, so it should not have caused ANY target to disappear. There are other things that can make a target disappear while swinging over it, though. Especially, if you disturb the ground or the target hit is actually caused by ferrous falsing.

    Just relating my experiences here, not telling anyone how they should set up their machine or necessarily refuting what they’ve seen. Reading the ML documentation in detail and after hundreds of swing hours on Equinox, these statements are based on my personal experience and understanding of how the Equinox was intended to be set up.

    HC
    Last edited by vferrari; Oct 21, 2020 at 08:16 PM.
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  9. #9
    us
    Sep 2012
    Highlands, TX
    Garrett AT Pro Minelab Equinox 800 Fisher CZ-21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayoutalker View Post
    The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.
    I did use the wrong terminology. I meant tracking GB not auto.
    vferrari likes this.

  10. #10
    us
    Oct 2016
    South St Paul, MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67GTA View Post
    The multi IQ negates most of the ground effects. Ground balancing won't hurt anything but generally isn't necesarry unless you have mineralized soil.
    I've been at this for four years now, and to be honest, I still have no idea how to tell how mineralized the soil is. Please explain.
    KREQ600 likes this.

  11. #11
    us
    Oct 2016
    South St Paul, MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutbum View Post
    Your right. The more you go over target in Auto. , sometimes you can lose it. I found that out yesterday on a park hunt. I will just leave it at 0.
    I generally use tracking, and have never noticed that with the Nox. I did notice that on an early release of the XP Deus firmware but even that was fixed in a patch.
    vferrari likes this.

  12. #12
    Charter Member
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    Master of My Domain

    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Buzz View Post
    I've been at this for four years now, and to be honest, I still have no idea how to tell how mineralized the soil is. Please explain.
    Mineralized soil contains high amounts of magnetite and/or other iron oxides. Basically the black stuff you see that attaches itself to a magnet when you drag it through dirt.

    High levels of mineralization affect ground phase readings and also attenuate (weaken) the magnetic field that is put into the ground by the coil and because of that, limits detection depth.
    High ground phase readings can be indicative of mineralization but other things in the soil can affect the ground phase besides mineralization so ground phase cannot really tell you that the soil is mineralized.

    The only way to tell the level of soil mineralization is to use a mineralization meter. Many First Texas detectors, the XP Deus, and even the Nokta Simplex+ have mineralization level meters. High or variable levels of mineralization can cause large swings in ground phase which can be mitigated by using a detector with tracking ground balance to detect changes in mineralization and rebalance automatically on the fly.

    The Equinox senses mineralization changes and rebalances in tracking mode, but does not explicitly display mineralization level. The Equinox measured ground phase number can vary depenending on selected mode for a given spot and that is why you need to ground balance separately for each mode and is also the reason the Equinox displayed ground phase number tells you absolutely nothing about the level of mineralization at your site. In other words, a high ground phase reading on the Nox does not necessarily mean the ground is highly mineralized.

    To mitigate the effects of mineralization on detection depth loss and excessive ground noise with vlf machines - use tracking GB or rebalance frequently, try to use smaller coils that don't see as much ground, minimize the output power of the transmit coil, if possible, and use lower frequencies that are attenuated less by the ground. If possible, use a PI detector which is generally unaffected by mineralization due to the different principle it uses to detect metallic targets.

    HTH
    Last edited by vferrari; Oct 22, 2020 at 08:03 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Silver Fiend

    Oct 2009
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    The reason most people can hunt without any worry with a GB = 0, is 2 fold. The first is that the Minelab multi-freqs are constantly sensing the ground return and subtracting that from the target signal return. The second is because FBS, FBS2 and M-IQ all use a time-domain signal sampling (the same as PI detectors) while every other VLF detector uses a frequency domain. This feature automatically eliminates a lot of ground signal return.
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  14. #14
    us
    Jan 2010
    Coloma, Michigan
    Xterra 70 6" 7.5khz concentric 9" 7.5Khz concentric, 5x10 18.75Khz DD, 10.5 18.75Khz DD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayoutalker View Post
    The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.
    Careful on that statement. I got a lot of flack for saying the same thing. But no matter I have had targets disappear. So just beware.
    Doug
    Coloma, Michigan, South West lower Michigan.Just east of St,
    Joseph Mi, 12 miles

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  15. #15
    us
    Sep 2012
    Highlands, TX
    Garrett AT Pro Minelab Equinox 800 Fisher CZ-21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    Careful on that statement. I got a lot of flack for saying the same thing. But no matter I have had targets disappear. So just beware.
    Doug
    Bring on the flack. They can believe what they want. I know what I've seen.
    Donut likes this.

 

 
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