Question...Does changing frequency help while hunting?

[BH505Man]

While hunting around an old park or an old house using Park 1 setting, I often get mixed signals alerting me that there are possibly multiple deep mixed targets like iron and a coin. My question is, does changing to a low single frequency like 4khz or 5khz help in detecting and verifying a deep coin signal? And what is the best single frequency to use to verify this? Will changing to 20khz or 40khz help in verifying gold jewelry or gold coins?

 

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[danloop]

The only way to know is try it and dig. Soil is different wherever you go so what works in one place may not in another.

 

[eman1000]

In theory - yes changing frequency (assuming soil conditions are stable) should help. Lower Freq will hit deeper on Silver coins and Higher Freq will hit deeper on Gold items as a general rule of thumb. This is why most single freq VLF machines run around 14-16khz because overtime they have found that that frequency is a happy medium for hunting both coins and gold jewelry.

Changing from 20 to 40 will probably not have a significant impact on verifying a deep coin. however dropping from 20 down to 5 might help you determine a deeper coin and vice-versa changing from 5 back to 40 might give you a little extra depth on a piece of gold jewelry.

Of course this is the real beauty in Multi-Freq. is that it is doing all of this for you. Changing from Multi to a single freq can help you determine iron though and has become a good method for distinguishing bottle caps with the Equinox.

My personal hunting with the XP my default freq is 17khz and if I get a deep questionable target I drop to 7khz and a slower reactivity and check the hole. (Primarily a coin & relic hunter)

 

[bigscoop]

While hunting around an old park or an old house using Park 1 setting, I often get mixed signals alerting me that there are possibly multiple deep mixed targets like iron and a coin. My question is, does changing to a low single frequency like 4khz or 5khz help in detecting and verifying a deep coin signal? And what is the best single frequency to use to verify this? Will changing to 20khz or 40khz help in verifying gold jewelry or gold coins?

I see you are also in Indiana, as am I. Old parks are tough and not so much due to the amount of iron in the ground but mainly due to all of the other bits and pieces of non-ferrous metals in the ground, this being the greatest nemesis.

What you’re dealing with is known as “clipping.” Generally clipping can occur whenever the search field encounters a target that contains both ferrous and non-ferrous metals, or whenever two or more targets are encountered in the search field at nearly the same moment. Clipping can also happen when an item registers at the edge (just above or below) of a notched out position. Keep all of this in mind as understanding clipping is important.

I’ve been using an Equinox 800 in my local old parks and those places of similar nature. While the 800 allows me recovery speed adjustments from 1 to 8 with 8 being the fastest, I seldom use anything faster then 6 and usually 1 through 5. The reason for this is because I don’t want to lose that potentially important clipping that these faster recovery speeds frequently sacrifice. You see, the only way to achieve faster recovery speeds is by arranging things so that the processor doesn’t have to process those clippings, or in other words, those weaker and fainter and uncertain returns, so these are often returns that you’ll never even hear when employing faster recovery speeds. Keep all of this in mind too.

Slower recovery speeds when used with slower coil motion simply provides for a great deal more target information because we are allowing the processor more time to accept and to process those weaker and fainter and uncertain returns. Make sense? Trust me, as all of this is going to address many of the clipping issues that you are experiencing.

Since slower recovery speeds allow for more target information and more time for the processor to evaluate targets this will often times turn clipping into actual target signatures when we employ slow and very short minute coil motions over the suspected target area. In essence we are allowing the processor more time to locate the suspected target and to isolate it from the surrounding contaminates, especially when those suspected targets are deeper and those returns are rather faint/weak. This is something we cannot do very often when employing faster recovery speeds. Thus the reasons why I seldom employ recovery speeds much over 5 or 6 and generally slower whenever possible. A small coil is also a big plus in those really trashy areas as this allows for fewer targets being in the swing plane and/or search field at the same time.

BUT, it still isn’t easy to ferret out what little remaining silver might still exist in these heavily hunted places. Detecting clubs use to be big deals in Indiana back in the 60-70’s and even back then detectors were quite capable. To offer you an idea I’ve been keeping track of my recoveries in the old and heavily hunted out park that I detect and my count to date is 43 quarters, 56 nickels, 85 dimes, and over 200 pennies. For all of these efforts, plus all of the other assorted crap, I’ve only managed 2 mercury dimes, 1 silver pendant, 2 silver rings, 2 late period silver quarters, and 5 rosies. “All of them deeper then 8”….another reason to avoid faster recovery speeds because faster recovery speeds also sacrifice depth. Sensitivity is also generally run as high as I can get away with, higher with the smaller coil and lower with the larger stock coil, depending on ground conditions. Hope some of this helps! PS: I'm generally in Park 2, sense usually between 14-20, and of late I've even notched out everything below 20 and everything above 34.....but this is strictly my coin hunting mode, less some of the pennies and nickels, in that particular old park and those conditions. This range still allows for coins (other then nickels) and most sterling jewelry items. I don't even bother with gold jewelry in this old park simply due to all of the non-ferrous trash.

 

[Donut]

I have some areas i cal only use 10 khz. because of high EMS. and I know I’m loosing / missing things but I have no choice.

 

[smokeythecat]

Truth be told, I have never figured it out. Vferrari called me the "queen of the relics" the other day. I went to a truly beat up camp, and pulled out 5 CW buttons. I use the 74khz frequency. All the low to mid frequencies have already been at this camp and they just don't cut it anymore. The low fequencies 4-5 khz were the bomb 50 years ago.

 

[midalake]

Truth be told, I have never figured it out. Vferrari called me the "queen of the relics" the other day. I went to a truly beat up camp, and pulled out 5 CW buttons. I use the 74khz frequency. All the low to mid frequencies have already been at this camp and they just don't cut it anymore. The low fequencies 4-5 khz were the bomb 50 years ago.

74khz in an Equinox? Do tell.

 

[Truth]

I have some areas i cal only use 10 khz. because of high EMS. and I know I’m loosing / missing things but I have no choice.

You can’t use multiple and just lower to let’s say 18-19?

 

[Truth]

I keep it on multi and I can customize from there with 50 tones etc. what the advantage using other kHz. Multi covers them all. The only advantage to this Louisiana dirt it has no minerals in the soil. Ground balance is at zero. My spot has been hit so much that you’re lucky to get anything but if you do it something great. But with the gas prices and $50 toll I’ll spread $20 just driving and the odds are getting less and less. Tell me that a kHz will work better at this point I’m all in.

 

[brianc053]

74khz in an Equinox? Do tell.

He's using the XP Deus HF (High Frequency) coil. Since the original question was about changing frequencies, and XP lets you change frequencies more granularly (on each coil) and across several coils with different frequency ranges, the answer is totally relevant.

Hey Smoky, since you mentioned this (the high 74khz frequency) I'll ask your opinion about the higher frequencies (40khz on the Equinox, and even higher on the Deus): do you really feel like you lose depth with those higher frequencies? I know the physics says that lower frequencies penetrate further than higher, and the general rule of thumb is that you "lose depth" with higher freq. - but do you really? I mean, we're only talking about targets that are 6,7,8, maybe 9" down. What are we losing with higher frequencies? Fractions of an inch? What do you think?

- Brian

 

[brianc053]

You can’t use multiple and just lower to let’s say 18-19?

Truth, I'm having this same issue with my Equinox at a field with a lot of EMI. I would have to lower sensitivity to about 15 to get it to quiet down, and even then there are some blips. Instead I typically switch to 15khz (in this location that's the quietest), and re-do the noise cancel, but there's still noise. (it's a field between an above-ground power line and a cell tower, with underground stuff too - can't tell what's causing the problem). I've given up using the Equinox at this spot and use the XP Deus, with which I can switch to 11khz and then in Expert mode tweak the frequency up toward 12khz. That works best...and it's what produced the 1901 Barber Half I posted about this past week.
If you or others have further suggestions on how to quiet EMI I'm all ears, and if you think 15 sensitivity on the Equinox is still ok, then maybe I'll try it again.
- Brian

 

[smokeythecat]

Brianc053, if I'm losing any depth, I'm not noticing it. Vferrari and I have run different machines and different coils over the same targets including using the Deus, Equinox 800 and Deus with X35 coil. On SMALL targets, like buttons, especially with iron around the Deus with the HF coil did better. Sometimes the others mentioned didn't pick up the items at all. We were out on Sunday doing more side by side comparisons. I have found tiny 17th century buckles at 11" with the Deus. And frequency is frequency, doesn't matter what machine engine is generating it. It's kinda like RPM's on a car, different cars, same RPM. Might get different performance but a frequency is a frequency. The 74 is only available on the Deus. I'll have to post what I found this year, but it might take up the whole website. Did find another Indian trade brass kettle point on Saturday.

And Midalake, Minelab dropped the ball on that one by not having a higher frequency.

And the 4-5 khz frequencies, those have been around for FIFTY YEARS so if you go back over a dug site with them, it's yesterday's wilted salad. Been there, done that. Reminds me of the old days detecting with those ancient blue White's monsters we used to have.

 

[DizzyDigger]

If you or others have further suggestions on how to quiet EMI I'm
all ears, and if you think 15 sensitivity on the Equinox is still ok, then maybe
I'll try it again.- Brian

Brian, although I don't own an Equinox I have been following the
posts when EMI is involved. From what I've come to understand,
the control housing on the Equinox may not be sufficiently shielded
from electrical field EMI.

Midlake has fashioned an additional shield around the edges of his
control box using aluminum foil, and I believe he's had some success
at reducing the instance of EMI.

 

[brianc053]

Brianc053, if I'm losing any depth, I'm not noticing it. Vferrari and I have run different machines and different coils over the same targets including using the Deus, Equinox 800 and Deus with X35 coil. On SMALL targets, like buttons, especially with iron around the Deus with the HF coil did better. Sometimes the others mentioned didn't pick up the items at all. We were out on Sunday doing more side by side comparisons. I have found tiny 17th century buckles at 11" with the Deus. And frequency is frequency, doesn't matter what machine engine is generating it. It's kinda like RPM's on a car, different cars, same RPM. Might get different performance but a frequency is a frequency. The 74 is only available on the Deus. I'll have to post what I found this year, but it might take up the whole website. Did find another Indian trade brass kettle point on Saturday....

You're selling me on the Deus' HF coil... I already know that the Deus with the X35 round 11" has picked out targets on old iron-heavy sites that the Equinox missed.
Coming back to the original question (sorry, I distracted from the topic), on the Equinox I think the 6" coil will help separate targets on sites with a lot of trash better than playing with single frequencies. I believe the MultiIQ tech is something Minelab did very well on the Equinox, and if I ever switch to single frequency on the Nox I feel like I might be missing something or getting unclear ID's. The ID's with MultiIQ are very predictable (to me anyway).

 

[brianc053]

Brian, although I don't own an Equinox I have been following the
posts when EMI is involved. From what I've come to understand,
the control housing on the Equinox may not be sufficiently shielded
from electrical field EMI.

Midlake has fashioned an additional shield around the edges of his
control box using aluminum foil, and I believe he's had some success
at reducing the instance of EMI.

Thanks Dizzy, I followed that thread but didn't try out the shielding. Maybe I should - nothing to lose (but a bit of foil)!

 

[pepperj]

I've had the HF coil for 2 out of 4 yrs with the Deus. The 9" elliptical coil, is it better or worse that the round?
I wanted to run around scrub brush, bush hunting and running it at 74 is a real cool thing. I dig .22cal shorts in the bush at 6-8" so depths are no problem as if it anything larger then it's going to hit.
I find the thin Half Penny tokens that are in heavy clay if on edge-10" maxed right out-have to be on my game to hear them it seems.
Many times I will change settings at a site to hear how a target is responding, little chirp, go slow, comes up better, scuff the soil, comes up better, change Freq. and listen see if it changes my ability of hearing the target.
It still seems to be a trial and error with the machines depending on the stars and moon almost, and how the day is going.
Sometimes it's like machine and man are in tune and the finds are plenty-next time-nothing.
I know the the ETrac sucked out some finds that the HF coil on the Deus seems to have missed from the Wed hunt-so maybe the freq. coil sizes have some merit.

 

[bigscoop]

Truth, I'm having this same issue with my Equinox at a field with a lot of EMI. I would have to lower sensitivity to about 15 to get it to quiet down, and even then there are some blips. Instead I typically switch to 15khz (in this location that's the quietest), and re-do the noise cancel, but there's still noise. (it's a field between an above-ground power line and a cell tower, with underground stuff too - can't tell what's causing the problem). I've given up using the Equinox at this spot and use the XP Deus, with which I can switch to 11khz and then in Expert mode tweak the frequency up toward 12khz. That works best...and it's what produced the 1901 Barber Half I posted about this past week.
If you or others have further suggestions on how to quiet EMI I'm all ears, and if you think 15 sensitivity on the Equinox is still ok, then maybe I'll try it again.
- Brian

In one of the old trashy parks that I hunt I use a 15 sensitivity a great deal of the time, just this past week I have recovered two Mercs at around 9" with the large coil, one old sterling broach pin about the size of a quarter at about 10" with the 6" coil, plus a half dozen Rosies all in that 8-9" range with both coils. And through all of this "a lot" of deep clad. So I think 15 is plenty enough when required but I feel more comfortable at 18-20 whenever I can. On the other hand, too much sense can actually cost us targets sometimes.