Primitive skills: Starting a fire without matches is empowering.

[MEinWV]

How many of you have the knowledge of our ancestors? The ancient ones had the everyday skills needed to survive. We are far removed from our own natural instincts and it could come back to bite current and future generations.

Fire was a huge discovery for mankind. It obviously must have started from a lightning strike, which from there started mans wheels turning.

Fire starting methods evolved over the eons and there are a number of ways that it can be done. The most common methods include the use of the "bow and drill" and "flint and steel". Other methods such as the fire board and fire piston are also viable.

I feel that it may become ever more imperative that us modern folks learn the secrets of the ancients. It can create a feeling of power and freedom over the elements and give us a greater sense of security.

I saw this statement once and copied it so that I could read it at any given time. It helped me to go ahead and start to learn some primitive skills. I can make a fire with flint and steel now and I am still working on getting a fire started with the bow and drill method.

This is a woman's statement,

"Today these modern hands remembered the old ways. Soft and pale, unhardened by sun or experience, not callused by trees and rocks, they held again the shapes of the earth and rejoiced. They stung with the pain for forgetting, yet now they have given life to one of the four elements. Taken back to childhood, and beyond, to the time of dreams, where hands were skilled, strong and wise. Where mouths blew breath on those embers sparking life into flames which burned for generations. The smoke we held in our raised hands carried a prayer to the Great Spirit."

By: Beth Baugh (Dec. 1st, 1991) "After starting a fire without matches with my Dad"


Learn some primitive skills and get yourself free!

 

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[lonesomebob]

I have been teaching scouts and other kids this for years, good going,keep it up, Bob

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Thank you for this post Mr MeinWV, I too am a student in the arts of primitive living. From scratch is a term that is often bandied about in my household, as we've turned this kind of instruction into a game with our children. We go on entire vacations living as natural and primitive as possible from fire starting to wild edibles. Game hunting, fishing skills, stone points knapping, bow, arrow and spear making. We make shelters out of available resources and in keeping with the environment we are in. Even during our normal times at home we do things like have contests to see who can make the best from scratch meal item. For instance my daughter will get eggs from our neighbors chickens, she'll grind the flour from a wild seed, she'll even go so far as as to make an icing using sweet cream and honey. I had the runs for a week after this one due to excess fiber in my diet. My son is a never ending source of primitive weapons for hunting and he loves going hunting with me. We have yet to score an actual deer kill with our primitive bows and arrows. But we both write that off to a lack of effort. In a real life or death situation we figure hunger will be a great motivator. We have had great success with goose and duck hunting, I want to try turkey this spring. I posted allot of this stuff awhile back but most people here are asleep and awaiting their final destinations. Oh well not much you can do if people don't wanna be saved.

What kind of wood do you use to make your bows?

 

[Lowbatts]

Earnest T, you could hop on a deer's back around here, they don't run away until you slap 'em and tell them too. As for the wild turkey, had one once that was trying to peck the lugnuts off the car, while we were driving. Big ol'e doofus Tom we called him. Don't think he got much bigger, until the stuffing.

But reading all that about you, you ever make it out this way and we'll go paddlin' down the river and do some hogging on those fish in the mud flats. After that we'll go sell them on Maxwell Street, ah the wilderness of Chicagoland!

(Maxwell Street is no longer what it once was, might have to go to Taylor Street or better yet hit Fabyian Parkway and skip the city)

You are one well rounded individual!

 

[JOE(USA)]

Well done! I feel this way myself but never thought to write it down so others could ponder it. Thanks! Joe

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Thank you for this post Mr MeinWV, I too am a student in the arts of primitive living. From scratch is a term that is often bandied about in my household, as we've turned this kind of instruction into a game with our children. We go on entire vacations living as natural and primitive as possible from fire starting to wild edibles. Game hunting, fishing skills, stone points knapping, bow, arrow and spear making. We make shelters out of available resources and in keeping with the environment we are in. Even during our normal times at home we do things like have contests to see who can make the best from scratch meal item. For instance my daughter will get eggs from our neighbors chickens, she'll grind the flour from a wild seed, she'll even go so far as as to make an icing using sweet cream and honey. I had the runs for a week after this one due to excess fiber in my diet. My son is a never ending source of primitive weapons for hunting and he loves going hunting with me. We have yet to score an actual deer kill with our primitive bows and arrows. But we both write that off to a lack of effort. In a real life or death situation we figure hunger will be a great motivator. We have had great success with goose and duck hunting, I want to try turkey this spring. I posted allot of this stuff awhile back but most people here are asleep and awaiting their final destinations. Oh well not much you can do if people don't wanna be saved.

What kind of wood do you use to make your bows?

That's a great idea Cache Crazy....Ernest can you post some pictures of your points and some of the things that you have made? It would be a great teaching tool...maybe even some pictures of the shelters that you and your family build on one of your outings. I would love to see some of your points as you are knapping them...the technics that you use etc...

I've been wanting to try to make a bow, but I need to learn how.

 

[Lowbatts]

Used take pigeon, duck and rabbit with a slingshot. Waiting to try it out on boar...

 

[45-70Ranger]

Do not forget the old ways.
They will work,when modern methods can and will fail.
There are umteen books and magazines for primative/survival skills.
FM21-76 ARMY manual comes to mind.Buy the one that has full color plates(pictures) a big help here.
Plus,some websites has free downloads of FM21-76.
Others has drawings,which are somewhat helpful.
Maybe another forum for Survival and Primative Skills ?
With the way things are now,you'll never know when those skills will come in handy.

 

[MEinWV]

Great information E.T.B. ! Thank you and all the posters here for your interest and ideas!

Yes! Youtube is a great resource for primitive skills videos.

As a boy, my first books were the "Boy Scout handbook" and an old book called "Skills For Taming The Wilds". Back a decade or so ago I read an article in Readers Digest about a man named Tom Brown Jr. (The Tracker). He lives in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey and runs a tracking, nature and wilderness survival school. He has written 17 books on the subject. I read his first book, "The Tracker" and I was hooked. I have enjoyed many of his other books as well. They are filled with stories and teachings of his skills and expertise as a naturalist. His skills were taught to him by an old Native American, Stalking Wolf, known to Tom as "Grandfather". These books are informative, exciting, and relaxing at the same time. Actually, the best way to read them is from his first book on, in the order they were released, as this will give you the background knowledge of his journey as a student. They take you back to less stressful times, as compared to all of our modern problems. They can leave you feeling more confident about situations that you may not have control over.
He even wrote a book about urban and city survival skills, which will be a big help for so many more folks out there.

Keep learning new skills, or get started on the path of knowledge now. Not only is it fun and educational, but it could actually save your life. Those folks that possess the knowledge of the ancient ones will be the leaders of the future.

Good luck folks! (45-70; A Survival and Primitive Skills forum is a great idea)

 

[45-70Ranger]

Thank you.
I don't want to be a know-it-all.Not an expert,but enjoy getting thoughts/ideas bantered around.
I'm always a bit "nosey" as to who-keeps-what in their kit.
Somethings are more useful than others.
While at the same time,some "things" are just junk.
Find out what works and what don't.What don't work,yard sale them.
I basically learned survival with C.A.P. on Palomar Mountain back in the late 60's.
From here,I just had to learn more.
Sometimes,it maybe something that can add to your ,let's say,comfort,while trying to be found.And,
not that moving around like on those "survival" shows.A note on these shows;On Greybeard Outdoors,we
were talking about them.One said to paraphrase "You likely to get killed with doing stuff like that....".I tend to agree.
Whenever you're out in the woods/outback,DO carry a kit with you.It might look silly to some.Should anyone say anything,just ask them why do they carry a spare tire ?
Those that are ill prepared,will usually get the short end of the stick.
But,Murphy's Law is in place 24-7-365.
Have more than one way to make a fire.It would be like a backup to your backup.
Ragnar Benson said in an issue of "American Survival Guide"(no longer published) said about flint and steel,
"That's for the birds.I keep matches,lots of them around......."I'll need to find that issue.Still,that fint and steel
is good to know anyway.
A hint;If you are going to prepare a food cooking fire,don't use pine.Your food will taste like pine oil.
Manzanita,oak,or hard woods should be fine.
Yet those pine nuts are good food,but rich.
My best to you.

 

[MEinWV]

45-70,

You make some good points in this discussion that all of us should realize. The learning of primitive and/or survival skills is not to be taken that seriously in a sense. It is a method for us to gain the knowledge and confidence about our own abilities.

Yes, keep plenty of matches or lighters or magnesium starters handy, but the ancient knowledge is a must when all else fails. We need to know about creating potable water as well as keeping various water purification materials handy. We need to know about medicinal plants as well as keeping a supply of some modern medicinals.

Combine the best of both worlds. We all can get our hands on the modern items, but we need to come full circle and learn the old ways.

And, I think poor old Bear Grylls is not a good teacher. A person in those situations cannot afford to get hurt in the wilds by doing some of the stupid things he does. I know it is just a show and that he makes it more exciting, but if he keeps it up he is going to hurt himself. Someday he may end up like Steve Irwin.

This subject is large enough to support a forum! Keep it going!

Good luck!

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I am thinking maybe picture taking is a very common thing here in America. It has not been so for me, on our outings one of our rules has always been no modern devices is allowed. This cuts down on temptations to cheat at things like fire making. Not that emergency fire making skills aren't as important to me as the primitive skills. But I do not find it a challenge to use a battery and wires to start a fire. But all of this is to say I have no current pictures of anything other than just family vacation photos. I will see if anyone has a problem with me bringing a camera and taking some pictures at this spring/summer outing. As for my knapping abilities, they leave allot to be desired thus far I have only attempted this maybe three times and made very crude tips for spears. Smaller points elude me so far as they tend to flake into unusably small pieces, definitely not photo quality or something anyone can learn from. I really have only concentrated on learning for myself and teaching my family all that I know. Now my primitive shelters I will get pictures of. Since we camp in the same area every year we have shelters from past years that we are not allowed to reuse, but many are still standing, one of them is from my earliest attempts and is almost 4 years old this year. This shelter building and wild edibles are the two areas that I have developed most of my expertise. I still struggle with friction fires, sometimes for hours. :P And the hunting is only once a year and has to be done on private land with permits so as not to get shot by other hunters. We use a spot and stalk method that few others use around here preferring to sit in tree stands or blinds and wait for deer to cross thier paths. I instead like to follow tracks and we set traps along the way. As to what type of wood I use to make my bows and arrows from I have no knowledge of the different kinds of woods so I really don't know what the heck were using from one moment to the next. But I can say some of the most basic designs can be found on You Tube. In fact anyone interested in survival techniques should do some searches for videos on you tube. You'll be surprised at the quality of the information available as well as the quality of the videos themselves.

For instance here's one on Bow making. Keep in mind this is just one method for one type of bow as there are many methods for many different types.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUyDFbKTT40

I have watched some of those, but it's been a while. Thanks.

 

[MEinWV]

On the subject of Flint and Steel.

At a Mountain Man Encampment that I visited once, I observed some of the visitors learning to make fire for the first time. All of them could easily strike a match or flick a bic, but the look on their faces when they created fire was something special. It is the empowerment that I talked about. It would be the same as if you went back in time and handed a bic lighter to Daniel Boone. He would be thrilled with it until it ran out, but he would just go back to his flint and steel. If modern man runs out of matches or his bic quits on him, he's out of luck until he can purchase more "magic fire sticks"

Kinda funny don't you think?

 

[PBK]

"The civilized man has...a fine Geneva watch, but he has lost the skill to tell time by the sun. A Greenwich nautical almanac he has, and so being sure of the information when he wants it, the man in the street does not know a star in the sky. The solstice he does not observe; the equinox he knows as little; and the whole bright calendar of the year is without a dial in his mind."

— Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

 

[45-70Ranger]

45-70,

You make some good points in this discussion that all of us should realize. The learning of primitive and/or survival skills is not to be taken that seriously in a sense. It is a method for us to gain the knowledge and confidence about our own abilities.

Yes, keep plenty of matches or lighters or magnesium starters handy, but the ancient knowledge is a must when all else fails. We need to know about creating potable water as well as keeping various water purification materials handy. We need to know about medicinal plants as well as keeping a supply of some modern medicinals.

Combine the best of both worlds. We all can get our hands on the modern items, but we need to come full circle and learn the old ways.

And, I think poor old Bear Grylls is not a good teacher. A person in those situations cannot afford to get hurt in the wilds by doing some of the stupid things he does. I know it is just a show and that he makes it more exciting, but if he keeps it up he is going to hurt himself. Someday he may end up like Steve Irwin.

This subject is large enough to support a forum! Keep it going!

Good luck!

I have no problem with that.
For Steve Irwin,a few years ago,he was on Animal Planet.I think in the Sierras.
He was catching a baby rattler.He came very close to getting bit.
I then thought of the kids that might try to catch one themselves.
A complaint was made.All I got was "We'll let the producers know"....something like that.
I've ate rattler.It was good.I would do it again.
Yes sir on Bear Grylls.
You have a good weekend.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

***** posts gentlemen:

ever catch trout with your bare hands in order to eat? Or make a lethal blow gun for small game? How do you point your weapons /arrows/ spears ? For knapping I use a large nail, the soft iron grips better and can be made into a smaller working point for chipping./ flaking.

The Yaqui's use long thin triangular hardwood. They drill a hole in a stone to size their arrows with and also have a notch cut in one side. The notch is for filing the shafts down to the sizing hole dimension and also for straightening the shafts with heat. Make cordage and strings for your bow??

Incidentally, you forgot, "stalking the blue eyed scallop" for sea food. Euel Gibbons.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hehhe, hi my friends, I have been a nut on this since I was able to walk. I spent 6 months living off of the jungle between Quintana Roo and the then British Honduras, looking for Mayan ruins. I rather would not think of the things that I had to eat sheesh.

However the biggest danger in living off of the country isn't mentioned very much, Water first of all, and then Insects.

Let's get to talking, we have a lot to teach each other my friends, and I am all ears since you know what you are talking.about..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ernest, you post --->

Oh well not much you can do if people don't wanna be saved.
~~~~~~~~~~~

Reminds me of a story that a friend once told me. It was at the heighth of the hippy movement and he was in L.A. near large park. His attention was drawn to a hippy running across the lawn yelling " I don't want to be saved" Right behind him was a gentleman dressed in a white toga holding a sign saying "Jesus saves" yelling "Yes, you do".



I have had the unique opportunity of having been able to live some of my boyhood dreams of exploring, so please don't consider me a wise guy if I relate some of them and techniques as it relates to the posts.. .

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Luv, and excellent meals?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[45-70Ranger]

***** posts gentlemen:

ever catch trout with your bare hands in order to eat? Or make a lethal blow gun for small game? How do you point your weapons /arrows/ spears ?

The Yaqui's use long thin triangular hardwood. They cut a hole in a stone to size their arrows with and also have a notch cut in one side. The notch is for filing the shafts down to the sizing hole and also straightening the shafts with heat. Make cordage and strings for your bow??

Incidentally, you forgot, "stalking the blue eyed scallop" for sea food. Euel Gibbons.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hehhe, hi my friends, I have been a nut on this since I was able to walk. I spent 6 months living off of the jungle between Quintana Roo and the then British Honduras, looking for Mayan ruins. I rather would not think of the things that I had to eat sheesh.

However the biggest danger in living off of the country isn't mentioned very much, Water first of all, and then Insects.

Let's get to talking, we have a lot to teach each other my friends, and I am all ears since you know what you are talking.about..

Don Jose de La Mancha

Great !
Thanks.I was thinking of Euell Gibbons earlier.Just couldn't come up with his name.
Still remember him asking "Do you know you can eat a pine tree ?".
Whoever said "Gettin old ain't fer sissies." He or she was right.
Someone elsewhere, said if you can,practice skills in your backyard." Good practice point.
But,yes,the old and modern can be mixed.
Insects,yep,can be a hazard or dangerous.Don't necessarily have to be an animal.ie:classified as a "big game
animal".
Don Jose,I'm all ears too !

 

[truckinbutch]

Euell died of an ulcer if I remember Paul Harvey correctly , Bear is recovering from injuries he would have died from if his support staff hadn't been there to save him when things went wrong .
None the less they have shared knowledge with the public that we should heed .
Primative skills should be mastered in a casual environment against their need in an emergency.