GAS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Frankn]

What do you think has happened to the demand for oil with the growth in the Chinese and Indian economies. No conspiracy simple supply and demand math. Do you think that 5 years from now there will be more or fewer cars on the road in china and India?? Everyone wants to consume like an American with one earth worth of resources. Feel free to not consume any if you believe it is too expensive. Or just by some stock in Exxon ??

You mean Exxon with there $20 or was it $40 BILLION IN PROFIT. I think you just proved my point. Frank

 

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[dejapooh]

So Dega could you be saying our King could control the price of oil to some extent?MMMMMM.

If by Dega, you are talking to me, and if by King, you are talking about Obama, then yes, to SOME minor extent, the president can create policies that would discourage speculation in Oil and Gasoline. He would have to say, "If speculation in Oil and Gasoline reaches 6%, I will start to release oil from the reserve. Speculation creates nothing raises prices for everyone and hinders the economy and national defense." He wouldn't even have to DO anything. Just saying that he would do it would cause the speculators to leave the market to those who need to use it for the useful buying and selling of the commodity.

The fact is that he COULD do this, but hasn't and won't. For all of the yelling and screaming of socialist by the wing-nuts, the TRUTH is that Obama is very much dedicated to the Market working. Using the government to influence the market to be more efficient and effective runs against his Capitalist tenancies. He is FAR TOO REPUBLICAN to do anything like this, and that is our national loss. But at least the speculators are making a killing by adding another $.50 to $1 to each gallon of gas.

And please don't take this to mean that Obama is the cause of the current price of gas. Bush could have done this, Clinton too. No President has had the beans to stand up to the oil interests. Those who make money speculating have too much power. Oil companies make too much on Expensive oil, and so on.

 

[dejapooh]

From an ecological point of view, expensive oil reduces use world wide. Reduces pollution, decreases green house gasses and so on. The U.S. has the cheapest gasoline of just about any industrialized nation... That is one reason we are so addicted to it.

 

[UncleMatt]

I would just be happy if supply and demand were controlling prices in "free markets" when it comes to oil, but that is obviously no longer the case. Company profits simply don't want to suffer from the whims of the consumer, and they feel entitled to do whatever it takes to insure that those profits remain untouched, or even increase.

 

[dejapooh]

Wow! I was totally not expecting a logical answer. Thanks.
Crispin

You were not expecting logic from ME?

 

[dejapooh]

I would just be happy if supply and demand were controlling prices in "free markets" when it comes to oil, but that is obviously no longer the case. Company profits simply don't want to suffer from the whims of the consumer, and they feel entitled to do whatever it takes to insure that those profits remain untouched, or even increase.

Agreed, profit is one thing... What we see now is a bit beyond that... Then again, high gas prices cause reduced use, reduced traffic, more use of public transportation, higher efficiency in vehicles, more efficient exploration, Innovation in exploration that takes played out oil fields and makes them viable again... There are arguments to be made for higher prices...

 

[UncleMatt]

I always hear from Big Oil defenders that its the EPA that has halted construction of refineries, but as far as I know, it just would cost them more to build. New refineries are not forbidden at all, they just have to be built to current standards. What a shock! And they have plenty of money sitting in cash on the sidelines these days not to even notice that additional cost. But then they would no longer have the refinery bottleneck to justify their continued raping of the US consumer...

 

[0121stockpicker]

Folks the gasoline and oil markets are heavily regulated and have been looked at for collusion etc for decades and decades and decades. It is one of the largest Global markets. OPEC barely has any control on pricing anymore - too many non OPEC countries producing. The Global demand for oil has gone through the roof as the people of countries such as china has been expanding rapidly. Check out a chart if car ownership over the last 20 years in china. Meaning growth in global oil production has stalled. We are not "running out of oil" but demand continued to increase.

Anyone has the full right not to consume oil - no one is making anyone but. A Starbucks coffee costs more than a gallon of gasoline!!

As the rest of the developing world - china, India, Russia, brazil - continue to grow their economies as very rapid rates their demand for raw materials - oil, copper, iron ore, lumber, gold, silver, wheat, livestock, etc will continue to push prices upward. Oil and gasoline are by no means even the best performing commodities.

In the investment industry we called it the commodity super cycle. In the end just simple population growth, improved standard of living, supply and demand. Everyone in the world wants to live like an American and the world does not have the natural resources to do that. Something will have to give.

Just my 2 cents.

Best.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Stop all option selling on natural resourses.....

 

[0121stockpicker]

Stop all option selling on natural resourses.....

Then how are airlines going to hedge their fuel costs? Farmers their wheat prices.

Derivatives / options were originally created for very valuable ration economic reasons. You probably just want the "speculation" on commodities to stop. While I disagree on the basis that you are stopping legitimate capitalism / free market economy I will certainly state that the speculation should be heavily regulated to prevent manipulation. This is possible as many derivatives are very highly leveraged so a relatively small amount if capital can influence the markets.

Just my 2 cents. Best.

 

[Frankn]

You just can't stop using fuel! I live in the country. There is no mass transit here so fuel is a necessity.
Look what the oil companies have done to raise ALL prices. They sell Diesel, which is used to transport just about all goods at a higher price than hi test, even though it is cheaper to make than regular. The whole industry is one big profit ripoff. I think the $20billion profit they had was for one quarter of reporting. Frank

 

[0121stockpicker]

That's right. I hope you are not suggesting we nationalize or socialize things? Look at the profit of apple and google, etc.

And you answered the question on why the price isn't low - you need to use it. You and everyone else addicted to oil. And every day thousands of new cars hit the road over in china. Highly profitable, yes. Illegal or a conspiracy - no.

 

[0121stockpicker]

Actually helped to fund a company that converted vehicles to run off natural gas or propane instead if diesel or gasoline. If you have the infrastructure it's a real good option now a days.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Jim you might be right for your area, But I have been buying gas for my car since '53 and the lowest I have seen in Balto ,Md. is .25 at a discount Spur station.
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I worked at a Shell station in downtown Sand Bernardino, CA, while I was in the Air Force. I can remember, in 1970, the price at 19.9c/gallon at one point in time. If you paid more it was because your state government had higher taxes on gas than CA did. That's another thing most people don't realize, or maybe don't want to admit because it messes up their conspiracy theories, but the states make as much, or more, per gallon sold than the oil companies do...through the fuel tax.
And, diesel is more expensive because it contains more heat energy...fuel is valued by its energy content now days.
Jim

 

[dieselram94]

Does this mean my old diesel should not be blowing pure black smoke all the time? It is costly but it works wonders on the prius drivers. Obama stopping the Keystone pipeline, drilling in the gulf and anwar has a lot to do with the price jumping. How are these policies good for America? Answer they are not. Public transportation? A liberal's dream , everyone else's nightmare. As Frank mentioned those of us that live in the country must drive our personal trucks/cars. If Obama was serious about lowering prices he would stop all the things I mentioned prior. In my area the predominate fuel source to heat homes is oil......very archaic if you ask me. I heat exclusively with pellets, much cheaper. If we converted most of these homes to natural gas just think of the reduced demand on heating oil and kerosene would have on prices nationwide. Instead of us Americans having to accept a reduced standard of living how about we become proactive about new energy sources and newer technology to heat our homes. Just so you can see how much I am saving I figure to heat my home (about 2500 square feet) with oil would be about $3000 to $3500 per year. With pellets about $800 per year....something to think about.

 

[0121stockpicker]

Does this mean my old diesel should not be blowing pure black smoke all the time? It is costly but it works wonders on the prius drivers. Obama stopping the Keystone pipeline, drilling in the gulf and anwar has a lot to do with the price jumping. How are these policies good for America? Answer they are not. Public transportation? A liberal's dream , everyone else's nightmare. As Frank mentioned those of us that live in the country must drive our personal trucks/cars. If Obama was serious about lowering prices he would stop all the things I mentioned prior. In my area the predominate fuel source to heat homes is oil......very archaic if you ask me. I heat exclusively with pellets, much cheaper. If we converted most of these homes to natural gas just think of the reduced demand on heating oil and kerosene would have on prices nationwide. Instead of us Americans having to accept a reduced standard of living how about we become proactive about new energy sources and newer technology to heat our homes. Just so you can see how much I am saving I figure to heat my home (about 2500 square feet) with oil would be about $3000 to $3500 per year. With pellets about $800 per year....something to think about.

Check out geothermal heat pumps - that's a pretty cool new heating / cooling technology. Expensive upfront but energy is almost free after that.

 

[Frankn]

I worked at a Shell station in downtown Sand Bernardino, CA, while I was in the Air Force. I can remember, in 1970, the price at 19.9c/gallon at one point in time. If you paid more it was because your state government had higher taxes on gas than CA did. That's another thing most people don't realize, or maybe don't want to admit because it messes up their conspiracy theories, but the states make as much, or more, per gallon sold than the oil companies do...through the fuel tax.
And, diesel is more expensive because it contains more heat energy...fuel is valued by its energy content now days.
Jim

Jim be realistic about it. There is only so much"heat energy" in a bbl of oil. The fact is you can get more diesel from that bbl than gas. Go figure! Frank

 

[Frankn]

Check out geothermal heat pumps - that's a pretty cool new heating / cooling technology. Expensive upfront but energy is almost free after that.

I have been checking into heat pumps. When I built my house, I put 2000' of PEX tubing in the concrete slab that I poured. I heated it for years with a common HW heater, but the electric rates have constantly risen. Luckily, I insulated the walls with 4" of miramar fiberglass and 2" of EPS so it even exceeds todays standards. I have a spring house with about 30' of concrete troughs that is attached to the house, so maybe I can get away with out all the drilling. The flow of 58 degree water thru the troughs may be enough to heat and cool. I am still working on the numbers. Frank

 

[0121stockpicker]

I have been checking into heat pumps. When I built my house, I put 2000' of PEX tubing in the concrete slab that I poured. I heated it for years with a common HW heater, but the electric rates have constantly risen. Luckily, I insulated the walls with 4" of miramar fiberglass and 2" of EPS so it even exceeds todays standards. I have a spring house with about 30' of concrete troughs that is attached to the house, so maybe I can get away with out all the drilling. The flow of 58 degree water thru the troughs may be enough to heat and cool. I am still working on the numbers. Frank

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=747157"/>

Technology has come a long way. Many states also give you tax creds for installing. When I was in the finance industry one of the things I did was research companies who were developing / had developed efficient energy technologies. Did a lot of work with ghps. When I needed a new furnace I looked into them but I had way too much ledge on my property so drilling the holes was way too expensive. I spent a lot of time with climatemaster and waterfurnace. Both are good product. Please let me know how it goes. Best.

 

[Native Floridian]

The four major contributors to oil prices are: Global Supply, Global Demand, Oil inventory Demand, and speculative Interest. of these only Oil Inventory Demand is not self explanatory. Oil Inventory Demand is when a shortage is feared ie instability in a major producing nation, series of storms, political unrest etc. Inventories are then built up in anticipation of a future shortage.

All four of these factors have played a role in where oil prices are today. While many here believe speculation is the culprit, not so. While speculation was a factor in 04-06 era and again in the bust of 08, global supply and demand are the primary drivers of oil prices. Fundamentals continue to drive the oil markets.

The market for oil is global. As has been posted - with China, India and the Pac Rim coming online has led to a world wide demand that has lifted prices. Everyone in the world wants what we already have. As the rest of the world industrializes and moves to some version of Capitalism the demand will only increase.

While we are working to solve our own energy puzzle, that's only a small part of a much larger picture. It won't reduce prices. it will guarantee us an unbreakable supply line.

For those here calling for more regs on speculative trading - bad idea. it's called speculation for a reason. It is high risk. Survey says that most spec traders lose on far more trades than they win. Take away the profits that can be made by winning big and that money is going someplace else. Spec traders won't be there to take the other side of the bet when a farmer wants to sell his crop or an airline or trucker wants to lock in fuel prices. That more contracts are losers for speculators tells us, it is a bet. For the market to work there has to be takers on both sides.