Well, Cairos Burning, Wonder How Much Blood It Will Take......

[Ammonhotep]

To regard events in isolation is to see them incorrectly.

-Ammo

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Ammo, we have rules here....We have 6 moderators, if a thread violates our rules in the eyes of a mod it will either be corrected or deleted, it is mods choice what action to take on it.........

 

[Lafitte Deux]

Ammo,
It is for the reasons you stated above that this thread and others will probably be deleted.
The "political bias" runs throughout this forum and there are xenophobes aplenty.
Be assured that there are members who understand your statements and don't feel "talked down to".

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

I for one, feel this whole thing turned out better than it could have!
Yes, there was loss of life, but minute, compared to what it could have turned in to.
My worst fear, was the radicals would slaughter everyone, bombings, if not wmd's unleashed.
I am thankful, the ppls' voice was heard and hopefully, a new era in democracy and fairness may prevail.

 

[Rawhide]

Happy 4th of July people. Be glad we don't live in Egypt then. The real problem is we give notice to those silly people who have been fighting for thousands of years. It just brings the problem here. Take away the voice, and let them die a quiet death, Im gonna go cook some pork chops on the grill and be thankful we don't allow that crap over here in good ol America.

 

[Ammonhotep]

I for one, feel this whole thing turned out better than it could have!
Yes, there was loss of life, but minute, compared to what it could have turned in to.
My worst fear, was the radicals would slaughter everyone, bombings, if not wmd's unleashed.
I am thankful, the ppls' voice was heard and hopefully, a new era in democracy and fairness may prevail.

The radicals are and always have been the minority, thank goodness.

And while it turned out bigger than nearly everyone predicted, it also turned out better than many predicted. Hopefully things will stay positive, as you say.

-Ammo

 

[Ammonhotep]

Happy 4th of July people. Be glad we don't live in Egypt then. The real problem is we give notice to those silly people who have been fighting for thousands of years. It just brings the problem here. Take away the voice, and let them die a quiet death, Im gonna go cook some pork chops on the grill and be thankful we don't allow that crap over here in good ol America.

We are those silly people who have been fighting for thousands of years. Welcome to humanity.

And some of us do live in Egypt. Some of us care about the millions of good and kind people who live in Egypt, just as we care for those of our own countrymen.

-Ammo

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

I've been reading a lot of different news stories on the whole matter. News, like art, seems to be very subjective.

From O backtracking, well, maybe trying to keep a low profile, whilst backtracking, and the 1600 comments that flew up, as to : "Americans should be taking notes, as to Egypts example".
Obama treads cautiously on Egypt leader's ouster

To the Pm explaining to Kerry, this wasn't a coupe. I've wondered why Kerry, all of a sudden recently, started traveling abroad and attempting foreign relations. Who is he, they should feel need, to answer to him?
Egypt foreign minister to Kerry: no "military coup"


And now, major media censorship, which in a way, I can find understandable, given the circumstances.
Rights groups decry Egypt media crackdown

I tell you what really gets me......

"In a statement, the Brotherhood said the shutdowns were a return to the "repressive" policies of Egypt's "dark ... ages."
ARE THEY KIDDING? Repressiveness? This from a group who publicly police, humiliate, beat, kidnap, torture, and kill?
Do they not see their own hand in the "dark ages" when THEY are oppressing education and basic human rights. Most knows how it goes for womens' rights, "cow, goat, dog, woman". We have high rank status, no?

"The Arab Network for Human Rights Information called the moves "a clear violation of the law and stifling freedom of expression." The group, based in Cairo, said while some programs aired on these stations carried at times "hate speech" and incited Morsi supporters to violence, that does not justify shutting the stations down."
But in Canada, you can be arrested and jailed, for inciting "HATE" and attempting to get others to join in.

"Over the past year, they have put on the air talk show guests, including hard-line clerics, who have made threats against opposition figures or depicted them as anti-Islam, including one cleric who called for their death."
In America, the secret service would have already detained that cleric, if those words were spoke against our president, (I would think). Ok, if you were just some joe schmoe,(or ted nugent) you'd definantly be visited, if not detained.


I just find it so ironic, that a radical hate inciting, human rights violating group, can cry such "foul", now that the tables have turned, and the ppl are telling them STOP, NO MORE!
I try to always remember, when attempting to judge another or criticize, that ANYTHING I might can ever say against another person, could also be TRUE of ME, at one time in my life or another. There but for the grace of....... So please don't think, that making judgments, is something I take lightly.

I'm not trying to be political or religious here. More trying to understand and keep open dialogue going, so perhaps we (maybe more, I) can become more aware and knowledgeable.



eta: I think a good slogan would be:
Real men, don't shoot little girls in the head, because they want to go to school.

 

[Frankn]

Moderate Islam has gained a victory (as it has LONG been the predominate view in Egypt), and you're calling it a cult?

I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about, on multiple levels.

What are the prevailing religious views in Egypt? What are the various constituencies that combined to oust Mursi? What would be the result of nullifying the Camp David Accords? And why do you suppose all that money is inextricably linked to US contractors? And what percentage is actually for aid and development projects?

Just some questions for you to ponder and (hopefully) research.

-Ammo

You don't seem to get the point. You act as if nothing had been given to them. They were basically given the jets and tanks. They cost them nothing and freed their money to spend on their people. There are two branches of Islam there that hate each other. In the Koran it states to kill the infidels ( non believers) and each branch sees the other as infidels. As soon as one side has won out they immediately see us as infidels. Get the picture? Frank...

 

[Lafitte Deux]

Frankn, have you read the Koran? If so, please cite specific references to the "us" they see as infidels. Are you referring to the USA?
Also, please point out any section of the Camp David Accords in reference to arming Islamists. I can't seem to find the passage.

Camp David Accords - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you

 

[Crispin]

I have done free consult work for a physician friend of mine that resides in Egypt. Unfortunately, communication with him has been sparse as of late. For those who care, I would throw my lot in with Ammonhotep's any day of the week. We are lucky and blessed to have such a scholar of diverse nature among our forum. Let him speak. He is not as rude as plenty of others I have seen.

Sincerely,

Crispin

 

[izer54]

This I fear is just the beginning. Egypt is a hot bed for the Muslim Brotherhood and it will only end bad. We need to stop funding and providing hardware to countries such as Egypt who will eventually use it against us. It's time we strengthen our borders and forget political correctness. It's high time we as a nation start calling a spade a spade...

You said it man! I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Crispin]

Anybody know what the term "A spade a spade" refers to? I'll give you a hint...racism at its base.

 

[dieselram94]

Anybody know what the term "A spade a spade" refers to? I'll give you a hint...racism at its base.

Crispin, as you know I am not racist. I was not intending that as racial reference at all, but rather a figure of speech...

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

Oh crispin, who taught you that?
They were mis-informed, or passed on info, based on anothers' misperception. sorry bout that.
It's original meaning was referring to a digging tool, not a person/peoples.

and sorry I referenced wiki, was 1st to come up.
To call a spade a spade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess I should add, that yes, I am aware, their are sick twisted minds, that have taken it upon themselves to mis-apply the phrase as to insult/belittle others. When I read the phrase, i didn't see it as a racial slur. I guess it just depends on where your mind is conditioned to refer/default back to, as far as meanings of things go.

 

[Frankn]

As I recall as a kid, there was an expression,"Always call a spade, a spade." It Meant be honest about what you see. Hay that was back in the 40's. Frank...

Sorry, no regular cards on my thumb drive.

 

[Frankn]

Frankn, have you read the Koran? If so, please cite specific references to the "us" they see as infidels. Are you referring to the USA?
Also, please point out any section of the Camp David Accords in reference to arming Islamists. I can't seem to find the passage.

Camp David Accords - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you

First off, It has been many years since I have seen that book, so you are going to have to find it yourself. Apparently you have read the book so you should know that all non believers of there particular brand of Islam are infidels. One only has to look at that incident in Syria where they took that Priest out and beheaded him in front of the villagers that were cheering and taking pictures of the event. It's a harsh 'religion'.
Second, I did not mention the Camp David accords Frank...

Never more

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Anybody know what the term "A spade a spade" refers to? I'll give you a hint...racism at its base.

The origin of the saying dates back 2 thousand years and has nothing to do with racism....

What is the origin of the expression "call a spade a spade"? Is this a politically correct expression?
Let's get two things straight here: first, the expression to call a spade a spade is thousands of years old and etymologically has nothing whatsoever to do with any racial sentiment. The second is that in spite of this, some people think it is a racial statement, and therefore it should be treated with some caution.

To call a spade a spade, which means, ironically for this discussion, 'to speak plainly and bluntly; to speak without euphemisms', is first found in Ancient Greece. The exact origin is uncertain; the playwright Menander, in a fragment, said "I call a fig a fig, a spade a spade," but Lucian attributes the phrase to Aristophanes. Later, Plutarch notes that "The Macedonians are a rude and clownish people who call a spade a spade." (It is worth noting that the Greek word translated as "spade" seems actually to mean something like "bowl" or "trough"; the "spade" may be based on a Renaissance mistranslation. In this case the original expression was "to call a bowl a bowl," and thus the "spade" expression is "only" 500, rather than 2,500, years old.)

After it first appeared in English in the sixteenth century, the saying became quite common, and was used in various forms and allusions. My favorite English example:

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/?date=19970115


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[Bum Luck]

We are those silly people who have been fighting for thousands of years. Welcome to humanity.

And some of us do live in Egypt. Some of us care about the millions of good and kind people who live in Egypt, just as we care for those of our own countrymen.

-Ammo

Americans do too, Ammonhotep. I had an engineering TA from Egypt, and I was always welcome at their home, and treated like family.

There has been a lot of comment on Egypt here, and I'd like to ask you:
1: The Billions in aid to Egypt: I understand that the F-16s and military aid has gone to the army, has it not? Not to The Muslim Brotherhood.

2: I take it that the Muslim Brotherhood hasn't exactly been happy with the army's actions lately. Is that true?

3: Here's a statement from House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Mich.). He called the military in Egypt the “one stable factor there.” The military “should continue to be rewarded” for its stabilizing presence, Rogers said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

If these statements are true, then it looks as if the foreign aid to Egypt has been a good plan.

Think of the alternative: Total chaos and civil war, possibly igniting the whole MidEast - out of which it would be hard to predict the outcome.

Please bear in mind that the Suez Canal and Egyptian SUMED Pipeline carries 2 million barrels of crude oil each day, critical to the world's economy and security.

Bottom line: Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood is out, and the army, which has benefited from our $1.5 billion aid a year, has done it. Morsi was a democratically elected president, and so our position regarding him has been delicate, to say the least. Remember, Egypt is a sovereign country.

We (the world's economic interest) has squeaked another one out, for now.

As I said in another post, diplomacy is a tough game, made just as complicated as really smart men can make it. And the stakes are tremendous. This is the world's highest stake poker game.

Here's some math: The US uses 2.5 x 1012 barrels of crude a year. Dividing the 1.5 billion in foreign aid per year to Egypt equals $1 for every 1,672 barrels of oil, or .06 cents per barrel. Considering the huge costs of waging war (the alternative to diplomacy), that look s like a huge bargain to me.

On top of that, the Suez canal oil shipments are only 16% of the goods shipped through there, which divides the .06 cents cost by 7.

The cost is really only a small part of the down side - the world social and governmental upheaval that could result from a destabilized Egypt may be catastrophic, maybe cataclysmic.

How am I doing, Ammo?

 

[Crispin]

Okay, I take back the comment about spades. I was wrong.