Losing permission on private private property...interesting debate

[Deerhunter24]

So, this year I've been striving harder for gaining permission on private property. Let's face it, it may be your only hope for virgin property...or at the very least its your best bet in my opinion.

I have been turned down 3 places this year because of someone in the house "just getting a metal detector." For this...I blame Cabela's and Bass Pro. Its probably the first major stores that are advertising detectors for sale right now. All those sales ads and catalogs are creating more buzz for a hobby. I certainly hope it doesn't ruin the hobby.

I've ran into a few people who are newer to the hobby, dig huge holes with their spades shovels, filling them in crappy (if they even fill them in at all).

Anyway, on my last post about finding an 1863 Indianhead in a farmer's field, fellow TNetter Wallhangers commented on my post that its a nice move to share my finds with the Landowner. This was because I gave them a skeleton key and a crotal bell that I found in one of their fields.

I like the post, but "buyer beware" it can bite ya in the butt!

Wallhangers...its not always a smart move. This is the 2nd time I've tried this and its working out fine now, but beware that its not always the case. I really want to share this story with fellow TNetters so that hopefully the same doesn't happen to you.





Let me share a quick story with you about a place I hunted a few months ago.


Got a neighbor who I've known for years. His parents own the house right around the corner from me, its been in their family for 100 years. House dates back to the 1870's or slightly earlier. Beautiful front yard, lots of property. This site is literally 3/4 of a mile from my house.

Anyway, I've wanted to hunt this place for years, but never asked. I finally asked earlier this year and they said yeah. Now usually I don't do this, but I figured I'd try something different this year since I actually know the family.

When I asked the homeowner to hunt...he said responded with the usual statement..."sure, but if you find a million dollars buried we have to split it."

I responded like this..."Well I'm sure that wont happen, but I wish. However, usually if I find a cool old coin, I'll get you one just like it."

Now usually I don't necessarily show people everything, but I have probably only hunted 8 or 10 different properties with mixed success. So its not like I've made tons of great finds on private property. Not in the past anyway, but its starting to pick up this year.

So anyway, i hunt 2 hours that day in the front yard of his home. Keep in mind...like most people, he didn't believe I was going to even find anything. Well, I kind of wanted to prove a point so I showed him what I found when I was done.

In 2 hours, I had one of the better first days at a house that I can remember.

I found 14 coins in the front yard. 1 was a zinc penny. The other 13 coins were all good finds.

I found 10 wheat pennies, 6 of which were from 1910-1919.

I also found 3 Indianheads...1879, 1886, 1888.

So I show him and his wife the coins. They cant believe it. But I reassure him that I'll get him a few indianheads the same.

Well to shorten the story up...It took me 2 weeks to get the 3 Indians in Good-Very Good condition. Cost me $25 plus gas driving to get them. So probably $35.

Keep in mind...I did this to establish trust...repoire...with the homeowners. Plus, it was my buddies parents house...I've known them for years. So i figured I'd try something different and that they would probably key me in to other hotspots in the neighborhood.

Anyway, I go back a few weeks later and drop the coins off. I didn't even take my detector back, but asked if I could come back later in the week. He was like..."Sure go ahead." Then he asked..."What do I owe you for these?" I said..."nothing man, I appreciate you letting me come out here."

So I go back like 4 days later. Guy comes out of the house. He won't even look me in the eyes. He's staring off in the distance and is like..."Well, the wife is kind of perturbed (sp)...Our granddaughters just got metal detectors and she doesn't think its fair if you're out here finding it all."


So I played it cool. Thanked him for him for the opportunity and left.

Man I was so pissed. Keep in mind I spent $35 on coins for them, and have been laid off from work for the last 2 months.

So I get even more pissed at myself after I left because even though I acted like I wasn't upset, I didn't say anything to leave the door open for a possible return later.

For instance...I wanted to say..."Well would it be okay if I stop back next year and ask again?" Because lets be honest people...9 out of every 10 metal detectors is sitting in a closet or attic right now gathering dust. Most people that buy them start with something cheap...don't dig a pot of gold on their first outing, and then hang up the detector saying to themselves..."what a waste of time!"

Also, I wanted to tell the owner this..."just so you and your wife know...the coins I'm diggin are 5-8" deep+. These aren't coins that your 10 year old granddaughters are going to find with their $50 dollar radio shack detectors. That's why my detector cost $1600! So that I find them."

Also, I wanted to them..."Trust me...I didn't find it all in a single 2 hour hunt. There is enough land here for me to search 40 hours year for the next 50 years!"

But again, I thought of all this later.

The reason for my rant is 2-fold.

1.) I haven't really repeated the story that much, but since TNetters dont know the family I can rant a little and get my frustration out.

2.) Be careful of being TOO honest. It might come back to haunt ya.


I can't help thinking...when did these grand kids get detectors?

Have they had them for awhile and neglected to use them? I seriously doubt this because the grand parents kind of looked at me wierd when I mentioned "Metal Detecting."

I honestly don't even think they actually OWN a detector yet. I think they saw what I found...want to buy one for themselves and see what they find. I pass this house 3 times a day because I have to pass it to get to pavement. In the last month, I haven't seen anyone out there detecting yet. Who knows.

What may have happened could have been as simple as this...

I find a few coins in their yard...they tell their oldest son who lives next door (they have 2 sons/I'm friends with the younger one). His kids overhear and want a metal detector. Grandma hears that and decides she doesn't want me to find it all.

I understand all that. I'm not mad at that. Hey man, family is SUPPOSED to come first. Honestly, I'm probably more upset with myself. If hadn't have been so forthcoming...then this wouldn't even be an issue. I'd probably be detecting over there right now instead of typing on the computer...trying to figure out a new spot to go.


Any thoughts? Similiar experiences?



DH24 (Chuck)

 

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[calisdad]

Why not go back and offer to help them learn how to use the detectors that they probably won't ever get? It keeps your foot in the door. People change their minds. It could swing back in your favor. I also wouldn't worry about being too honest. Sometimes it takes awhile but it pays off in the long run.
BTW- I think most would have just split the finds right on the spot and not gone out and bought others.

Good Luck-

 

[Jim C.]

I feel your pain BUT ya gotta let it go. Having detected many old homes and dealing with various humanoids. Some are just jerks. Ya take what ya get and move on to the next one. Most of the folks that let you detect and see what ya find are real nice about it only a few will be jerks like you encountered. But hey, ya gotta remember it is their property. Just be more cautious on what you say and do as far as the finds go. You can usually read people pretty good as to whether or not they wanna take your finds and 9 times outta 10 if they are letting you detect their property they wont care but are just interested in what ya are finding. Also, you could gain your money that ya spent by selling that 1879 ya found on ebay. That be my 2 pennies.

 

[fistfulladirt]

Yep forgive and forget - too many old spots to hit...that happened to me a few times. I recall a mid 1800's yard I hunted, I went back a year later to hunt the farm field that was an old cemetary site (gasp), plowed over for years tho. The old farmer told me "afraid not - the grandkids bought a detector" - and now they be "bounty hunters"!
I've offered finds to homeowners, usually all the wheaties, sometimes they're thrilled, other times they decline, as they couldn't care less about coins or old relics. I've even offered IH's to owners and they just weren't interested in the least. HH, ffd

 

[postalgriff]

yeah I agree...there's all different kinds of people, and you should just move on. I had a similar experience in a yard where I dug my first seated. the lady told me she had a coin collection that got stolen by a grand kid, so when I went back I brought her a small coin collection of some oldies in a nice coin purse only to be turned down for another hunt I've heard the "grand kids or kids have a detector" thing more times than I want to think about. Brent and I stopped at a place one time and they said they had just got one that day and were getting ready to hit it right then I too struggle with showing the homeowners everything I find because I'm worried about them taking them like they did with Brent's 1916 walker last year. Just yesterday I had a homeowner ask if she could keep the ring I found (which is a first) but I knew I was taking the risk when I showed it to her, and then in that case how can you say no. I just wish I would of had my camera with me to snap a picture of it first. When I show the owners my finds I usually say something like "these are some of the types of things I was finding" and then will focus attention on a couple of relics or something else interesting. Had one person ask for a merc I dug, and I was able to come back the next day and give them one just like it (not dug) only because the dug ones are more special to us than just one from a collection ya know. but hey you cant keep that stuff forever I guess. My new son-in-law is wearing one of my dug gold rings for his wedding band right now. I still have never sold any of my finds but have given quite a bit away, and feel pretty good about that.

 

[sjarchangel]

I may be criticized for saying this, BUT . . . I always tell the property owner that they’re welcome to anything I find! ;-) . . . most show no interest in wanting anything . . . UNLESS you’re dumb enough to show them something worth $$ (e.g. silver, gold, rings etc). Chances are you won’t be allowed back then anyway, so I ALWAYS carry copper LH pennies, new dimes, quarters, a pop-top, and bottle cap or two that I’ve found previously and look “dirty” to show IF ASKED. Sorry if this offends anyone, but sometimes you have to be intelligent . . . we’ve spent a lot of time and money to pursue our hobby.

BoBo’s “Modern Coin Magic” is an excellent book.

;-)

 

[Mike from MI]

My 2 cents worth.......

Most of the time I don't offer to show them my finds as they usually say have fun and keep what ya find.
If they mention they have lived there for generations, I tell them that if I find something that may be a family eirloom I will give it to them. This usually means a spoon with an initial or something like that.

For those that are out buying the kids detectors, most will be in the closet as they need teaching to use them right and they get board fast digging nails and the like.

Again don't blame Bass Pro and the like as Wally world and many others sell those cheapies that will mostly end up in the closet. The ones that are competition are those that buy a good one and want to find old stuff or gold stuff.

I would also say be happy for the time you had there and the finds you made. Don't be upset. maybe offer to help the kid out to learn the hobby and we both know they will mostly dig the shallow scraps at first while you are digging the deepies. But oh how cool it will be whan the kid finds their first merc dime!

 

[postalgriff]

I may be criticized for saying this, BUT . . . I always tell the property owner that they’re welcome to anything I find! ;-) . . . most show no interest in wanting anything . . . UNLESS you’re dumb enough to show them something worth $$ (e.g. silver, gold, rings etc). Chances are you won’t be allowed back then anyway, so I ALWAYS carry copper LH pennies, new dimes, quarters, a pop-top, and bottle cap or two that I’ve found previously and look “dirty” to show IF ASKED. Sorry if this offends anyone, but sometimes you have to be intelligent . . . we’ve spent a lot of time and money to pursue our hobby.

BoBo’s “Modern Coin Magic” is an excellent book.

;-)

to me its not a matter of being dumb enough to show them good finds, it's the conviction to want to be honest. I don't show them finds from another place and try to lead them to believe they came from their property. If I didn't care about being a honest person I would listen to the voices in my head telling me to drop one of the creative lies that seem to brew in there. I want to be able to enjoy this hobby guilt free ya know, and I always feel obligated to show them the types of things I'm looking for. I justify not showing them everything by choosing my words carefully as not to lie. interesting debate.

 

[sjarchangel]

Deception of any kind is still deception or a "knowledge lie"

. . . and I did say "IF ASKED"

:-)

 

[postalgriff]

Deception of any kind is still deception or a "knowledge lie"

. . . and I did say "IF ASKED"

:-)

I hear ya. It's been a struggle for me over the last few years to be able to find a way to be honest and be at peace with how to deal with the homeowners. Obviously to each his own, but I'm comfortable with my justification process and sleep pretty good at night. Best case scenario is when they say "have fun and keep whatever ya find" Brent had a lady bring a bowl and told him to dump all of his finds in it so she could go through them...lol.

 

[Deerhunter24]

Ironically, the one thing is did say to the homeowner, which I forgot until a few mentioned it...was that I'd be more than happy to come back and give them some tips on how to hunt, dig nice holes, etc. He didn't seem all that interested.

Also, this is the first problem I've encountered on private property. I mean, I've been turned down to hunt, but never after going out to a place. Usualy people are more than happy to have me come back becuase I leave the place cleaner than I found it.

Also, not sure if I mentioned it, but the homeowner never gave any inclination at all that he wanted any of my finds. I basically just offered to get him a few indianheads. It was the first time I've EVER done that and I felt like it bit me in the ass. If I woulda just said..."Yeah I had fun, found a couple wheat pennies" then it may not have been a problem for me coming back. Again, the reason I offered in this case was 2 primary reasons. First, I've known the family for over 20 years. Second, I was trying to create some good faith because I've known them for a long time.

also this house has been in their family for generations.

As for the new place I've been hunting, I have given them 3 relics, which they have seemed to appreciate. Its also the first 3 of my ACTUAL finds that I have ever given away. I have always kept my finds.

Like a few mentioned, gotta move on and find new places to hunt. It just sucks when it was such a potentially good situation...being that the house is so close and farm encompasses 300 acres. They had an apple orchard that's now a field, a few old home sites that are now just fields. Gotta be tons of good stuff hiding in the dirt.

Either way, I did enjoy my time out there. It was nice enough for them to let me come out there at all. I believe the door is open though becuase its not like I showed that it bothered me at all.
Just wanted to vent a little. I appreciate you all listening. Sure most have been through similar situations. Thanks for all the posts.

Chuck

 

[Jim C.]

I hear ya. It's been a struggle for me over the last few years to be able to find a way to be honest and be at peace with how to deal with the homeowners.
[/quote]

That is the hardest thing about detecting other peoples old homes. Being honest and keeping your integrity so you can live with yourself. Doing the right thing.

I've learned over time the best thing to say for me is..."I'll let ya know if anything neat pops up." And I will. I always tell em up front I like to try and find old coins that might have been dropped way back when. So anything "neat" would be something besides a coin. It goes back to reading the home owner. Most, if they are letting you dig up their yard, will not take what ya find. Now, if I ever find a gold coin my integrity may fly out the window. I hope I would do the right thing but that would be a tough one. Thats probably why God hasn't ever let me find one. He won't let me be tempted beyond what I can handle.

 

[teverly]

Generally if they dont ask to see stuff i dont offer to show it..if they dont mention splitting things niether do i...why put yourself in that position..i dont feel it is dishonest and when they ask what i normally find i usually explain that sometimes i find old coins ,toys ect,but they generally are not worth a lot...and so far i have had no problems...
i have been doing this for 15yrs and never had any trouble.....1 guy where i hunted an old school i tried to show him what i found and he did not even care...just said as long as you ask for permission before you hunt have fun.....
There are really still plenty of old places to search....just have to do a little research....just let it go and move on to the next target...

 

[Michiganne]

Now, if I ever find a gold coin my integrity may fly out the window. I hope I would do the right thing but that would be a tough one. Thats probably why God hasn't ever let me find one. He won't let me be tempted beyond what I can handle.

Too funny, Jim!!
Interesting debate. I think you have to find the line between not necessarily disclosing everything and being honest enough to live with yourself.

I'm sorry that your generosity backfired on you, dh.
HH

 

[lostcauses]

The people were probably talking to others about what you found at the place. Of course some fool probably said " That is only what they showed you". Some fools (of course with out experience) think an MD'er is making a lot of money. Simply put why else would some one spend 2 hours swinging and digging a place The real world don't get it. LOL

Always show all the trash also. It accounts for time....

 

[tony12165]

So I'm here to learn how to properly ask how to metal detect on private property. And I'm seeing honest help and dishonest help. (I will not point fingers) But I'm new to this stuff getting a start with a cheesy detector I know. But my wife just died and I need to start cheap and somewhere to relax and move on.
But I also think it's just as easy for land/property owners and such to come here and read up. Don't you think they'd have second thoughts if they read about the dishonest detecting people You need to think before you post. Cause I costs nothing for land owners to research also.

 

[Mike from MI]

Some more thoughts..... My local dealer in Plainwell says since the show Diggers he is selling detectors like hot cakes. Blame the reality TV. Also notice these TV shows never talk about proper digging ethics etc..... Let this one go and go get a better one!

 

[Giant056]

Mike that's great news to hear of Al's prosperity from the show diggers I have had people change their minds for permission like that before.

 

[The Recovery Agents]

000

 

[Deerhunter24]

Just noticed the comments. This post is almost 2 years old, but there is a follow-up story that was also irritating.


For those of you who read the story, I mentioned that I was friends with the YOUNGER brother. The OLDER brother was the one who has the 2 young children who had supposedly gotten metal detectors.


Well, according to the YOUNGER brother...the 2 daughters never got any metal detectors. Once his OLDER brother heard what I found...he told his father not to let me out there anymore and that he was going to get his daughters metal detectors. Two years later...still no metal detectors.

The WORST part of this story...the OLDER brother was at a party last fall and I guess my name was brought up in some conversation.

He persisted to go on and tell a few of my friends a story about how I came out to his parents house metal detecting...dug all sorts of "priceless relics, old coins, and family heirlooms." Then he went on to say that his father had "OFFERED TO BUY THEM OFF ME FOR A LARGE SUM OF MONEY," but I refused...wouldn't sell them to his father...and his father had no choice but to KICK ME OFF OF HIS PROPERTY.

When I heard this I was indeed flabbergasted. Ahh...this is not even close to the truth. There is absolutely no truth to his statements other than the fact that I went to his parents metal detecting.


This person spreading lies doesn't do a good thing for my reputation or our hobby. Fortunately, most people know he's full of poop!

I did kind of forget about this...had no intention of posting anything else on this topic, until I noticed a few recent comments that put this back on the 1st page of stories...so it reminded me of this incident last summer.

I can tell you this...Hurts a lot more to hear negative, untrue things about oneself...than it does losing permission to hunt a piece of property.




Deerhunter24