Need ID on old Turkish(?) bone dagger

[gino22]

Stopped by a TS in the boonies today, picked this up for $75. My gut tells me it's Ottoman Turkish. The Ottoman stuff on eBay is similar in terms of shape with similar sheath and blade patterns, but have not come across anything with similar inlays on the handle. They appear to be bone, ebony, mother of pearl, turquoise, and perhaps malachite? The handle design and materials come off as maybe Native American, but I know nothing about NA art (or Arabic art for that matter), so I am lost. Can anyone clue me in?

My gut feeling is turn of the century Turkish something or other.

 

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[billn1956]

I could be wrong,,will not be the first time,but if it was mine I would take it to a museaum to be looked at,I am thinking early 1800 maybe late 1700 time wise, that is some first class hand work.Would really like for you to find out and let us know.I know there are going to be some to disagree with me maybe evan a lot but it is my honest opion and would not have been able to walk away from it. good luck if you put it on ebay let us know so we can watch.

 

[gino22]

I could be wrong,,will not be the first time,but if it was mine I would take it to a museaum to be looked at,I am thinking early 1800 maybe late 1700 time wise, that is some first class hand work.Would really like for you to find out and let us know.I know there are going to be some to disagree with me maybe evan a lot but it is my honest opion and would not have been able to walk away from it. good luck if you put it on ebay let us know so we can watch.

Thanks for the input. I do think the craftsmanship on the handle is a cut above most I've been able to research on eBay. The blade and sheath give me pause, though. Blade looks pretty modern with simple engraving, as does the sheath. Working on getting the Arabic script translated, should have a rough translation by tomorrow.

Unsure if I'll be putting this on eBay since the guy who is translating insinuated he'd be interested in buying. We will see.

 

[diggummup]

I don't know much about thiese particular types of knives. Not saying yours is but, every time I find a Turkish style dagger like this, it seems like a cheap tourist or made for export item. The blades just seem thin and bendable almost. That being said, I did find a similar knife to yours that sold for $255 but there is really no other information about it. Here is the link and a photo- ANTIQUE TURKISH JAMBIYA DAGGER old Islamic knife sword

 

[gunsil]

Sorry Gino, it's a tourist grade piece. The blade is crummy and that is not engraving the design is stamped in. I doubt it is more than fifty years old. The good ones have much better made blades, and scabbards with silver or even gold inlay. The early 1800s and earlier ones have blades made of wootz damascus steel. It is also small for a real weapon. The one Dig posted has a much nicer made blade but is still a tourist item. These are available in every casbah in the middle east. You may get a profit from it if you find a buyer who likes it, and doesn't really know the market on these things. You could post it on Blade Forum and get some more educated ideas there. Good luck with it!!

 

[tamrock]

My Dad traveled the world in the 60's and early 70's working in the Ag Chemical field and he brought me back a knife like that maybe around 1972ish ? He got it some place in the middle east I think. It was a brand new knife. I'm not seeing the skill and workmanship on what would be of the Ottoman Empire era. Still for $75.00 on it you will for sure make money on it. I'd hold it till next fall to list it for sale as we are getting in to yard sale season and folks who would give top dollar on things like are saving their money for what they believe they will find in the spring & summer time yard sale treasure hunting season. Yours I believe could be from as old as just after WWII era to around the Korean war era and I'm not all that sure of that as, I'm no expert? It for sure is way better made then the newer crap you'd find these days. Nice Find!

 

[billn1956]

if you stamp metal metal like the blade you get distorition,I do not see any sign of it on the blade, I am trying to find online,there is a history of knife with exsamples witch has 1 alot like this one,maybe you can find it.

 

[GibH]

A quick google image search turned up these:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...rian+Magdali+Jambiya+Dagger&tbm=isch&imgdii=_

Another link to a forum discussion with pictures:
Ethnographic Arms & Armour - The Syrian Jambiya/Khanjar

 

[gunsil]

if you stamp metal metal like the blade you get distorition,I do not see any sign of it on the blade, I am trying to find online,there is a history of knife with exsamples witch has 1 alot like this one,maybe you can find it.

There are thousands of knives with stamped words or designs out on the blades. It does not distort the steel if done properly. Heck, most pocket and hunting knives have the company that made them's name stamped on the blade. Same for military issue knives.

 

[gino22]

A quick google image search turned up these: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=625&oq=JAMBIYA+DAGGER+&gs_l=img.12..0j0i24.3062.3062.0.4939.1.1.0.0.0.0.46.46.1.1.0....0...1ac.2.39.img..0.1.45.5rxMkBbY_m0&q=JAMBIYA%20DAGGER#hl=en&q=Syrian+Magdali+Jambiya+Dagger&tbm=isch&imgdii=_ Another link to a forum discussion with pictures: Ethnographic Arms & Armour - The Syrian Jambiya/Khanjar

That's definitely the style. How did you come up with this? Reverse image lookup?

Handles are virtually identical on these, but my blade and scabbard seem inferior to the examples on these sites. Wonder if it's mixed and matched.

Still waiting on translation, will let you guys know what the writing says.

All evidence points toward this being a modern piece. Wish it was the real deal, but at least the handle is up to snuff and I can make a little money.

Thanks everyone!

 

[billn1956]

That is all true BUT tourst trade knifes normally you do not see that kind of money being spent to make them,also look at the craftsman work I see no voids bewteen the diffarnt metrials an no resin or other media being used just serious attion to detail. We can not call it a tourist knife we have all seen how cheap they are made,to hang on a wall or for kids to play with.Look at the blade it is heavy enough to stand up to many years of use.I think it is hand made by a craftsman,not a cheap piece of turiost crap.And just so you know it is impooable to stamp metal and not destort it.

 

[billn1956]

Guess I should use speel check or slow down,thanks to the speeling police for not hammering me.

 

[gino22]

That is all true BUT tourst trade knifes normally you do not see that kind of money being spent to make them,also look at the craftsman work I see no voids bewteen the diffarnt metrials an no resin or other media being used just serious attion to detail. We can not call it a tourist knife we have all seen how cheap they are made,to hang on a wall or for kids to play with.Look at the blade it is heavy enough to stand up to many years of use.I think it is hand made by a craftsman,not a cheap piece of turiost crap.And just so you know it is impooable to stamp metal and not destort it.

I agree, and I'm not equating modern with tourist piece. It is definitely well crafted. The blade is nice, just not as ornate or old as the more desirable ones I've been able to research. There isn't the wootz grain to the steel, which looks comparable to modern (by which I mean no more than 100 years old) steel blades.

The ones that look most like mine were made in the past 60-70 years, and sell for 2-300 generally. The blades are more ornate and the scabbards are nicer, though.

Still not sure what I have, lots of research to do.

 

[diggummup]

Maybe take a little #000 (extra fine) steel wool and get the rust off the blade.

 

[gino22]

Still no word on translation... I think my guy got cold feet. I will try someone else. I suspect the writing indicates region of manufacture, which might help me put a date on it. My money is still on it being a mid-range 20th century piece. Barring some miracle, I don't think it will realize more than $100 on eBay, so I'll hold onto it and see if I can negotiate a trade with someone at the local antique market.

Thanks again for all the help, it was a real education!

 

[uzman]

long live the Ottoman