Question about MDing at Schools

[TexasDeere]

Question about MD'ing at Schools

I have only been metal detecting for a couple of months and have focused on property that I have permission to hunt or city parks. I have stayed away from schools as I didn't know what the proper protocol is regarding hunting there. Those of you who metal detect schools, do you just go after hours/weekends when school is not in session or do you seek the permission of the principal or school official before metal detecting there? There are a few older ones that have their yards open after hours that I would like to hunt but didn't really know what others do in those situations.

 

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[mlayers]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

I hunt the school yard on the week end and after hours. Just don't like to have a bunch of kids hanging around you when I am trying to detect.....Matt

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

I just detect after hours or weekends

 

[Libralabsoldier]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

I detect after hours, but I do not mind kids so much. After all, I usually bring mine with me!

 

[TexasDeere]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

But do you have to get prior permission (principal or such) or do you just go without any permission?

 

[lastleg]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

If you must ask be prepared for denial. Most school officials could care less.
But if you bring attention to your activities you force them to make decisions.
The best course is to proceed and leave no imprint of your presence.

lastleg

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

I agree with lastleg and the others: If other people use the school grounds after hours for casual activity (jogging the track, shooting hoops, fly a kite, etc...) then so can you. As long as you're not a nuisance, don't "stick out" and aren't leaving any signs of your presence, I bet no one cares less.

 

[nixologist]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

Schools are my primary hunting sites when they close during the summer otherwise I hit them on the weekends.They can be a gold mine for clad and it makes me feel better getting reimbursed for all the school tax I pay.

 

[Libralabsoldier]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

IAWTC.

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

I agree, don't ask...........and leave no trace

 

[deepskyal]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

Your taxes pay for the school...just respect school hours. Dont want to distract the kids.

Al

 

[pookie-princess of rust]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

i go after hours or on weekends...

 

[jb7487]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

What I'm finding out from this site about "getting permission" is that some people are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Here are some common answers. Interpret them as you see fit.

1) You don't need permission on any public grounds.
2) Asking for permission can lead to officals revoking rights for others so don't even ask.
3) You should always ask for permission on private land.
4) You don't have to ask for permission on private land if there are no "no trespassing" signs posted.
5) Don't ever ask for permission and just don't cause a scene if you are asked to leave.
6) Always ask for permission everywhere just to be safe.
7) Be careful in National and State parks as you can be arrested for removing items that are over a certain age.

You will see that some of those are contratictory. I get the feeling that at least 25% of the members here ask for permission only when it is convenient for them or when they think they will be found out. But most people try to do the right thing. I also get the feeling that about 75% would say that you should never ask for permission on public grounds out of fear that it would cause officials to actually have to make a decision and that decision is likely to not be in our favor. In other words, "don't ruin it for everyone else". I'd love to see a survey posted on these beliefs to see what the actual numbers are. I tend to believe that most people here are law abiding citizens.

 

[Libralabsoldier]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

Schools, parks, etc...no permission necessary. Just do not disrupt other persons activities. Private property? Always ask. Where I come from that is a good way to get shot.

 

[deepskyal]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

What I'm finding out from this site about "getting permission" is that some people are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Here are some common answers. Interpret them as you see fit.

1) You don't need permission on any public grounds.
2) Asking for permission can lead to officals revoking rights for others so don't even ask.
3) You should always ask for permission on private land.
4) You don't have to ask for permission on private land if there are no "no trespassing" signs posted.
5) Don't ever ask for permission and just don't cause a scene if you are asked to leave.
6) Always ask for permission everywhere just to be safe.
7) Be careful in National and State parks as you can be arrested for removing items that are over a certain age.

You will see that some of those are contratictory. I get the feeling that at least 25% of the members here ask for permission only when it is convenient for them or when they think they will be found out. But most people try to do the right thing. I also get the feeling that about 75% would say that you should never ask for permission on public grounds out of fear that it would cause officials to actually have to make a decision and that decision is likely to not be in our favor. In other words, "don't ruin it for everyone else". I'd love to see a survey posted on these beliefs to see what the actual numbers are. I tend to believe that most people here are law abiding citizens.

Opinions abound...that's what makes a forum a place to discuss things. We don't finger point and accuse. To say 1 in 4 of us, and there are a lot of members on T-net, is crossing the line to criminality is pretty absurd. That's how I interprete your 25% statement.

The other 75% don't ask permission out of fear? Actually, there is factual basis to this concept. Quite a few members on here had places they detected put off limits because of inquiring minds. What is public? It's what we pay our taxes to support, for our use.
But go ask an official what their policy is...."Oh, we don't have one...we'll discuss it at our next meeting, Oh...you want to dig our grass...Oh, we can't have that...I'm so glad we found out about this."
That's the process in a nut shell.

I havent seen any on here condoning detecting on Federal lands that have an historic basis, not historic State sites. And laws vary from state to state...so you really cannot lump us into two groups.

You cannot blanket every situation with one simple answer. A private home is not the same thing as an abandoned site in the middle of the woods without any access. Someone "may" own it but obviously don't give 2 hoots about it to leave it go for 60 or 80, even 100 years. If they dont care, I obviously am not going to waste my time tracking them down.

This hobby takes a fair amount of common sense and good judgement. If you lack in these areas, please find another hobby. I've been doing this over 25 years and never had a problem. I'd like to keep it that way.

Al

 

[jb7487]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

deepsky, don't get your panties in a bunch. I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone. I was just trying to give an overview of the types of opinions that I've seen out here. And based on the 7 different yet overlapping attitudes you can see that there are a variety of opinions. I tried not to weigh in on my beliefs about which are right and which are wrong. They are all valid opinions although I don't agree with some of them.

To say 1 in 4 of us, and there are a lot of members on T-net, is crossing the line to criminality is pretty absurd. That's how I interprete your 25% statement.

Then you interpreted it incorrectly.

The other 75% don't ask permission out of fear? Actually, there is factual basis to this concept. Quite a few members on here had places they detected put off limits because of inquiring minds. What is public? It's what we pay our taxes to support, for our use.

Yes, you've said as much in other posts. And that's why I paraphrased this concept here so that the OP could understand that a significant number of people here do NOT want him asking for permission. I was chastised for this myself a few weeks ago. And now for some reason you choose to chastise me again for simply pointing out that this is a very strong belief here. I guess I can't win for losing. By the way, I don't subscribe to the "I paid my taxes so I can do whatever the hell I want" mentality. But if it works for you more power to you. I don't think the judge is going to buy it though.

I havent seen any on here condoning detecting on Federal lands that have an historic basis, not historic State sites. And laws vary from state to state...so you really cannot lump us into two groups.

Neither have I nor did I. You have completely misunderstood my intention. My intention was to inform the OP that there are serious repercusions to detecting on protected federal and state sites. I really don't understand what you THINK I am saying here.

You cannot blanket every situation with one simple answer. A private home is not the same thing as an abandoned site in the middle of the woods without any access. Someone "may" own it but obviously don't give 2 hoots about it to leave it go for 60 or 80, even 100 years. If they dont care, I obviously am not going to waste my time tracking them down.

I tend to agree that you cannot blanket every situation with one simple answer. I didn't try to. I simply gave a series of different interpretations and thoughts. You can see that I gave three different and conflicting mindsets towards detecting on private land (a. always ask for permission, b. only ask if there are "no trespassing" signs posted, c. only ask if you think you will get caught). You appear to fall into the c. category at least some of the time. I'm just pointing out that there are different beliefs on this depending on who you ask. I don't follow your beliefs when it comes to private property. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[jb7487]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

As a side note to the OP, you can see that permission is a very touchy subject around here. Be careful what you post about your beliefs on this topic. I had to learn the hard way when I first asked the question. I hope that I can keep you from making the same mistake.

My thoughts on asking permission for public places goes like this: for public parks I tend to ask for permission first. Parks are controlled directly by the local governing bodies who make the laws. So there is a much higher probability of a law already being in place that could get you into trouble. As said before, many people believe that simply by asking you risk losing the right to metal detect by forcing a decision to be made. And in some cases this has indeed occurred. But I think these are edge cases and not typical. I've asked two parks and recs departments so far and both responses have been positive. Still, there are a lot of old crusties out here who would prefer that you didn't rock the boat so you should expect some push back if your beliefs align with mine.

As for schools, I tend to go ahead and hunt without permission. Schools do not make their own laws and follow the standard laws of private land. But unlike private landowners, schools do not typically want to go to the trouble of pressing charges unless you are vandalizing the place. It is somewhat of an unwritten rule that schools allow people to use their facilities as long as they aren't causing trouble. I like to take my kids along and either have them detect with me or just play on the equipment. This makes it look like I have a reasonable reason to be there and that I'm not creepy.

Again, these are my thoughts and you will find many other differing opinions. You will need to form your own opinions on the matter based on the amount of risk you are willing to take. In all cases, be a polite and well mannered visitor to whatever site you go to. This will do more to keep you out of trouble than anything else.

Welcome to the forum and happy hunting.

 

[Monty]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

I generally don't ask permission to detect a school and I have never been run off from a school either. I never go when school is in session.There is one school that locks up the grounds after hours and on weekends. I called the suprentendant and got permission but I did it in a way that he couldn't really refuse. I asked if he knew of any law that prohibited it and he said no. I told him I would like to hunt the school and could I use as step ladder to get over the gate so I wouldn't damage the fence. He said fine . I talked to a workman at the school and asked why it was locked up. He said some kids had been climbing on top of the school and damaging the air conditioners. At one other school, a workman asked if I knew that I was on school property. I said I sure do because I paid for it. He just laughed and went on. That's been my experience. Monty

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

jb7487, I enjoyed the exchange between yourself and deep-sky. Look closely between the lines, of what you are posting/saying, and you too will see your own preconceptions:

some people " ..... ask for permission only when it is convenient for them or when they think they will be found out"

What do you mean "when they will be found out"? Don't you see that this this only assumes that something is wrong, to begin with? I mean, put it in this words: "Joe Blow seems to think he only needs to ask if he can jog the track or talk on his cell phone when he'll be found out" You might ask yourself "What's wrong with jogging the track, or talking on your cell phone on a school yard, that you would even need to ask, to begin with?" So you see how your premise, in your whole question, is that something is somehow wrong with you, or your hobby, that you needed to ask, to begin with. And with that in mind, you've merely lost the battle to begin with, because if/when you're standing in front of some bureaucrat (who probably never cared or gave the matter thought), will pick up on those vibes (as in "uh, something must be dangerous or illegal, that he's having to come and ask") and guess what the safe answer will be?

Next: "I tend to believe that most people here are law abiding citizen" Yes: those "25% of the members most certainly believe they are doing nothing non law-abiding. So once again, you leave an inference that something is "wrong" with detecting at a public school w/o "asking". (assuming other after-hours access is generally occuring for others for the track, dog walkers, hoops, etc...)

Next: " ..... So there is a much higher probability of a law already being in place that could get you into trouble " You come right out and spell out your premise in this statement. You are of the mindset (and that's fine) that "laws and rules and livid people lurk around every corner". But contrarily, I am of the opinion that very few laws and rules exist at the city park and school level. I think this myth gets perpetuated, because of the modern wonderful age of the internet. It's all psychology: because of the lightening fast age of information nowadays, people hop on a national forum like this, read of an isolated booting or school district, in some city or state thousands of miles away, and think "oh no, I better ask in my city/park, *just to make sure*" And presto! it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I bet that, as far as your "2 successess" in getting permission, that it merely means that whomever granted that permission, simply didn't have all the facts, or correct mindset. I could just as easily go to that same person, and get your permission just as quickly revoked. All I would need to say is: "gee, do you really think that jb7487 should be digging/poking around in the grass? And .... 'wow', don't you think it's unfair that he's setting a bad example to the kids by 'taking' their lunch money that they may, in fact, go back to look for the next day? and 'oh no', what will the indian counsel in our state, via the dept. of archaeology, think if he disturbs indian artifacts? *certainly* this must run afoul of ARPA", etc... etc... etc... So you see, that "permission" simply means someone didn't have the right mindset. Congratz that you didn't loose so far, and congratz that no busy-bodies (like the examples I just gave) haven't happened to you yet. But believe me, if you keep asking, you will not always get a "yes" (as if you needed it to begin with).

Or put another way: In my town, we detect the schools, at will, unbothered (as long as we're not a nuisance or leaving a mess). So why would I "ask" now? And what would I think of the person who DOES "ask", and merely gets a "no", to where that same person might now see ME or my friends, and remember your inquiry, and start booting others he never previously gave mind to?

I understand your concern, and YES, there are differing opinions. Your 25/75 conclusion might in fact be accurate on the mindset. But just keep in mind that when you phrase the question, you are in fact putting a premise there, that may not exist (till you ask).

 

[fmerg]

Re: Question about MD'ing at Schools

4) You don't have to ask for permission on private land if there are no "no trespassing" signs posted.

speaking with a friend of mine who is a state police officer he states that if there are no signs posted and you are on the land
the only thing the owner can do is ask you to leave and you would have to complie .... how ever if you dig a hole it then becomes criminal trustpass and you don't need to be asked to leave you can be arrested