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  1. #1
    gb
    Jun 2010
    pulse star 2, impulse, spectrum. goldscan, PI 3000
    53
    2 times

    Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    About Me
    Paul Barford
    British archaeologist living and working in Warsaw Poland. Since the early 1990s a primary interest has been research on artefact hunting and collecting and the market in portable antiquities in the international context.

    This guy calls himself an archaeologist but in reality he spends more time writing blogs than he does digs or anything productive.
    Paul Barford has built himself a reputation roaming around metal detecting forums causing problems.
    He himself admits he is a collector of antiquities but the way he goes about it he doesnt want anyone else to enjoy the pleasure of metal detecting. This guy and those like him are your worst enemy.

    Archaeologists are lets face it legalised grave robbers, they are rag and bone men, scavengers looking for buried treasure which they claim is an art and a science.

    Bullshite, science they call it what rubbish they know nothing about real history and whatever the recover they make unfounded guesses about it history.

    Before being allowed to even handle a trowel one would expect they have a degree in history so they know what they are talking about for a start.

    Slime Team (time Team) in there haste to get tot the goodies go past the post roman dark age era in a big mad rush to get to the Saxon or Roman layers, destroying what evidence there is of British occupation.
    When they get to the Roman layers seldom do they go past it in order to find anything Pre Roman ie British.
    in other words they are destroying the evidence and are totally incompetant for the job they claim is a science.

    Paul Barford is not your friend he is dangerous and has his own blogger site
    http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/ just so you know for yourself.
    heres a sample of what this **** has to say about me and accuses me of inviting every detector user to raid the sites I make the public aware of.

    Now is this what an archaeologist who is supposed to protect historical sites a responsible act? I think not.
    I think he wrote the following to incite irresponsible people to raid those sites as a cover for him and his mates to go do it themselves dont forget he is a collector and has a motive.

    heres what he wrote.
    One of the standard pro-collecting arguments is that metal detectorists "research history" out in the fields while they are looking for artefacts to collect. This for the most part is nonsense, they are out there looking for things to collect. Any research they might do to put what they find into any context is done outside the normal rigours and methodologies of historical research, sometimes with tragi-comic results. Here is a classic example of the genre. There are good reasons why the History of Geoffrey of Monmouth and related material are not given much credence these days (not that they were in previous centuries either)- but some amateur historians simply do not read the kind of books which explain why. So we get some home-grown pseudo-historigraphy of the type represented by Alan Wilson. Now this gentleman has written a number of books on his theories and "has for years attempted to get the English Establishment to dig a simple hole in order to reveal the truth about the Kingdom of Wales and create a Tourist Industry" (eh? Tourists do not go to Wales?). But now we learn from the metal detecting forum UKDN that he has had help from Alan Hassell a "well-known" metal detectorist treasure hunter who has a big black box machine that makes loud noises (but never explains just what it is) which needs a little boy to carry around (a bit suspicious that). Together they "were able to find metal where there should not be any". They've just released some You Tube videos on their exploits (the texts cited below come from the links given lower down this post).
    This Video held back for security and protection of the sites was never to be released until the Dumb, Stupid, Ignorant Academics and English Establishment did something to not only protect these sites but also to reveal the mistakes made in the past by trying to Silence Wilson and Blackett in the process. [...] Now beyond reasonable doubt the truth of these sites is revealed and the incompetance of the English Establishment EXPOSED for all the world to see. We take no pride in Destroying the name and reputation of Englands Establishment but enough is enough and they have had many oportunities to talk. Well let them talk their way out of this one. Dont believe anything the Englsih have to say about history its all Bullshit and we prove it.
    Believe a metal detector instead, eh? Now my understanding is that these sites are in Wales, so I really do not know why its the English that are being criticised, and not the local Welsh archaeological services, but that is by the by. The problem is what these gentlemen have been telling the authorities they have found (the hyperlinks are mine, not in the original text)...
    King Arthurs grave, The cross that Queen Helena recovered from the Holy Lands, King Arthurs Crown, and the Ark of the Covenant.[...] Apart from the Ark of the Covenant we also know where the Tabernacle was concealed. This is of far greater value than the Ark but for security reasons we make no mention of this in these 3 short videos.
    Now funnily enough the authorities seem not to have taken their discoveries with the whining black box too seriously, so they decided to go public with the videos.
    We implore the London Establishment and the Media to bring this to the Worlds Attention to stop mindless individuals armed with metal detectors destroying these very important historical sites. [...] After much deliberation we have decided to put these videos which prove beyond doubt that there is unexplained reasons why these sites have never been investigated or even considered worthy of an archaeological dig to investigate and close the matter.[...] Send links to these clips to every TV station and media newpapers to help protect these sites and hope that one day the world can see what is buried in these important places.
    Well, if the machine is detecting metal I suggest that in one case its a collapsed and overgrown barbed wire fence.

    The site they are searching here is the area around the Medieval church of St Peter Ad Montem at Llanharan, Glamorgan, a place the amateur historians consider to have been Caer Caradoc which they call Arthur's capital. They dug the church (which they own) here and 'discovered' an inscribed stone and a cast metal cross. Here's what one blogger has to say about them:
    In 1983, they discovered a burial stone that reads “Rex Artorius, Fili Mavricius,” which supposedly means “King Arthur, the son of Mauricius (Meurig).” In 1990, they discovered an electrum cross that reads “Pro Anima Artorius,” “for the soul of Arthur.” The problem is, as the Bad Archaeologist points out, that “Rex Artorius, Fili Mavricius” actually means “King Arthur Mauricius, of the son” and “Pro Anima Artorius” means “Arthur for the soul.” Oh dear. This is not terribly complicated Latin grammar, although one could imagine that it might fool people who put apostrophes in plurals.

    Frankly, I suspect that the guy with the wispy unwashed thinning hair has just written another book (let me see, "Lost Treasures of King Arthur"?) and these are promotional videos for it. But I'll put links up here for the value of the comism of the dialogue the metal detectorist conducts with himself.

    Part 1:
    Part 2:
    Part 3:
    Showing some more:

    So, how many of these sites are protected by law? What's the betting that there will be loads of nocturnal visitors out there with their "depth advantage" detectors trying to find the golden doors and the hidden chamber with the stashes of gold that are reported here?

    This seems to be the video-maker's intention. We find this expressly articulated here:
    Australian Treasure hunter Alan Hassell uses his special deep seeking metal detector to reveal metal targets hidden for centuries. The English Establishment need to act now or face the humiliation of the world's media for incompetence. Now these sites have been revealed detectorists and night hawks will be out in force SEEKING FORTUNES. The time for these imbiciles has come for them to come out into the open and mediate is NOW not in the future NOW”.
    ("Mediate"?) The misspelt adjective "imbeciles" of course refers to "the Establishment" rather than the metal detectorists who are going to be out at these sites with their metal detectors seeking the Ark of the Covenant.

    Note the way the treasure hunter, not once but twice, shows how "by triangulation" (eh?) he has worked out precisely where "the gold" is behind that slab-built ("look how easily they come out") wall. It's almost as if he wants somebody to go there at night and tear a big hole in it - that would make a really good photo ("We will probably never know what they took") for the book, wouldn't it? But then inciting somebody to commit vandalism is not exactly "responsible metal detecting". So this whole affair does not depict treasure hunting and metal detectorists in too favourable a light. I wonder if the PAS would care to issue a statement on these videos while Wales is still within the PAS remit? (Don't hold your breath).

    Archaeologists are greedy selfish scavengers who dislike anyone using a detector and depriving anyone of finding anything themselves. They are a law unto themselves ignorant of ancient history as can be proved.
    Would you want some scumbag digging up your bones after you have been laid to rest?

  2. #2
    ge
    Apr 2011
    Georgia
    Teknetics Delta 4000
    1,115
    7 times

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    When archeologists get their degree, they believe it gives them exclusive license to pull relics from the earth. Relic hunters are branded "looters" and "grave robbers", while they consider themselves to be "preservers of history" and "conservationists".

    I know how they are because my sister is one of them.
    LMAO

  3. #3

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,127
    1781 times
    Banner Finds (3)

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Sounds like he is amongst the "purist" camp of archies. Ie.: the most militant of the bunch.

    And yeah, they're right, we don't go through the rigorous meticulous methods that they use (ie.: digging with tweezers and paint-brushes, and writing a volume of study on the trajectory that the item was laid/faced at when retrieved, blah blah blah). Ok, great. We'll grant them that. Yup, it's true, we're "removing things from their context", and yup, it's true, they (the archies) make much more ado about the info. from a dig. There's simply no way any md'r is going to debate those facts.

    So to this I say: "SO WHAT". We'll grant you all that. Yup, it's all true. Personally I think it's great to retrieve artifacts, and no, not every artifact needs a "dossier" book written about it!
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  4. #4
    us
    Strip Minning Northern California, one Silver Coin at a time....but never leave a trace...

    Nov 2006
    In the Heart of Wine Country in Northern California
    Fisher CZ6, CZ5, Coinstrike, Fisher CZ20, Fisher 1235X Tesoro Conquistador, Whites Surfmaster P.I. , , Garrett Pro Pointer
    1,153
    376 times
    Metal Detecting

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Back around 1995 there was a major bulldozer soccer filed scrape in Deloris Park in S.F. In the middle of my hunt a lady archaeologist came up to me and started yelling at me for my "distruction of history" as she claimed I was doing. I told her to take a hike, never saw her again.
    Hunting San Francisco Bay Area since 1985

  5. #5
    gb
    Aug 2009
    SWEDEN
    (on the dry)Minelab ETRAC, backup x-terra 305.(in the wet ) Minelab Excalibur II
    2,946
    179 times

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Barford's an Arse with a capital "A"! He detests anything to do with metal detecting and would prefer us all flayed alive! I've seen detectorists argue with him until they're blue in the face, even seen a Swedish pro metal detecting archeologist (a VERY intellectual one) argue with him. Barford refuses to consider anything but his own opinions and will throw all kinds of crap responses, kinda like trying to convince a jehovahs witness to have a blood transfusion.
    No matter how much he argues his points, it gets him nowhere, due to the simple fact that metal detectorists have found thousands if not millions of items that they've declared and gone into museums for all to enjoy, where had they not been metal detecting all of those items would STILL be in the ground seen by nobody!

    His only argument is that if i or anyone else get a gold signal, dig a gold coin, and still get a gold signal, then i'm likely to just slam my spade into the ground to get all of them...smashing the container they were buried in. Fair point, because i would, as do most people who find such hoards, but the fact remains that the chance of all those items being found without us is massively unlikely.

    Blah...he just p!sses me off!

  6. #6

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dano Sverige
    Barford's an Arse with a capital "A"! He detests anything to do with metal detecting and would prefer us all flayed alive! I've seen detectorists argue with him until they're blue in the face, even seen a Swedish pro metal detecting archeologist (a VERY intellectual one) argue with him. Barford refuses to consider anything but his own opinions and will throw all kinds of crap responses, kinda like trying to convince a jehovahs witness to have a blood transfusion.
    No matter how much he argues his points, it gets him nowhere, due to the simple fact that metal detectorists have found thousands if not millions of items that they've declared and gone into museums for all to enjoy, where had they not been metal detecting all of those items would STILL be in the ground seen by nobody!

    His only argument is that if i or anyone else get a gold signal, dig a gold coin, and still get a gold signal, then i'm likely to just slam my spade into the ground to get all of them...smashing the container they were buried in. Fair point, because i would, as do most people who find such hoards, but the fact remains that the chance of all those items being found without us is massively unlikely.

    Blah...he just p!sses me off!


    I like that Dinosaur Mick Aston from Time Team famous saying...Quote, in 2 years there will be no Metal objects left in the top 3ft of soil, anywere in the UK ..How the fck are we going to achive that

    They are all tw@ts

    SS

    Don't piss down my back, then tell me it's raining.

  7. #7
    Charter Member
    um
    Jul 2004
    Broward Co.
    Tesoro Sand Shark, Whites M6
    11,745
    2421 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA
    Sounds like he is amongst the "purist" camp of archies. Ie.: the most militant of the bunch.

    And yeah, they're right, we don't go through the rigorous meticulous methods that they use (ie.: digging with tweezers and paint-brushes, and writing a volume of study on the trajectory that the item was laid/faced at when retrieved, blah blah blah). Ok, great. We'll grant them that. Yup, it's true, we're "removing things from their context", and yup, it's true, they (the archies) make much more ado about the info. from a dig. There's simply no way any md'r is going to debate those facts.

    So to this I say: "SO WHAT". We'll grant you all that. Yup, it's all true. Personally I think it's great to retrieve artifacts, and no, not every artifact needs a "dossier" book written about it!
    I agree, especially with the last few statements.
    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.

  8. #8
    gb
    Jun 2010
    pulse star 2, impulse, spectrum. goldscan, PI 3000
    53
    2 times

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Searcher
    Quote Originally Posted by Dano Sverige
    Barford's an Arse with a capital "A"! He detests anything to do with metal detecting and would prefer us all flayed alive! I've seen detectorists argue with him until they're blue in the face, even seen a Swedish pro metal detecting archeologist (a VERY intellectual one) argue with him. Barford refuses to consider anything but his own opinions and will throw all kinds of crap responses, kinda like trying to convince a jehovahs witness to have a blood transfusion.
    No matter how much he argues his points, it gets him nowhere, due to the simple fact that metal detectorists have found thousands if not millions of items that they've declared and gone into museums for all to enjoy, where had they not been metal detecting all of those items would STILL be in the ground seen by nobody!

    His only argument is that if i or anyone else get a gold signal, dig a gold coin, and still get a gold signal, then i'm likely to just slam my spade into the ground to get all of them...smashing the container they were buried in. Fair point, because i would, as do most people who find such hoards, but the fact remains that the chance of all those items being found without us is massively unlikely.

    Blah...he just p!sses me off!


    I like that Dinosaur Mick Aston from Time Team famous saying...Quote, in 2 years there will be no Metal objects left in the top 3ft of soil, anywere in the UK ..How the fck are we going to achive that

    They are all tw@ts

    SS

    Dano & Silver searcher are correct but wait a minute these guys are supposed to be professional people someone to look up to and admire hehehe that's a joke. Take a good look at slime team and its cast hehe first theres old baldrick hmmm isn't he supposed to be a comedian hehe well nothings new he's still at it hehe.
    Phil Harding a drunken man from somerset where the ssssyder apples grow. Never had a haircut since the day he was born hmmm probably never had a bath too hmmm Phew keep your distance hehe.
    As for Mick Ashton well his wife goes around all the charity shops collecting old jumpers that where she gets all the colours to make his outlandish jumpers that look like they just came out of skip.
    Haircut? that's against his religion besides the balding old git would probably die of pneumonia if anyone cut off his golden locks apart from the fact that he cant afford it like the rest of the cast.
    As for that archaeological clown Paul Barford who wants to control everything well he admits he is a collector hmm i wonder what the cops would find if they raided his abode of living? Maybe a few undeclared goodies that as an archaeologist he considered them to be unworthy of declaring. He is one of the most dangerous of species, nothing short of what one would call a NAZI who would report their own mother to gain more power from his elders.
    I know you guys in the states are having problems too, sorry about that but you can still fight and beat them at their own game after all none of them know real history their science is all guesswork. But strongest of all if anyone is destroying history it is these hypocrites who use JCB's and other heavy gear excavating sites. no ones thought of using that against them also in Englands Parliament they are introducing a law that bones must be returned to where they were found.
    I'm sure you guys can come up with even better suggestions than I anything the human mind can conceive and believe it can achieve.

  9. #9
    us
    Mar 2011
    9

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    I've been doing some research on Paul Barford and it seems that he may be a prolific writer, but I have yet to find any proof of his credential. That may explain why, when he states "British archaeologist living in Poland",
    He, in my opinion, may not be an archaeologist. So, Paul, if you are who you say you are , would you mind producing some documentation..............we're waiting !

  10. #10
    us
    Jan 2012
    MXT..it is a Pro, but I am a rookie.
    77
    18 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Well, I am a new guy, here, stumbled onto the place while researching detectors before I spend the money.
    It is neat that there is a thread that I have some experience with and can comment on without making a fool of myself, LOL.
    Enemy is a strong word with serious connotations. I don't know if I would go that far.
    That said....
    In my business I was in contact with a lot of science type folks, most of whom were close to the top of their game because of the critical nature of their work, and what I did with it.
    I had contact with the Archaeologist types on a few incidents, and found several of them to be quite full of themselves, moreso than most other scientists, who, as a general rule, are quiet, unassuming types who, when involved in their field of expertise are humble, but very exacting...and dang good at what they do.
    Archaeology is different, in that it is not always a field of exact science. When I was using them I was interested only in scientific fact, fact that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and fact that they could articulate to a layman and have it understood...and believed.
    The problem we had was that they will toss about opinions and theory as if it were fact, and then expect me to accept it..and run with it...and I refused to do so, which tended to really put their britches in a bunch.
    It took us two or three tries to get with one we could depend on, and after a couple of times working with her, i asked her over a cup of coffee when our team returned from the field what the deal was with her peers.
    She was pretty blunt.
    "Work in this field is tough to find, and once you find it you tend to be surrounded by grad students busting their behinds to get your job. They will kiss your bottom, mow your lawn, do whatever it takes to get the nod for the next dig, get you to back their play for a placement, etc. When we get called out, the world has stopped turning until we make a pronouncement. After awhile, it goes to your head, and since 50% of any new work you do is based on uproven theory you can literally pull out of the sky, being told how cool you are gives you a complex, you start believing your own P.R.."
    I am retired now, but still speak to the folks in my business...they still use her when necessary.
    It ain't gone to her head after almost 10 years in a very high pressure position.
    The faster I go the behinder I get...

  11. #11
    us
    Jul 2006
    Shelbyville, Tn.
    1,374
    47 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    As an american i believe in freedom of speech (unlike my government). He has his right to his OPINION. I also have my rights. My right to own my metal detector and my gun and if he wants to come and get them and lecture me in archeology. Then I will gladly wait until he finishes to cover back up my hole.
    Garrett "Except For Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, WAR has Never Solved Anything."

  12. #12
    ca
    Sep 2011
    Ottawa
    AT Pro, Tesoro Compadre
    71
    3 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by camo
    I've been doing some research on Paul Barford and it seems that he may be a prolific writer, but I have yet to find any proof of his credential. That may explain why, when he states "British archaeologist living in Poland",
    He, in my opinion, may not be an archaeologist. So, Paul, if you are who you say you are , would you mind producing some documentation..............we're waiting !
    He may be a charlatan with no training or credentials, but that shouldn't get in the way of a good two-minute hate of archaeologists.

  13. #13
    us
    Mar 2011
    9

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Graddick
    Quote Originally Posted by camo
    I've been doing some research on Paul Barford and it seems that he may be a prolific writer, but I have yet to find any proof of his credential. That may explain why, when he states "British archaeologist living in Poland",
    He, in my opinion, may not be an archaeologist. So, Paul, if you are who you say you are , would you mind producing some documentation..............we're waiting !
    He may be a charlatan with no training or credentials, but that shouldn't get in the way of a good two-minute hate of archaeologists.
    .....I guess, a two minute hate. But at the present time, as Sam 8 illustrates, 50% of an archaeologists work is pulled out of the sky. Four years of school, another few in the field, loans to pay off, the poor buggers are in a world of hurt ! So of course they lash out at the amateurs.

    In the last century an archaeologist was able to spin a story and attract listeners, but now with our "information super highway'' at our finger tips with sources of research that were unavailable to detectorists, archeologists have woven them selves into a web with no escape. Unless they start redefining them selfs as "historic anthropologists" or "cultural historians" to name a few, they are on a course of "eating there own".

    Archaeologists are beginning to realise that much of the artifacts that are given to museums are from metal detectorists. The British P.A.S. is one of the laws show this fact. Most of the archaeologists in Great Britain were literally dragged to the table. They started the war against the detectorists and lost, big time. In the USA, states like Oregon are changing laws in favour of detectorists and at the same time states like Alabama are tightening statutes against detectorists. Go figure.

    If you haven't noticed, the First Nations are now at war against archeologists! Actually, they have been for many years ! They simply want the remains of there ancestors back that were dug up and taken from them.(they are winning!)

    My personal take on all this is that some archeologists believe that they are High Priests of some archaic cult that have lost there magic, not willing to except the changes that has been brought on by technology. Over time, they will realise ether to work with us, or not work at all.

  14. #14
    ca
    Sep 2011
    Ottawa
    AT Pro, Tesoro Compadre
    71
    3 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by camo
    My personal take on all this is that some archeologists believe that they are High Priests of some archaic cult that have lost there magic, not willing to except the changes that has been brought on by technology. Over time, they will realise ether to work with us, or not work at all.
    My personal take is that some obnoxious, whiny detectorists like to think they are some sort of oppressed minority. Rather than accept that other people might have different opinions on managing historical artifacts, they assume that there is a cabal of scheming "archies" who love nothing more than sealing off as much land as possible for no other reason than to ruin detectorists' fun. It would be nice if archaeologists and metal detectorists got along better, but based on the venom that gets spat at them I don't blame archaeologists for seeing all metal detectorists are shameless looters.

  15. #15
    us
    Mar 2011
    Arkansas
    Fisher F-4
    160
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Archaeologists are modern day grave robbers and our enemy

    I volunteer to help Archeologists in my area. We rarely look
    for metal objects where I live, because there is so much culture here
    before metal was available. Metal objects are from the historical-archeology
    era, something that seems to be less important than pottery and lithics where
    I live. We do help preserve this art and it does get donated to schools and museums.
    Archeologists in my state are governed by the State Govt. here and thus regulated.
    ( they don't allow for any of the thievery or dishonesty or unlawful sale of grave-artifacts )
    Our state tries to preserve the heritage and cultures of our native peoples for future generations to learn about. The utmost respect is maintained near any grave-sites and preservation is maintained when possible.

    Here, at least in my part of the USA, permission must be granted by the
    landowner for any excavation or trespassing to take place, similar
    to the same rules we metal detectionists encounter, .. anywhere.

    If the fellow written about in the original post of this thread
    is regulated by laws, in whatever land the story is from, then
    why is he not being investigated? Not sure about there. I don't think
    they are on private property, the poster of this thread doesn't say, does he ?

    In our country, you need permission from the land-owner to do anything on
    private-property not owned by you, no matter who you are.



 

 
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