Ok metal detecting laws

[wvdirtdigger]

I may be heading to Ok for a job. It loos like there is a state park close (Will Rodgers). Does anyone have info as to if detecting is allowed there. And if water detecting is allowed? If I get stationed there I would enjoy some detecting with locals. Thanks!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Msbeepbeep]

You should just check with the park people and ask if it's ok, we don't want you getting in trouble! Maybe someone knows and will check in shortly with an answer.

 

[wvdirtdigger]

You should just check with the park people and ask if it's ok, we don't want you getting in trouble! Maybe someone knows and will check in shortly with an answer.

Agree. I am just trying to get a feel for the area.

 

[Jason in Enid]

State parks are on a case-by-case basis. You will have to check with the park office for to see if it's allowed and where it's allowed if they do say yes.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

I may be heading to Ok for a job. It loos like there is a state park close (Will Rodgers). Does anyone have info as to if detecting is allowed there. And if water detecting is allowed? If I get stationed there I would enjoy some detecting with locals. Thanks!

some answers you've received so far are on the order of "it depends, on a case-by-case, park-by-park basis, so you should go in and ask if it's ok".

While the first part of that statement is true (that park rules vary, from location to location, entity-to-entity), yet the second part of that statement need-not necessarilly follow. Instead, if it were true that "there might be a rule", then you can merely look up the rules for yourself. NOT think that you need to ask someone "can I?". Because by asking "can I?" you risk a "no", when no real rule exists that says such a thing. Or that they morph something else to apply to the question, when in fact, perhaps they really wouldn't have cared less, or given the matter any thought.

But to address your question specifically as it applies to OK state parks: It turns out that someone's already done this footwork many decades ago. Starting with a book called "Treasure Laws of the United States", and now evolved into web-listings like this one:

Federation of Metal Detector & Archaeological Clubs Inc.

And as you can see, OK has a "yes" in their column (that you can detect state parks there). However, it has a suffix note: " ... with permit from park office". Doh! Ok, and with that type answer, a little explanation of the evolution of such lists is in order:

The way such lists came about, way back when (starting with R.W. "Doc" Grim book Treasure Laws in the 1980s), was a simple way to compile the data: They asked! Yup, Doc Grim merely sent out 50 xerox copies to all 50 states capitols, to the parks dept. high powers, with a letter to the effect of: "what are your state's rules regarding the use of metal detectors in your state parks?" And then he merely compiled all 50 state's replies, in alphabetic order, in his book. Even to the point of including the actual letter head reply, so in case someone accosts you in the field, you can just show them the page from their own state capitol saying it's allowed.

What a genius idea right? I mean, what better authority to have, than a "yes" straight from the capitol right? And what better pre-emptive info to have if it were a "no", so you "don't get in trouble" right? And who better to ask, than the state's themselves, right?

And subsequent lists (like the link above) often just drew from sources like that. Or continued to use the same method of seeking clarification, and sending inquiries, in the same way.

But a curious thing happened when that first book made the rounds: There were a lot of those state with "no's" or dire sounding things like "with permission" or "with permit", where ......... quite frankly ...... detecting had just always gone on in those state's parks, and no one had ever had a problem. I mean, duh, of course, stay away from obvious historic monuments, but aside from that, it hadn't been an issue. But now all of the sudden there's this book with a "no" or some such dire-sounding things?

The reason for this was simple: put yourself in the shoes, way-back-when, of whomever receives such an inquiry? What do you THINK the "simple" answer is going to be? Because logically, admittedly, some state parks *might* have a historically sensitive theme (while the other 95% are non-historic run-of-the-mill beaches and campgrounds). So if you were tasked with answering such a question, you simply can not go into minute detail, and say: "yes at these 42, but no at these 6" Or "yes at such & such park, except stay off the golf course putting green" or "not at the west end by the historic cabin" and so forth. Duh. So obviously the easy answer was either "no", or "inquire at each kiosk you come to".

Do you see the self-fulfilling vicious loop here? So people did exactly what the list said, and started 'asking at each kiosk'. Or seeking a "permit" which apparently only goes to archies, and the average man will never get. So all of the sudden, these "pressing questions" at each kiosk and indivual park office and ranger, merely puts this on the radar as a "BOL" for rank and file rangers that this must somehow now be watched for, as if it's now somehow evil or something.

So before long, states that had never had a problem before, DO have a problem now. And old-timers are left scratching their heads saying "since when?". It was a national case of "no one caring till you ask".

And even those states on that list that have a "with permission" or "ask at each kiosk" or "with a permit", you have to ask yourself: Do they really mean that, and does anyone really care, or does such a "permit" even exist? Because take CA, on that list, as an example: If someone were to take that list literally, they might *think* they need "permission" on state-of-CA beaches (which are administered by the state's park's dept. afterall). But on the contrary, you can hunt state of CA owned beaches till you're blue in the face, and no one cares. Gee, I guess not enough people have gone asking questions for clarification. And I guess that's a good thing.

 

[Jason in Enid]

TOM, I live here in OK. I know the rules. 100% of all Oklahoma state parks have been off limits to metal detecting for a very long time. They just recently began allowing it on park-by-park basis. The rules state that you have to find out for each park (Can I bring a metal detector to the park? Visitors who wish to use a metal detector in an Oklahoma State Park must obtain a use permit from the park office.) . trust me, this isn't something you want to screw up. Not only can you face big state fines, you can also screw up what we are in the works of improving.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

TOM, I live here in OK. I know the rules. 100% of all Oklahoma state parks have been off limits to metal detecting for a very long time. They just recently began allowing it on park-by-park basis. The rules state that you have to find out for each park (Can I bring a metal detector to the park? Visitors who wish to use a metal detector in an Oklahoma State Park must obtain a use permit from the park office.) . trust me, this isn't something you want to screw up. Not only can you face big state fines, you can also screw up what we are in the works of improving.

Jason, at the risk of making a longer response than I already did, I ... at some point, could not go into all the contingencies imaginable.

I have no doubt that some places/states have rules. And even "for a very long time". That wasn't the point of my post, to claim that there ISN'T some real and/or enforced "rules" in some places. My point was to ask yourself HOW DID THAT COME TO BE in the first place? And yes, you're right: there might be some of those states "ask at each kiosk", or "need permit", that may in fact be enforced. And others (as my example of CA), where no one cares, and you would simply do more damage by going and asking silly questions.

And even for those that........ as you say is true of OK, do in fact have a true "permit", that any old-joe can go get, where do you think someone's notion of implementing such a permit, even got started way-back-when?

I guess what I should have said, is to take such lists with a grain of salt, till you here from someone there (which you now have done) who knows the real skinny. And if that person's "real skinnny" is to simply cite something like the FMDAC list, then it just goes right back around, to "is that really the case?". The cut & paste you provice, appears to come from an FAQ type thing, right? I wonder what would happen, if someone posed such a Question to the state of CA, in reference to the state-of-CA beaches here? That's all I'm trying to say.

I know, it's an endless game of what came first: chicken or egg? And the minute someone goes to resolve the question of "what's the real skinny?", their knee-jerk temptation is to ..... doh, ask a bureaucrat! (of course). And thus the vicious circle.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Yes Tom, I understand that. But as a 30+ year detectorist from the state of Oklahoma, I know the rules and was trying to help the OP. This is NOT a case of "people have always done it and nobody cares." Metal detecting was ILLEGAL in ALL state parks. So this is the polar opposite of your scenario.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Jason, if, as you say, md'ing is illegal (by specific wording actually saying "metal detecting"), in your state: then just curious: Have you ever researched to find out when that actually came into being, by actual specific included verbage? You just say "for a very long time", but I wonder when it actually came about as being specific (and enforced as you say). And what precipitated it become a rule, to begin with? Ie.: what put it on someone's radar, way-back-whenever that was?

I'm guessing that rarely ever does any rule pre-date the 1970s, for example. Since prior to that (the 1960s), it was just a novelty. So any rules (that specifically refer to "metal detecting") would be after that time, I would imagine. And so do you know what precipitated, that in your state? Not a big deal now 30+ yrs. later, because it certainly won't change anything, but........ oh well.

 

[RGINN]

Having actually worked as an Oklahoma State Park Ranger (1993-1999, Fort Cobb State Park), I have no argument with what Jason says. State Park rules and regulations said you had to obtain permission from the park manger to detect in a particular state park. They could give or deny permission. They could limit detecting to certain areas. It would vary from park to park. Some managers had no problem with it, others wouldn't abide it. Our park had no particular significant historic sites and our park manager had no problem with it. During my duties I didn't encounter many detectorists and had only two incidents where I took any type of action. One, I had a lady trying to detect on an extremely crowded swim beach. I told her to come back during times when the crowd thinned out and she agreed that was a good idea. Another, some people had bought a cheap detector at a yard sale and a great big shovel and were starting to dig up a nicely maintained grassy picnic area. I made them fill up their holes, take their detector and shovel and leave the park. Had they have checked, I would have sent them to a more primitive area with good possibilities and even given them a few pointers. That one incident could have ruined it for all future detecting in that park, too.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Jason, if, as you say, md'ing is illegal (by specific wording actually saying "metal detecting"), in your state: .

I didn't say "IS", I said "WAS". And I'm not fond of the idea of people screwing up a relaxing of the rules.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Having actually worked as an Oklahoma State Park Ranger (1993-1999, Fort Cobb State Park), I have no argument with what Jason says. State Park rules and regulations said you had to obtain permission from the park manger to detect in a particular state park. They could give or deny permission. They could limit detecting to certain areas. It would vary from park to park. Some managers had no problem with it, others wouldn't abide it. Our park had no particular significant historic sites and our park manager had no problem with it. During my duties I didn't encounter many detectorists and had only two incidents where I took any type of action. One, I had a lady trying to detect on an extremely crowded swim beach. I told her to come back during times when the crowd thinned out and she agreed that was a good idea. Another, some people had bought a cheap detector at a yard sale and a great big shovel and were starting to dig up a nicely maintained grassy picnic area. I made them fill up their holes, take their detector and shovel and leave the park. Had they have checked, I would have sent them to a more primitive area with good possibilities and even given them a few pointers. That one incident could have ruined it for all future detecting in that park, too.

Rginn, everything you're saying is without dispute. In fact, there didn't even need to be a rule saying "get each individual park's permission", for the various enforcement examples you give, to have occurred. You could have booted both those individuals for other ancillary verbage, that forbids "nuisances" or "annoyances" (the lady going in a ton on pedestrian traffic/crowd). Or that forbids "vandalism" (the person who brought a shovel to the turf).

But was there any actual "permit" (as ... in a paper? or form? etc...) you would give someone who went to your Ft. Cobb park? Or was it more like a verbal permission ("ok"), rather than a printed "permit" ? So to get back to what I was saying then: How and when did an OK rule in their state parks, that says you can detect in state parks, "provided you get a permit from each individual park" ? Obviously it must have been before you worked there in 1993, right? Do you know how it came about, as something that needed to be addressed with such a rule? I'm not saying it doesn't exist NOW, or isn't enforced NOW, I'm just asking how it came about, to begin with.

 

[RGINN]

As an LEO I was never required to research the origin of laws or regulations I enforced, so I couldn't tell you how that regulation came about. At my park we never had an actual paper permit to issue, but that was not a problem for us. We did have a few people ask from time to time and the answer was always yes. Probably the reason for not getting into requiring you to get an actual permit was, being one of those many parks that did not have Jesse James' gold buried in it or a civil war battle site, a person walking around with a detector did not catch our attention. A person on a backhoe we would be lookin at. To help you out with your questions though, I have heard that Quartz Mountain State Park down by Altus is issuing permits at the park office. $3.00 a day, and you are limited to certain areas of the Park. I haven't been down there in a long while so I can't say if that's true or not, but they might be able to tell you a whole lot about metal detecting in Oklahoma State Parks.