Newbie Advice-Ace 250-wet sand- Gold?

[Kilika]

Hi Y'all- I'll appreciate in advance any responses I get from this post!

Only had my Ace 250 about 3 weeks now, been out about 5 or 6 times, already burned through my first set of batteries but still don't know much about what I'm doing in the field.
So I went up in the west side of the Cascades, found a stream with about a 30% grade (I hope) near an area that had gold in the past. There were two man-made barriers made of timbers stacked up, one on one side of the stream, one on the other side several yards downstream. Quite alot of sand and silt behind them, assume they were put there to try to keep everything from washing downstream. A little further downstream, a large culvert was about 1/2 full of sand/silt. Went over the area with my Ace on factory settings. A few strong signals, but when trying to pinpoint, got strong signals covering large areas (1'x2'), anywhere from 2" to 8" deep. Started digging. No found objects, but the deeper I got, the more little gold specks I was seeing.
So here's some of my questions - would a layer of fool's gold give me a reading like that? I tried panning some of it, but I don't know what I'm doing with a gold pan, yet, either. Never gotten any gold 'in the wild', so I don't really know what that would look like. Isn't fools gold made of iron pyrite? Or something like that? I've read on this forum that the Ace 250 doesn't do well with wet sand... was that what was happening? And what does that mean? What does it do that's weird, in wet sand? Or is that only a problem around salt water? Maybe it was just reacting to some other minerals in the area?
I dug down as deep as I could reach with my little garden trowel (up to my shoulder in the hole) through alot of sand, under some big rocks(about fist-sized), down through some more gravel to where I seemed to be getting some distinct layers. Took about 1/2 of a 5gal. bucket home with me. Was getting a reading on the stuff I took home, and will try panning it later with a friend who has a little(tiny) bit more experience than I do.
Any advice, tips, or information you care to share would be great!

Thanks-
Kilika

 

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[Kilika]

Oops It just occurred to me... when I scanned the stuff in the bucket and got a reading on it... the bucket I was using had a metal handle! Well, maybe someone can learn from my mistakes!!

Kilika

 

[MD Dog]

Kilika take the time to read alot of the posts about the 250, it's a great machine but as with all MDs there is a learning curve to it's proper use. Gold isn't really this machines fortae although it can be used that way but mostly by the more expert users.

 

[Kilika]

WNYHobo- Thanks for your response! I should've added to my post... I do know the Ace 250 is best as a coin shooter, and that to get serious about finding gold I should get a machine specifically designed for it.... I was just hoping to get lucky in the mountains. (with my dectector, I mean )
That's why I was hoping someone could tell me why I was getting those kind of readings.
Or at least tell me I'm an idiot! And why??

HH- Kilika

 

[MD Dog]

Well to start with water plays havoc with this type of metal detector. Not only does the water cause the electrical signals if you will, to be spread out but it will also scatter those signals in moving water. As to wether or not pyrite or fools gold has metal content enough to triggar a metalic signal I haven't got a clue. I do also know that when I hunt in wet ground or on wet beach sand, (fresh water only) I have to turn my sensetivity way down to around a three. I don't know about the soils in WA state but if they're as heavily mineralized as we have here in the north east I'd say your chances are pretty slim to non for pin pointing any gold especially near or in water with the 250. So all in all to finalize my diatribe, ya might wanna rethink your other option of getting lucky in the other way, you probably stand a better chance....

 

[BioProfessor]

You have quiet a situation. Like the others and you have said, the machine is more for coins. Gold is no cakewalk for any machine. It's just tough. The ones designed especially for gold are tuned for it and do a pretty good job. As far as Iron Pyrite (Fool's Gold) setting off your machine, I don't know but I do know that iron pyrite looks very different from the gold you should be finding. It is only similar to gold in its color and luster. The structure is all wrong. It is a crystal that has "faces" where the gold you find in streams is usually placer gold found as nuggets or flakes:

Placer Deposits
A placer deposit is a concentration of a natural material that has accumulated in unconsolidated sediments of a stream bed, beach, or residual deposit. Gold derived by weathering or other process from lode deposits is likely to accumulate in placer deposits because of its weight and resistance to corrosion. In addition, its characteristically sun-yellow color makes it easily and quickly recognizable even in very small quantities. The gold pan or miner's pan is a shallow sheet-iron vessel with sloping sides and flat bottom used to wash gold-bearing gravel or other material containing heavy minerals. The process of washing material in a pan, referred to as "panning," is the simplest and most commonly used and least expensive method for a prospector to separate gold from the silt, sand, and gravel of the stream deposits. It is a tedious, back-breaking job and only with practice does one become proficient in the operation.


The thing that may be setting off your detector are "hot rocks." They have enough mineralization to be detected by the machine. You can test the rocks by placing some on the bank where you don't get a signal. If they are "hot" they will produce a tone. In a streambed, these can drive you crazy.

Hope this helps.

Daryl

 

[gravediggermax-vabeachva]

Just remember what Sandman said

" Time is the only thing you never get back, why waste time using a cheap machine when you can have more fun and recover more with a better detector. "

 

[Kilika]

Thanks for the tips, guys!

I expect what I have in the bucket is fools gold, although I haven't had time to pan it yet. It seemed to be small flat flakes, not littles chunks like yours Daryl. WOW... nice pics... that must've been exciting! Since I haven't found any real gold yet, I don't know what that would sound like. But, oh well, that's why I'm learning!

Thanks for the info about it acting up around water.

Re: getting a better detector? First I had to see if I have what it takes to stick with this hobby before laying out that kind of cash. Be sure when I'm ready to step up, I'll be asking for your advice! (Then my ace can be a spare for friends)

HH- Kilika

 

[MUD(S.W.A.T)]

Practice Practice Practice, Dig Dig Dig !! Thats my advice :P

On a more helpful scale, I never assume I have a ghost signal, or false signal. I dig if I get a good hit and use my pinpointer to find the hotrocks and toss them away. If I dig and dig and don't find anything I then say I have a ghost hit. However in most cases I dig a few more inches and I hit a massive size piece of sheet metal or steel. That Has an Aura that sets of my machine at 14 inches away but tells me its a quarter at 6 inches. So thats why I say what I say above Practice and Digging is obviously the best way to figure out these little things that get in our way. I know... its the hard truth

Oh and we always have T-net
Keep @ it and HH!!

 

[BioProfessor]

Most of the gold you will find in places like yours will be flakes. You need to learn how to pan them out. Try to find a local prospecting club in your area. They should be more than happy to show you how to pan. It's not that difficult you just have to learn the technique. There are kits you can buy that have "salting" gold flakes you can mix with the material you are panning to see if you are doing it right but they are pretty spendy.

If you see flakes, you have gold. Pyrite just get smaller and smaller but still in a cube form like table salt.

This is the only club I can find that has anything to do with gold prospecting in your area. I don't think they are around anymore though. They say they update the site regularly but the last update was in 2001.

PSTHC Meeting Location
Our meeting place is
Sizzler
10204 S. Tacoma Way
Lakewood, WA.
Meetings are the third Thursday of every month
at 7:30pm
Any questions call and ask for Curtis or JoAnna
(253)584-8111

[email protected]

Daryl

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Just remember what Sandman said

" Time is the only thing you never get back, why waste time using a cheap machine when you can have more fun and recover more with a better detector. "

Agree!

 

[Nashoba]

Quite simply, the easiest way to tell if you have gold flakes or pyrite is that gold flake will bend and pyrite will break very easily. A majority of gold found on the western slopes of the Cascades is , in fact, very fine light flake. Light being a relative term of course, as all gold is heavy. The soil here is volcanic and highly mineralized and not really suited for the fing of gold. I swing an Ace 250 myself but I know it is not suited to the conditions in which gold is found in any quantity. Not to say that you may not find a nugget now and again, but the chances are that the mineralization is going to drive you nuts falsing.

Hope this helped in some way

~Nash~

 

[Kilika]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Daryl- Your posts are so full of valuable info. I really appreciate the time you take to share the knowledge you have.

Nash- Great to hear from someone relatively local. I thought it might be mineralization. That's what the machines with 'ground balancing' are for, right?

Hey, I'm getting the hang of this, I think! Learning as I go along! (It's a whole new language)
Well, I'm not giving up and I'll post what I have when I find out the results... and yes, I'll keep practicing and dig, dig, diggging.

HH - Kilika

 

[Sheldius]

Another common "gold" in river sands are mica flakes. This are very lite weight, flat, and brittle. They will shatter and break if put under pressure. Mica will also pan out with the lighter materials. Unless you have a bunch of grease or oil in your pan (which can float gold out) mica should pan out before you get to the heavy black sands. I used to pan a little in Washington (Port Angeles area), but I didn't really have much problems with mica.

Panning practice can be obtained by adding 10 copper BB's or lead dove shot to your pan. The number you recover out of 10 is about the percentage of gold also recovered. When you are getting 8-10 back every time, you will see gold if any is in your material.

Always be sure to pan into another container if you really believe there is gold. That way you can pan it again to recover the spilled materials.

 

[Nashoba]

Another common "gold" in river sands are mica flakes. This are very lite weight, flat, and brittle. They will shatter and break if put under pressure. Mica will also pan out with the lighter materials. Unless you have a bunch of grease or oil in your pan (which can float gold out) mica should pan out before you get to the heavy black sands. I used to pan a little in Washington (Port Angeles area), but I didn't really have much problems with mica.

Panning practice can be obtained by adding 10 copper BB's or lead dove shot to your pan. The number you recover out of 10 is about the percentage of gold also recovered. When you are getting 8-10 back every time, you will see gold if any is in your material.

Always be sure to pan into another container if you really believe there is gold. That way you can pan it again to recover the spilled materials.

Very good advice for a beginning panner. And might I add that when you pan for gold you can be quite agressive with the pan so long as you shake it good and hard a few times to keep the gold at the bottom. I know that when I first started I was afraid to lose gold. An old timer walked up to ma and said, "At the rate you're panning you might as well go home. That or I can show you how."

I chose the second option and made a great friend. I was also able to pan about ten times faster than before after a bit of practice. I alos learned that the true paydirt is the flower gold in the black sand. Believe me when I say, It adds up!!!!

Best o' luck

~Nash~

 

[Kilika]

thanks for the tips, guys -

I think what I have is mica flakes too light, and too brittle.) But I did find a few flakes that were a deeper gold color and didn't lose their lustre when turning in the light. Also had black sand. Can gold and mica be found together? Probably not too likely. I know a local jeweler that does alot of custom manufacturing. I may take some into him... at least he'll get a good laugh

kilika

 

[Sheldius]

There is also a way to check, but its ... looking side to side nervously ... got to do with mercury . If you can obtain a drop or two, it will bond with the gold but it won't with the mica or pyrite. Just be careful where you burn off the mercury to recover the gold.

Mica and gold can be found in the pan at the same time if your panning technique doesn't remove all the lites. Little whirlpools and back currents can move lite materials back to the heavy black sands area.

Try drying out the panned material on paper and winnowing it. To do this, gently try blowing on the materials to move them away from each other. Mica will scoot quickly off the paper, and you should be able to get some separation of the quartz sand from the black sand/gold. With practice you can even remove the black sands from the gold this way. The gold won't move unless you blow fairly hard. Now you know how environmentally cautious gold panners spend those long winter nights. Blowing their gold. LOL. :P

 

[Kilika]

Great idea! Thanks, I'll try it. (The blowing, not the mercury... always was better at blowing than chemistry )

 

[Sheldius]

Once you are down to black sand and gold, you can try to remove the magnetic sand with a magnet (keep it in a plastic bag or you will have a hairy magnet forever).

Also, there is suppose to be some very fine platinum in the sands of some areas of the Olympic Peninsula. Those would be grey/silver colored and very heavy. Not sure what area of NW Washington you are in.

In areas were mercury was used to pan alot by the old timers, you can also find grey/silver amalgam grains. So, if it is heavy, but not gold colored, I'd still keep it.

Good luck and post some pictures of your seperated gold.

 

[Kilika]

Hey! there's an idea I guess pictures would help alot, huh?
Now if I only had a camera....
And learned how to post photos....

Sorry, I'm only learning one new-fangled technological device at a time!
(And that's my MD )

Maybe one of my friends could help with the pic's.
Sure appreciate the feedback-
Kilika