Ancient Chinese explorers landed in America

[Hitndahed]

Ah yes, a conspiracy theory. Of course. There are men in black trenchcoats, in dark rooms, smoking cigarretes, pulling the strings of academia, who "don't want you to know", right ?

===============================================================
Absolutely not,,,
Then tell me,,,
WHY does Columbus deserve the title of the "first" to "discover",, or rather I mean to RE-DISCOVER the North American continent when it has been proven that "Viking" explorers among others were here way before him?

EVERYTHING is about monetization,,maps were faked to throw off merchants and their ship captains in those times. They didn't want any competition. That was a common practice.
Kids are STILL being taught the Columbus routine,,,and when they put forth other instances of evidence that leans any other way they are ridiculed and chaised for being different. I was part of this exact discussion with BOTH my kids teachers.

Oh and just attempt to bring up Jekyl Island and the Fed as a middle or high school student. There is much going on in this country,,, and has been for hundreds of years,,things put into place to MONETIZE everything.

 

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[kayakpat]

muddyhanz many of us think of those old days and romanticize them, but I am sure those settlers would love to live the life we do, and would trade us in a second for their way of life. They were lucky to live to 40 years of age, I don't know the exact per cent but deaths at birth for mothers and children were extremely high. No antibiotics everytime you got jagged or cut you had the chance of dying. There are more hardships than you can imagine, starvation, extreme weather, etc on top of that , you are seriously understanding the importance of technology in everyday life, even in the primitive people time.

 

[Hitndahed]

Even here
Spanish Hill

WAY before,,, and this IS the site that brought me here..
"In Plain Sight"

Oh man,,, I love these places

Hit

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....The monarchy would commission scientists, magicians, inventors, etc. but had to fight the church tooth and nail to do so........
"The world is round...... Blasphemy! BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!" ...

Ah, so it was only them "religious people" who thought the earth was flat, while all "smart-thinking" people were figuring it was round, right ? On the contrary, everyone thought it was flat, despite their philosophical or religious persuasions. It seems to me you're casting aspursions on the "certain" religion here, is the heavy tone of your statements. (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't know about those (any particular way-back-when) folks who "stood in the way" of advances, but it certainly has no reflection of any one now aligning/identifying him/her-self with belief in God now. The "certain religion" you allude to back then, is riddled with forward thinking & science-advancing scholars today.

And in regards to "advances" versus "stone-age", kayakpat hit the nail exactly on the head.

 

[releventchair]

muddyhanz many of us think of those old days and romanticize them, but I am sure those settlers would love to live the life we do, and would trade us in a second for their way of life. They were lucky to live to 40 years of age, I don't know the exact per cent but deaths at birth for mothers and children were extremely high. No antibiotics everytime you got jagged or cut you had the chance of dying. There are more hardships than you can imagine, starvation, extreme weather, etc on top of that , you are seriously understanding the importance of technology in everyday life, even in the primitive people time.

Too a point,yes.
I value dentistry today though diet a cause of most my challenges with it.
Modern medicine and surgeries allowed me to live when it would not have been possible before.
To my benefit though, not the worlds.
Still, it is called medical practice for a reason. Ills and woes still result in a percentage of cases and in time some of our current science will be viewed as arcane, outdated, hocus pocus, or worse.
Yet choose a pre Euro time in history and folks had it as good or better than earlier generations through advancement.
Just as we don't know what developments the future holds and can not miss what we don't have; neither did they.
Life was terms. Still is.

 

[HenryWaltonJonesJr]

With all due respect to Columbus he did prove you could sail west and come back. Nobody had just gone straight across before and most never thought he'd return. He had a heck of a time getting the money to do it, people thought he was crazy. He underestimated the length of the trip and ended up no where near where he set out to go, but damn was he brave and returned! He opened the door to colonization and made Spain, not long after, the richest country on earth as they and other countries continued exploring what this one man had started.

Of course the Vikings were in the western hemisphere before him and before them it seems many others. Columbus was the one however, that initiated the change of world history. This is why we don't only know of him, but even the names of his ships!

 

[Muddyhandz]

Tom,
I don't know why you're fixated on religion and technology in Europe. It seems as though you think you've hit a home run and are focusing on a small part (which has been taken out of context) that in no way represents the majority of my posts. I used this as an example in response to the way of thinking that you describe in post #19.
I don't care about religion and Europe here now in this thread. That's a whole other topic.
If you want to debate this with someone else on my thread then by all means, as long as you don't get it locked because of too much religious content.

Now, the quote below I agree with completely as I too, have found Chinese cache coins that were hundreds of years older than the site they came from.
The topic that I started this thread with, is discussing 80+ petroglyph's that resemble the long extinct "Oracle-bone" style of Chinese calligraphy that dates from 1700 to 1050 B.C.
Hardly a comparison with the hundreds of year old cache coins popping up on the West Coast.
But still, a good point nevertheless.

2nd "conclusive proof that the Chinese were here first":

2) There was some archaeologists, in the pacific NW somewhere (WA? OR?) digging in pre-history indian mounds. Lo & behold they found a chinese cache coin. They got the inscriptions/date translated and .... wow, it was from the 1500s! Oh my gosh, conclusive proof that the Chinese had made it to the Pac NW, almost as early, if not earlier, than the Spanish who explored up the Pacific coast, eh ? It even got into respectable archaeological journals, the paper, etc... The archies were "besides themselves with glee" (hey, it's hard to argue with the date on a coin, isn't it ??)

But as anyone here on the west coast that metal detects knows: Those silly cache coins turn up wherever the Chinese emigrants came (gold rush, RR workers, etc...) in the mid to late 1800s. And their dates have NO BEARING on when they were lost. Apparently they were stored in barrels over in China, for up-to-centuries, and opened up for distributions, or when preparing to travel. And so those things are found in Coolie-/china-town type sites, all over the west coast, with dates to the 1700s, 1600s, and, yes, even 1500s. Yet at sites that didn't get started till the 1850s or 1860s or whatever.

But archies wouldn't know this. An md'r would know this.

Hence, have an "open mind" to alternate explanations.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Any discussion about visitors in North America would be welcome.
Since we were talking about N.A. Natives.......

"Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean (cont.)
By Jay Stuart Wakefield, MES & AAPF
The Miners of Michigan Copper

It is estimated that half a billion pounds (Ref.1) of copper were mined in tens of thousands of pits on Isle Royale and the Keweenaw Peninsula of Michigan by ancient miners over a period of a thousand years. Carbon dating of wood timbers in the pits has dated the mining to start about 2450 BC and end abruptly at 1200 BC. Officially, no one knows where the Michigan copper went. All the “ancient copper culture” tools that have been found could have been manufactured from just one of the large boulders. A placard in London’s British Museum Bronze Age axe exhibit says: “from about 2500 BC, the use of copper, formerly limited to parts of Southern Europe, suddenly swept through the rest of the Continent”. No one seems to know where the copper in Europe came from.

Indian legends tell the mining was done by fair-haired “marine men”. Along with wooden tools, and stone hammers, a walrus-skin bag has been found (Ref.1). A huge copper boulder...........

Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean - GrahamHancock.com articles

Hmmmmmn, "Fair-haired marine men"
Sounds interesting!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, I don't know why you're fixated on religion and technology in Europe....

Because it appeared someone took a pot-shot at generalizing a certain group of people as repressing progress, science, etc....

.... focusing on a small part (which has been taken out of context)...

Then if that's not what you meant, so be it. Thanx for clarifying.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Pretty naive to think the Vikings set foot on the Americas first, we all know Roman traders were there before them. No reason to doubt the Chinese were there even before them.

SS

 

[spummerr]

There's a new show starting soon. Legend of Kung Fu Island

 

[Yang Hao]

well although the writing does look like ancient Chinese. they can't date it so therefore it's hard to tell if it was written 1000 years ago. it could have been written by chinese people 100 years ago trekking across America looking for gold or working on the railway.

 

[Muddyhandz]

I believe there are many variables and possibilities in life......



Seen this video on T-net a few years ago and bookmarked it for such a day.

But I still believe there were many visitors to this continent in ancient times.

Ancient Chinese?

 

[T.C.]

The Phoenicians were well known for their sailing prowess....we can also throw them into the mix!!

 

[T.C.]

Gloria Farley...."People throughout the ages have found it difficult to change entrenched but erroneous dogma which passes for knowledge. By adopting Fell's flexible attitude, I have been free to pursue the truth by reevaluating my own material as new evidence was found. Many times when Fell was doubted, it was found later that he was correct. Most of the translations in this book were originally provided by him. A few proposed translations have been attempted by other individuals and are so credited"

I've read Dr. Barry Fell's book "America B.C.", it makes ya wonder!!

Even here
Spanish Hill

WAY before,,, and this IS the site that brought me here..
"In Plain Sight"

Oh man,,, I love these places

Hit

 

[Dave Rishar]

With all due respect to Columbus he did prove you could sail west and come back. Nobody had just gone straight across before and most never thought he'd return. He had a heck of a time getting the money to do it, people thought he was crazy.

Of course the Vikings were in the western hemisphere before him and before them it seems many others. Columbus was the one however, that initiated the change of world history. This is why we don't only know of him, but even the names of his ships!

Which is astonishing, when you consider that the Icelanders did not only beat him by five centuries, but also established colonies. They also sailed straight across and back, admittedly from Iceland. Of course, ships sailed from Scandinavia and England to Iceland (and from Iceland to Turkey, which impresses me) during the same time period, so I suppose that it shouldn't have been a complete surprise. I don't know what people thought about them back then, but I'd call them crazy today, and not just for the explorations.

Pretty naive to think the Vikings set foot on the Americas first, we all know Roman traders were there before them. No reason to doubt the Chinese were there even before them.

We all know that the Romans were there first? I don't, but I'm ready to be enlightened if you're ready to enlighten me. I don't personally think that their skills were up to it, never mind the ships. If their own accounts are to be believed, they stuck to the coasts and preferred protected waters. The Greeks were better at it and the Romans took advantage of that, but I'm not sure that the Greeks could have managed it either - not without a lot of luck, anyway, and if someone did pull it off, they probably didn't make it back. The Icelanders made it back, which is why we have writings about it that we can read today; on top of that, we have settlements that have been excavated. We have yet to see an excavated Roman, Greek, or Chinese settlement in the New World. I'm not saying that it couldn't or didn't happen, but I am saying that the evidence of it is less firm than that of the Icelanders. The story may change in the future, but it's not like hard evidence is being ignored.

There is a reason to doubt that the Chinese were there before the Romans - they didn't have ships that could do it back then. (I'd argue that the Romans and their allies didn't either, but stranger things have happened. As a former sailor, there's no way in hell that I'd attempt to cross in the North Atlantic in the ships that the Icelanders used, but they did it, so obviously it could be done.) I doubt that they could have made the journey during the Medieval period to be honest unless they were very, very lucky. I could see them pulling it off ~1500-1800, give or take; after that, someone would have noticed who would have written about it. Note: crossing the north Pacific is a different game than crossing the north Atlantic, and I don't wish the former on anyone during the winter, even in modern ships. It sucks. That having been said, it can and was done...but was it done in significant numbers?

 

[T.C.]

Dave....click on the link "In Plain Sight" on Hitndahed's post #43.....I cain't figger out how ta copy and paste a link!!
Anyhow, it's a great read!!

 

[Muddyhandz]

T.C. I was able to read both articles (post #43) yesterday and found them interesting.
I remember Gloria Farley's name coming up in this "famous" thread right here on T-net......
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/141410-ancient-coin-updated-more-pics.html
Quite the ride if one has the time to go through all 30+ pages!

 

[Muddyhandz]

Which is astonishing, when you consider that the Icelanders did not only beat him by five centuries, but also established colonies. They also sailed straight across and back, admittedly from Iceland. Of course, ships sailed from Scandinavia and England to Iceland (and from Iceland to Turkey, which impresses me) during the same time period, so I suppose that it shouldn't have been a complete surprise. I don't know what people thought about them back then, but I'd call them crazy today, and not just for the explorations.


As a former sailor, there's no way in hell that I'd attempt to cross in the North Atlantic in the ships that the Icelanders used, but they did it, so obviously it could be done.) I doubt that they could have made the journey during the Medieval period to be honest unless they were very, very lucky. I could see them pulling it off ~1500-1800, give or take; after that, someone would have noticed who would have written about it. Note: crossing the north Pacific is a different game than crossing the north Atlantic, and I don't wish the former on anyone during the winter, even in modern ships. It sucks. That having been said, it can and was done...but was it done in significant numbers?

This leads me to mention another crazy theory. Well, New Iceland is an hour north of where I live. The Icelander's chose to settle along the shores of Lake Winnipeg back in the 1870's.
Minnesota is to the south of us and we share a similar history due to the fur trade, waterways and oxcart trails.
Why are there so many people of Scandinavian decent in both Manitoba and Minnesota other than it being cold here?
I ask this because of the legends of Vikings reaching Minnesota.
It is recorded in La Verendrye's journal (1730's) that his party came upon a tribe of "white Indians" that were 7 feet tall, living in southern Manitoba.
When other tribes were asked about these white Indians, they couldn't answer anything about them as they had no idea where they came from.
These people were wiped out by the end of the 18th century from disease. They didn't live that far from the Mandan.
In the late 1800's, Dr. Bryce opened up a mound (in southern Manitoba) and found copper artifacts that resembled Celtic styles and designs.
This mound was one of the few remaining that Bryce notes......"Finally a mound that the Smithsonian didn't get to."
Maybe the Icelander's chose this land because their ancestors made it out here a millennium earlier?

 

[Hitndahed]

Because it appeared someone took a pot-shot at generalizing a certain group of people as repressing progress, science, etc....



Then if that's not what you meant, so be it. Thanx for clarifying.

===================================================
Who ?? Me

There IS a small,, well maybe not so small "group" that is doing this.
Who has repressed many of the discoveries in the United States.. from the "giants" uncovered in their burial mounds to any of the discoveries made during the "golden years" of discovery in this country.

ANYTHING that falls out of the "normal accepted" (by them) roles in history is conveniently tucked away.
There are also many museums that follow this example too,,if it relates to any Pre-Columbus discovery in North America.
I can understand it in part,, especially if funding is involved, but to deny that the Chinese or any other group came to the North American continent is ridiculous.
Especially when there is supporting evidence of that "visit" by that group.

There is much we are not being told about those who lived here in ancient times,, why ? ,,, I have no idea.
I particularly am interested in the LENAPE stories,, the 5 "Ws",, Who,,What,,Where,,When and Why.
Apparently there is a very strong NORSE relation with this group.

Hit