Legality questions for Florida

[EMTFlorida]

Hey guys,

So as far as I understand, metal detecting or digging in any underwater areas is illegal and the property of the state.

So how did Mel Fischer find all of the ship wrecks, uncover treasure, and not get in trouble for it? Have laws just simply changed since then?

What can someone do, like myself, who wants to start treasure hunting and diving wreck sites? Am I just simply not allowed to metal detect or disturb anything I find? Seems a bit unfair.

I've called all around the county - Clerk of Courts, police department, tax collector, etc. and no one seems to know the legalities of metal detecting around here - I'm in st augustine, florida. But I did read online about the federal laws prohibiting digging in state owned parks.

Any help is appreciated.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[penzfan]

Florida puts kibosh on sandy treasure hunting - Watchdog.org

 

[Tom_in_CA]

penzfan, it's links like that , that simply "fuel the flame" of getting people rushing off to various desk-bound bureaucrats, calling city halls, asking every ranger "can I?", etc... And then guess what happens ? It simply becomes a self-fulfilling vicious loop. Like the article says: some cities are now "getting into the act". Why ? I'll betcha dollars to donuts it's because well-meaning md's perpetually showing up at their desks asking "can I?". Conjuring up all sorts of supposed ills. For something that .... prior to all these "pressing inquiries", was probably considered innocuous and harmless.

Far from reading some sort of "doom and gloom" into the desired effect of that link: If you'll read closely, it's NOT saying md'ing is dis-allowed. And for pete's sakes, notice the type people their quoting for their dire-sounding comments: Archies! Well go figure: of COURSE archies will paint our hobby in a bad light. That's like asking a PETA rep. if you can leave your pet bunny in the car while you run into 7-11 to get a slurpee.

Last I checked, there's no shortage of people md'ing the beaches of Florida, so I wish scary articles like this (which just stir up fears and grovelling amongst the newbies) would just get nixed. Sorry for the rant.

 

[austin]

Ask a lawyer or call the Feds. They will tell you...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ask a lawyer or call the Feds. They will tell you...

Sure. And pepper your question with references to "take", "remove", "dig", "holes", and "indian bone". Lest they not understand the full implications of your question

 

[EMTFlorida]

Ask a lawyer or call the Feds. They will tell you...

St Augustine Police Department said it's fine. I asked for her name and told her I'd hold her to it. She said happy detecting and good luck...

City Manager assistant told me it's illegal to metal detect on any public lands in st augustine but that the city does not own the beach. She did not clearly state I could metal detect on the beach, but just said their laws about not metal detecting did not apply to the beach...

My biggest question is regarding the beaches at Fort Matanzas. Fort Matanzas is a national park, so it's federal land. However, according to google maps, there boundaries end at the beach line. The only areas that are green and 'federal' are the land areas. The beach is greyed or yellowed which, I'd assume, means you can metal detect on their beach too (this is where the Matanzas massacre occurred and there's tons of treasures to find out there, I'm sure). SO I contacted the Fort who put me in touch with the law enforcement officer; had to leave a voicemail. no call back, yet. I'll update when I know something, in case anyone else is curious.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....I asked for her name and told her I'd hold her to it. .....

That would seem like the fastest way to get a no. Or a yes turned to a no. Such an implication (taking their name and #, and telling them you'll hold them to it) will simply conjur up their imagination of what could go wrong. That their b*tt is on the line for whatever you do, etc...

There was actually the story on the forum of a fellow who did exactly as you did. The clerk could find nothing specifically saying "no detecting." So she tells him: "I guess you're ok then". The fellow says "Thanx, please put that in writing" and/or "what's your name in case I get questioned or griped at", etc.....

So when the man left, the clerk took the matter up with her supervisor. Guess what proposed park rule appeared at the next city council meeting for approval ? Yup, you guessed it: a no-detecting rule. Doh! So be careful.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... SO I contacted the Fort who put me in touch with the law enforcement officer; had to leave a voicemail. no call back, yet. I'll update when I know something, in case anyone else is curious.

Curious EMT: What if they said "no", but didn't cite any chapter or verse saying such a thing ? Would you be within your right to say "but where is that written?" (to ensure they're not just giving an arbitrary whimsical mood driven answer?) . I would hope/think that you would expect that their answer would be based on law, not whim or personal mood. Right ? Ok then: What's to stop you from looking it up yourself then ?

 

[EMTFlorida]

update from Fort Matanzas: Park rangers say it is ILLEGAL to metal detect on their beaches, even though google maps shows the beaches in a yellow/gray area and NOT green. They state that "google maps cannot be an accurate representation of boundaries for the national parks." So Fort Matanzas, no metal detecting on Land , obviously, OR beaches. The beaches ACROSS from Fort Matanzas, over the bridge, near homes, its perfectly fine, from main water line to toe of dune.

Also illegal to metal detect any public land in st augustine without written permission from the City Manager.

so now ...

Can you metal detect public land in Palatka or Jacksonville?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

update from Fort Matanzas: Park rangers say it is ILLEGAL to metal detect on their beaches, even though google maps shows the beaches in a yellow/gray area and NOT green. They state that "google maps cannot be an accurate representation of boundaries for the national parks." So Fort Matanzas, no metal detecting on Land , obviously, OR beaches. The beaches ACROSS from Fort Matanzas, over the bridge, near homes, its perfectly fine, from main water line to toe of dune.

Also illegal to metal detect any public land in st augustine without written permission from the City Manager.

so now ...

Can you metal detect public land in Palatka or Jacksonville?

so now ...

Can you metal detect public land in Palatka or Jacksonville?

Research the laws for Palatka and Jacksonville, odds are you can. St Augustine is a special case due to the heritage......

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Research the laws for Palatka and Jacksonville, odds are you can. St Augustine is a special case due to the heritage......

I agree. It's actually quite rare, across the USA, that ANY cities or counties ever dreamed up something so specific, as an actual "no detecting" rule . Unlike state and fed. level, where ... sure, you can drum up cultural heritage, or specific no md'ing rules . But on a city level, you're right: It's actually quite rare. Like in the entire state of CA, I can think of only 1 or 2 that truly had such a thing. And another 3 or 4 that ever dreamed up to issue a "permit". AND THAT'S OUT OF HUNDREDS OF CITIES. The rest are simply silent on the subject (and best left that way).

However, I betcha that if someone went to those cities of Palatka and Jacksonville, and asked far enough up the the chain, of enough pencil pushers, using the right combination of phrase-words, they could probably find someone to tell them "no you can't". Or "with the city manager's permission only".

 

[Fletch88]

update from Fort Matanzas: Park rangers say it is ILLEGAL to metal detect on their beaches, even though google maps shows the beaches in a yellow/gray area and NOT green. They state that "google maps cannot be an accurate representation of boundaries for the national parks." So Fort Matanzas, no metal detecting on Land , obviously, OR beaches. The beaches ACROSS from Fort Matanzas, over the bridge, near homes, its perfectly fine, from main water line to toe of dune.

Also illegal to metal detect any public land in st augustine without written permission from the City Manager.

so now ...

Can you metal detect public land in Palatka or Jacksonville?

No Jax beach is completely off limits! Don't even drive by it with a detector or they will confiscate everything in your car! Lol

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No Jax beach is completely off limits! Don't even drive by it with a detector or they will confiscate everything in your car! Lol

And next, fletch will even give you examples of these people who've had everything in their car confiscated, for the act of having had a detector in their car!

 

[Fletch88]

I hope he knows I am just throwing a little humor his way, since that is one of the beaches I frequent without ever wondering if it was illegal to detect! Or kite surf, throw a frisbee, fish, boogie board etc! My first few trips I was a little hesitant mostly because of fear of being discovered by the local "piratey" looking guys that I was a newbie with not a clue of what I was doing!

EMT, basically all public beaches are fine along Florida coastline. If you are ever around the treasure coast stay out of the water and for goodness sake do not go to a historically sensitive area and start detecting. Otherwise have fun and enjoy the scenery! A good pair of sunglasses are a must!

 

[EMTFlorida]

I hope he knows I am just throwing a little humor his way, since that is one of the beaches I frequent without ever wondering if it was illegal to detect! Or kite surf, throw a frisbee, fish, boogie board etc! My first few trips I was a little hesitant mostly because of fear of being discovered by the local "piratey" looking guys that I was a newbie with not a clue of what I was doing!

EMT, basically all public beaches are fine along Florida coastline. If you are ever around the treasure coast stay out of the water and for goodness sake do not go to a historically sensitive area and start detecting. Otherwise have fun and enjoy the scenery! A good pair of sunglasses are a must!

in the water is OK outside of treasure coast? I was told for st Augustine only the 'toe of the dune to the main water line.'

I get the whole "I'll do what I want to do it's a free country I'm only metal detecting it's not illegal" type/concept mentality, but many of the police officers here are quite young, and there's a lot of older folk that have nothing better to do but file complaints against people. So that's why I want to know the for sure law because even if the law is in YOUR favor, it doesn't mean a cop can't arrest you for it and let the judge figure it out.

 

[Fletch88]

I have only hunted the huge wet sand at low tide there. The surf from Jax to Daytona 9 times out of 10 is so rough you cannot think about trying to detect in it. I have found the waiting for low tide and hunting what was underwater at higher part of tides usually only yields a lot of stale sand.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....I was told for st Augustine only the 'toe of the dune to the main water line....

And so too will you discover that you can get 7 different answers when you ask 5 different authorities.

.... lot of older folk that have nothing better to do but file complaints against people. So that's why I want to know the for sure law because even if the law is in YOUR favor, it doesn't mean a cop can't arrest you for it and let the judge figure it out.

This totally makes sense, if the conclusion you're concluding in, is true. I mean, if A) the older folks sit around waiting to gripe as your surmise, thus B) "you will be arrested", therefore C) when the "judge figures it out", you want to be sure you have some type of express allowance/law in your favor.

But since when is such an end-conclusion a "given" ? I do NOT see all these md'rs "getting arrested on Florida beaches" as you seem to envision. I'm not saying there's some possible do's and don't there. But on the other hand, I think you're way-over-thinking this. If you have people here telling you point blank "there's no problem, we detect such & such all the time", why isn't that sufficient ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

example for you EMT: Let's say that you're walking through New York Central Park. You chance upon the giant reflecting ponds/lakes there on a busy Saturday, and see scores of people out using their RC control model toy boats on the water. You think "that looks like fun! I think I'll go home, get my RC controlled model boat, and join these hobbyists".

You wouldn't think "gee is this legal ?" and start asking all sorts of city, state, and federal NY people would you ? No. Of course not. Because you see all these other people who've done it for years, right in broad daylight, so it never OCCURS to you to wonder "gee is this legal" ?

So in the same fashion, when you have multiple people telling you that scores of them detect such & such beaches no problem in FL, why do you feel the need to keep asking higher and higher up the bureaucratic chain ?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

in the water is OK outside of treasure coast? I was told for st Augustine only the 'toe of the dune to the main water line.'

I get the whole "I'll do what I want to do it's a free country I'm only metal detecting it's not illegal" type/concept mentality, but many of the police officers here are quite young, and there's a lot of older folk that have nothing better to do but file complaints against people. So that's why I want to know the for sure law because even if the law is in YOUR favor, it doesn't mean a cop can't arrest you for it and let the judge figure it out.

I have hunted the public beach at St Augustine with no problems at all... The state park is off limits..

Just go detecting EMT,

 

[penzfan]

And this is one more reason I prefer to hunt at sunrise before all the idiots invade MY privacy...