Colonial forum anyone?

[Eastcoasthunter21]

Hello all I gave had this co versation with scrappy ,bartek and a few others
I believe the " colonial period should end at the beginning of the Industrial revolution.
That is when I think the big changes of life in america
And I like all of your finds , but y personal interest is colonial era history. For me up till around 1830
(Who don't like seated coins )/

Great idea out door ADV I would visit it daily

 

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[OutdoorAdv]

The Thirteen Colonies were a group of British colonies on the east coast of North America founded in the 17th and 18th centuries that declared independence in 1776 and formed the United States. The thirteen were: Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Georgia, Connecticut, Massachusetts Bay, Maryland, South Carolina, New Hampshire, Virginia, New York, North Carolina, and Rhode Island and Providence Plantations.


Jamestown, Virginia, settled in 1607
French and Indian War/Seven Years' War, 1754–63

before I consider putting in an official request,
What should the description say Specifically ?


if you hunt Jamestown period, French & Indian war
1492 to 1776 ?

or didn't the Colonial period start till the 17th century ? (1600's )

what is the official "Colonial Period"

It sounds like people want this to encompass all three of these periods in American History.

Colonial America (1492-1763)
Revolutionary Period (1764-1789)
Young Republic or New Nation (1790-1815)

Many refer to anything 1799 and before as "Colonial" even though that's not textbook accurate.

Perhaps its named "Colonial and Early American"
With a description of: "A forum dedicated to the sharing and discussion of Colonial and Early American artifacts, from European settlement until 1820."

That seems to wrap up all periods that people seem interested in. However, I'd like to get some feedback on the name and description proposition before it moves forward. As with any forum, it will only be successful if people post in there, and if the name and description is not accurate, it wont work!

 

[Iron Patch]

Call it "North American Colonial" because that includes up to 1867. That way it's going to basically be up to the discretion of the poster, and obviously with the word Colonial no one is going to be posting Indian heads. And to steal a page out of Tom's playbook, why should the Canadian Colonial period be discriminated against! There's no way you could set the timeline at 1776, or even 1812 because there's just too many things you can't date that tightly, and many people are way off in dating. Just think of how many times you seen someone post... "hunted a 1600s (or 1700s) site today!" ..and all the finds were 1830s or 1840s. Not to mention none of these sub forums seem to be very busy so if you make the posting guideline too strict it would be doomed from the beginning. So my suggestion is as I said call it North American Colonial and let people post finds based on what Colonial means to them. If an American posts an 1860s sash buckle, or a Canadian an 1890s watch fob, well that's a good opportunity for some to learn about what their items date, and what this forum is all about. And no I don't mean two sets of rules for whether you are American or Canadian, but you actually could make a little bit of an argument for that given the different history. You guys should be able to post a 1790s Kentucky cent, but I should also be able to post an 1820s Bust & Harp token or an 1830s Nova Scotia Thistle token, as both are Canadian Colonial tokens. Anyway, that's my thoughts on it all.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

Call it "North American Colonial" because that includes up to 1867. That way it's going to basically be up to the discretion of the poster, and obviously with the word Colonial no one is going to be posting Indian heads. And to steal a page out of Tom's playbook, why should the Canadian Colonial period be discriminated against! There's no way you could set the timeline at 1776, or even 1812 because there's just too many things you can't date that tightly, and many people are way off in dating. Just think of how many times you seen someone post... "hunted a 1600s (or 1700s) site today!" ..and all the finds were 1830s or 1840s. Not to mention none of these sub forums seem to be very busy so if you make the posting guideline too strict it would be doomed from the beginning. So my suggestion is as I said is call it North American Colonial and let people post finds based on what Colonial means to them. If an American posts an 1860s sash buckle, or a Canadian an 1890s watch fob, well that's a good opportunity for some to learn about what their items date, and what this forum is all about. And no I don't mean two sets of rules for whether you are American or Canadian, but you actually could make a little bit of an argument for that given the different history. You guys should be able to post a 1790s Kentucky cent, but I should also be able to post an 1820s Bust & Harp token, as it is a Canadian Colonial token. Anyway, that's my thoughts on it all.

Agreed! Great points.

 

[Ahab8]

Call it "North American Colonial" because that includes up to 1867. That way it's going to basically be up to the discretion of the poster, and obviously with the word Colonial no one is going to be posting Indian heads. And to steal a page out of Tom's playbook, why should the Canadian Colonial period be discriminated against! There's no way you could set the timeline at 1776, or even 1812 because there's just too many things you can't date that tightly, and many people are way off in dating. Just think of how many times you seen someone post... "hunted a 1600s (or 1700s) site today!" ..and all the finds were 1830s or 1840s. Not to mention none of these sub forums seem to be very busy so if you make the posting guideline too strict it would be doomed from the beginning. So my suggestion is as I said call it North American Colonial and let people post finds based on what Colonial means to them. If an American posts an 1860s sash buckle, or a Canadian an 1890s watch fob, well that's a good opportunity for some to learn about what their items date, and what this forum is all about. And no I don't mean two sets of rules for whether you are American or Canadian, but you actually could make a little bit of an argument for that given the different history. You guys should be able to post a 1790s Kentucky cent, but I should also be able to post an 1820s Bust & Harp token or an 1830s Nova Scotia Thistle token, as both are Canadian Colonial tokens. Anyway, that's my thoughts on it all.

Agree completely that the great finds from all my northern buddies should be part of this forum. I still think the timeline is going to be tough to nail down. But you guys know I like the early stuff. I think this will reignite some passion from those of us that really enjoy the earlier history. And I truly appreciate the mods getting behind this idea and helping to shape the outcome. Tnet at its best

 

[screwynewy]

Call it "North American Colonial" because that includes up to 1867. That way it's going to basically be up to the discretion of the poster, and obviously with the word Colonial no one is going to be posting Indian heads. And to steal a page out of Tom's playbook, why should the Canadian Colonial period be discriminated against! There's no way you could set the timeline at 1776, or even 1812 because there's just too many things you can't date that tightly, and many people are way off in dating. Just think of how many times you seen someone post... "hunted a 1600s (or 1700s) site today!" ..and all the finds were 1830s or 1840s. Not to mention none of these sub forums seem to be very busy so if you make the posting guideline too strict it would be doomed from the beginning. So my suggestion is as I said call it North American Colonial and let people post finds based on what Colonial means to them. If an American posts an 1860s sash buckle, or a Canadian an 1890s watch fob, well that's a good opportunity for some to learn about what their items date, and what this forum is all about. And no I don't mean two sets of rules for whether you are American or Canadian, but you actually could make a little bit of an argument for that given the different history. You guys should be able to post a 1790s Kentucky cent, but I should also be able to post an 1820s Bust & Harp token or an 1830s Nova Scotia Thistle token, as both are Canadian Colonial tokens. Anyway, that's my thoughts on it all.

Very good points. I love the idea of a subforum dedicated to early finds. Keep in mind that there are probably only 20 or so regular colonial relic hunters that post on the site so it probably won't get a lot of traffic but for us hard core colonial hunters it will be nice to have a place where we can post our finds and they don't get buried under all of the clad and coin roll hunter post after 12 hours.

 

[Scrappy]

I've done some chatting with various Tnet members and read a lot of great replies to this post.

First off, excellent idea Brad. North American Colonial forum is an excellent way to label such a forum. IP is spot on with both the name and by also including Canadian colonial. It's my hope however, that people have the sense to see the difference between an 1843 Upper Canadian Bank token and an 1843 US large cent. And like IP said, if we implement rules with dates or make people apprehensive to post because they don't know the date, we would be bound to fail.

That said, perhaps an explanation of the forum is "Relics connected or pertaining to the North American Colonial Period". Perhaps that would help members decide better where they should post. It would also present a grey line instead of a 10' fence.

Those are my thoughts. I like the way this is coming together and hope everyone continues their input.

Steve

 

[Iron Patch]

I've done some chatting with various Tnet members and read a lot of great replies to this post.

First off, excellent idea Brad. North American Colonial forum is an excellent way to label such a forum. IP is spot on with both the name and by also including Canadian colonial. It's my hope however, that people have the sense to see the difference between an 1843 Upper Canadian Bank token and an 1843 US large cent. And like IP said, if we implement rules with dates or make people apprehensive to post because they don't know the date, we would be bound to fail.

That said, perhaps an explanation of the forum is "Relics connected or pertaining to the North American Colonial Period". Perhaps that would help members decide better where they should post. It would also present a grey line instead of a 10' fence.

Those are my thoughts. I like the way this is coming together and hope everyone continues their input.

Steve

I wasn't thinking when I gave my examples using coins if this is just about relics. You could however set a strict time line and guideline for coins... would be just a few lines. Has to be dug in North America... American up to this date... Canadian up to this date. etc. etc.

 

[jeff of pa]

if added it would be placed in the Artifact Forums

we already have coins Forum. I suppose certain Coins can cross into the description as Artifacts .

since you's seem to be mirroring the dates.
I am also wondering how close


Fur Trade Artifacts
A place to discuss anything related to the Fur Trade Era 1660 - 1840
(buttons, rings, glass beads, brass, iron axes and hoes, Jews harps,
gun parts, peace metals, trade silver)




is to colonial artifacts and that perhaps the title just be changed to
Colonial & Fur Trade artifacts ?

 

[OutdoorAdv]

if added it would be placed in the Artifact Forums

we already have coins Forum. I suppose certain Coins can cross into the description as Artifacts .

since you's seem to be mirroring the dates.
I am also wondering how close


Fur Trade Artifacts
A place to discuss anything related to the Fur Trade Era 1660 - 1840
(buttons, rings, glass beads, brass, iron axes and hoes, Jews harps,
gun parts, peace metals, trade silver)




is to colonial artifacts and that perhaps the title just be changed to
Colonial & Fur Trade artifacts ?

While they have some overlapping dates, I think having "Fur Trade" in the title of what we are suggesting would be confusing. I think a new forum would be best, or if you rename that forum take "Fur Trade" completely out and use IPs name "North American Colonial"

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Scrappy]

While they have some overlapping dates, I think having "Fur Trade" in the title of what we are suggesting would be confusing. I think a new forum would be best, or if you rename that forum take "Fur Trade" completely out and use IPs name "North American Colonial"

Thoughts anyone?

I agree Brad - North American Colonial is a broad subject, very important historically, and should have its own forum IMHO. Fur trade should stay fur trade

IP suggested coin dates for both the US and Canada. On one hand I think this would help tremendously, but hard coin dates may also touch off arguments on what constitutes "colonial", or what dates coins on this forum should be. I suggest, with a tweak:


Coins and relics connected or pertaining to the North American Colonial period.

That's about all my thoughts. What's everyone else think?

Steve

 

[FreeBirdTim]

"On May 29, 1790, Rhode Island voted by two votes to ratify the document, and the last of the original 13 colonies joined the United States. Today the U.S. Constitution is the oldest written constitution in operation in the world"

This vote in 1790 marked the official end of the 13 colonies, so maybe that should be the cutoff date. If you want to call the forum "The Colonial Forum", that is...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

1778 the Articles of Confederation was ratified which is when the first national government was formed and the country was named "The United States Of America".. Colonies ceased to exist then.... They were under this government till 1787 when the 2nd national government was established by the Constitution.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

I agree Brad - North American Colonial is a broad subject, very important historically, and should have its own forum IMHO. Fur trade should stay fur trade

IP suggested coin dates for both the US and Canada. On one hand I think this would help tremendously, but hard coin dates may also touch off arguments on what constitutes "colonial", or what dates coins on this forum should be. I suggest, with a tweak:


Coins and relics connected or pertaining to the North American Colonial period.

That's about all my thoughts. What's everyone else think?

Steve

Sounds like this ideas evolving nicely with a lot of feedback. Based on the latest suggestions here is my idea for the modified forum name and description.

Name: "North American Colonial"
Description: "A forum dedicated to the sharing and discussion of North American Colonial artifacts, from the European settlement in North America until the Canadian Confederation."

(IP, you'll need to correct me if "Canadian Confederation" is the wrong term. I googled and thats the term that appeared to be used when the British Colonies were united)

 

[Iron Patch]

Sounds like this ideas evolving nicely with a lot of feedback. Based on the latest suggestions here is my idea for the modified forum name and description.

Name: "North American Colonial"
Description: "A forum dedicated to the sharing and discussion of North American Colonial artifacts, from the European settlement in North America until the Canadian Confederation."

(IP, you'll need to correct me if "Canadian Confederation" is the wrong term. I googled and thats the term that appeared to be used when the British Colonies were united)

I would just change it slightly because the end sounds like Canada is not part of North America.

Description: "A forum dedicated to the sharing and discussion of North American Colonial artifacts from the first European settlement in North America, through the Revolution, and up until the Canadian Confederation."


I think coins should be part of it as Colonial is Colonial... and on 2nd thought would have no issue with the coins having a cut off date... somewhere around pre 1792 would maybe sense... although I doubt anyone would object to a Disme being posted! So that would establish what coins could be posted, and you could do the same thing for the military finds, but if you did it by the wars and said something like... only Rev war... then that would be no different than the section that already exists. So I say in keeping with the North American theme you limit it to one piece buttons, that sets the time from at about 1840 at the very latest. For buckles and badges you just say pre Civil War, as anything before that is going to be interesting. So that really just leaves misc. relics and and everyone can use their own judgement and post what they feel fits with the guidelines already set forth.

 

[T.C.]

Tom there is no voting and your attacking members posting colonial finds..

I think he was just kidding.....

 

[T.C.]

where I live there are no Civil war battle fields.
Does this mean a Civil war section is discriminating against Me ?
there are no Shipwrecks in the local Dam, Or Gold Prospecting.

Sorry But the world of TreasureNet doesn't revolve around you Tom

You Mods have got yer shorts on too tight this morning!!

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Technically, the term “colonial” is defined as the period in our country’s history occurring before 1776 when the 13 colonies were under British rule. I believe that artifacts found in the US prior to the Rev War should be kept in a special category by themselves as they're related to our earliest settlers and the struggles they endured. However, since it's hard to differentiate between items from the 1770s and the end of the century due to a continuation of prevailing culture and styles, I personally like to consider anything dating prior to 1800 as "colonial". With that said, I would like to see the proposed forum dedicated to artifacts dating ONLY to the 18th century or earlier. If a 2nd forum is needed for the period 1800 up to the beginning of the Civil War, I'm all for that. Actually, what's known as the Antebellum era dates from 1800 to 1860 which fits this time frame perfectly so an "Antebellum Artifacts" forum would properly cover the post-colonial period if needed. I don't think it would be a good idea to mix these categories as they're not related at all IMO. Besides, Brad's original suggestion was to create a "colonial" forum due to the great interest shown for that period by a significant number of posters, and anything post-1800 does not technically qualify. Also, in the book I'm currently writing about "Virginia's Colonial Artifacts", I've decided to limit the time frame to before 1800 which I believe is the most sensible break point. And I don't have any objections to posting items from Canada or other countries in the new colonial forum, but they should conform to whatever date requirements are established.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

I was talking to another member about this new forum idea and I realized something that I wanted to put out there and see what people think.

As you guys probably know, my typical detecting and sifting hunts turn up a variety of artifacts dating from the Colonial period, up through the early to mid Antebellum period. I like to put all my stuff from a hunt together for a post. I might find some tombacs, pewters, bone handles, KG, shoe buckle frame pieces... and then a LC, brass flat buttons, or CW Button... or even an early 1800's Spanish Silver (rarely. haha)

Would we allow a group variety like that to go in this new forum section? In other words, would the requirement be that the majority of the finds fall into the category of "North American Colonial" for the post to be valid? It would stink to have to split my hunt up into two posts, but at the same time we wouldn't want a post in the new Colonial section to be just CW buttons and a couple Large Cents... since that isn't Colonial at all.

Thoughts?

 

[Iron Patch]

I was talking to another member about this new forum idea and I realized something that I wanted to put out there and see what people think.

As you guys probably know, my typical detecting and sifting hunts turn up a variety of artifacts dating from the Colonial period, up through the early to mid Antebellum period. I like to put all my stuff from a hunt together for a post. I might find some tombacs, pewters, bone handles, KG, shoe buckle frame pieces... and then a LC, brass flat buttons, or CW Button... or even an early 1800's Spanish Silver (rarely. haha)

Would we allow a group variety like that to go in this new forum section? In other words, would the requirement be that the majority of the finds fall into the category of "North American Colonial" for the post to be valid? It would stink to have to split my hunt up into two posts, but at the same time we wouldn't want a post in the new Colonial section to be just CW buttons and a couple Large Cents... since that isn't Colonial at all.

Thoughts?

I think what most would do is make their usual finds post on the today's finds forum, but then just post the stuff that fits for here... like a specialty forum.