Is history being rewritten or are historians wrong?

[neo]

I've seen lots of sites claiming to debunk the west and how it wasn't like anything its been portrayed in books, movies etc. However I've recently been into metal detecting and while researching places using lots of older books that supposedly tell things from first hand accounts of people living in that time and there stories seem to tell it as a violent lawless place. On another note I keep reading that only capt Kidd buried treasure and pirates really didn't do that but I have many books from some famous treasure hunters that seem to contradict historians claims. If the past is being rewritten who's doing it and what's there endgame?

 

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[d2]

History revisionist's. I have no idea why people try and in some cases do change people's thoughts and idea's on how stuff happened or why it happened that way. Like crazy people that say the Holocaust didn't happen. How many pictures of dead Jewish people with natzi's standing around does one need to see to think that it did NOT happen? I despise stupid people and their idea's...d2

 

[Hitndahed]

Google this term,,,

MANDELA EFFECT

https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophe...ake-you-ques?utm_term=.dqG1q6lYRY#.muQ95vYlKl

Are you living in an alternate reality? Welcome to the wacky world of the 'Mandela Effect'

This is a strange phenomenon..

 

[controlfreq]

The future is controlled by those that control the past. The past is controlled by those that control the present

-- Eric Blair (aka George Orwell)

"play it again Sam"

 

[Escape]

You can't even get an accurate rendition of the present, let alone the past.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

It's not the historians that are wrong. Hollywood shapes our contemporary "understanding" of what happened.

Kidd was commissioned to hunt down pirates. He captured an Indian ship with French papers (he thought "legally") but politics turned against him and he was not allowed to present the documents he captured during his trial. His backers were parliament/royal peers and it would have embarrassed them and he was used in a whig vs. tory political battle. The treasure - mostly trade good like spices and fabric - he did try and hold to bargain with but, as far as we know, it was recovered from Gardiner's Island, NY (stored - not buried). The ships manifest exists so the cargo is known.

He was not a Hollywood pirate. He was also found guilty upon returning to England of murder for hitting one of his crew in the head with a bucket during an argument - the crewman wanted to attack a dutch merchant and Kidd refused because they were a friendly flagged ship.

There is an excellent (historically researched and footnoted) book by Richard Zacks titeled "The Pirate Hunter: the True Story of Captain Kidd".

 

[Limitool]

History revisionist's. I have no idea why people try and in some cases do change people's thoughts and idea's on how stuff happened or why it happened that way. Like crazy people that say the Holocaust didn't happen. How many pictures of dead Jewish people with natzi's standing around does one need to see to think that it did NOT happen? I despise stupid people and their idea's...d2

Then stay the hell away from this thread... This guy is OUT THERE! http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/p...an-we-trust-our-history-books-you-decide.html

 

[Old Bookaroo]

neo:

I was watching an old Republic pictures black and white oater a few weeks ago (Rawhide) and Tyrone Power's character took a minimum of thirteen shots at Jack Elam's character from a "six-shooter" (and we know smart gun toters back then never left a cartridge under the hammer of a single-action plowhandle) without reloading.

I very seriously doubt that happened in real life. Just as the classic Western street duel at high noon is almost entirely a figment of imagination. What is the OK Corral shootout famous? Certainly one reason is that didn't happen very often. Happily, neither did events such as the St. Valentine's Massacre.

Look at how the novel The Virginian influenced movies, tv shows and other novels. These are not the work of "historians." These are the work of people telling a story. Fiction. Not fact. There are a great many autobiographies, memoirs and reminiscences written by people who lived in the Old West. They are great reading and you can learn a lot. Is every one of them 100% factually correct? Nope. But they are more reliable than fiction. Six Guns and Saddle Leather and Burs Under the Saddle by Ramon F. Adams can go a long way toward helping you tell the difference.

It is true that Capt. Kidd buried a treasure when he was headed back to New York to face the music. Did he hide one or more chests of treasure up and down the Atlantic Seaboard in every cave from Maine to North Carolina and maybe south to Florida?

Nope.

Did other pirates bury treasure? Generally, not. Like almost all other criminals they stole and spent. Yes, some bank robbers, train robbers, bootleggers, swindlers, doctors and attorneys with unreported income, pirates, et al. did plant some plunder. I don't think Jesse James did. And savvy treasure hunters continue to uncover hidden blunt. But that was not the norm.

I very seriously doubt the Japanese army lost WW II because it was busy riddling the islands of the Philippines with booby-trapped treasure caves, leaving cryptic maps. Was war loot stashed away? Of course. The US Army cleaned up a huge pile of silver dollars in '98. There were some very lively poker games on the troop ship back to the states. Some of that remains to be found in Manila - not all was taken home.

Choosing between a professional historian with documented evidence and books written by "famous treasure hunters" isn't exactly a toughie. I'll hazard a guess you are referring to the body of literature produced by W.C. Jameson. Perhaps he was, at some time in the past, a treasure hunter. My personal preference is to read books and articles written by treasure finders.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[kayakpat]

Yes it is by tv, movies, internet and books by pushing a agenda. There are historical scholars and literature scholars from all walks of life and backgrounds that spend their lifetimes reading detail from public records, people's journals, and as much physical artifacts and tons and tons of academically a claimed books and verified historical records to tell you historical facts and accepted by acclaim by professional wide ranging historians and academic . TV and movies in the 40 50s and 60s really distorted the west. Research is NOT. Surfing the Internet and taking blogs, political foundations, and thinktanks, and other phoney crap on there put on by God knows who.... Movies , tv, and books. For the mass market are usually to make a profit or push a agenda and at best are very loosely based on maybe a broad or general bit of history but generally mostly bs.good luck. Always be suspicious and check the source and their background and you will get nearer to the truth

 

[kcm]

Yes it is by tv, movies, internet and books by pushing a agenda. There are historical scholars and literature scholars from all walks of life and backgrounds that spend their lifetimes reading detail from public records, people's journals, and as much physical artifacts and tons and tons of academically a claimed books and verified historical records to tell you historical facts and accepted by acclaim by professional wide ranging historians and academic . TV and movies in the 40 50s and 60s really distorted the west. Research is NOT. Surfing the Internet and taking blogs, political foundations, and thinktanks, and other phoney crap on there put on by God knows who.... Movies , tv, and books. For the mass market are usually to make a profit or push a agenda and at best are very loosely based on maybe a broad or general bit of history but generally mostly bs.good luck. Always be suspicious and check the source and their background and you will get nearer to the truth

To take this a little further, I remember watching a story that was told several times, each time a few months apart. It was told by the same news media; can't remember if the same person. Anyway, each time it was told, there was a spin on the emphasis towards whatever was being discussed at that moment. That's when I knew I couldn't trust the media anymore.

 

[whammy]

And then there was the " Twilight Zone "

 

[freepistol]

I like watching the hour Daniel Boone reruns. Interesting how he was so friendly with Rosey Greer and other "slaves" on the show and how he was a friend of them. The biography of him says he and Rebecca owned at least 7 slaves when he lived in Missouri {not 100% sure of the state}.

 

[T.C.]

The Real West used to be on the History channel about 20 years ago. It was our favorite....it featured a lot of historians and old pictures. I wish they would rerun it.....

 

[kcm]

I like watching the hour Daniel Boone reruns. Interesting how he was so friendly with Rosey Greer and other "slaves" on the show and how he was a friend of them. The biography of him says he and Rebecca owned at least 7 slaves when he lived in Missouri {not 100% sure of the state}.

Just bought that series (on DVD) for the wife. Is good (clean) entertainment, but definitely not something you want in the history books!

 

[Duckshot]

If you pay attention to our culture you can actually watch our history change and see exactly how it is done.

Take for instance-

The UW Madison took down some historic painting of Indians because some felt them offensive to Indians. These were NOT Indians complaining but they had come to their conclusion and want to "help" north american Indians- by stereotyping them to be offended?

This is how the past is erased, or at least smeared into something other than what it was.

(Deleted by mod for rule violation)

When culture changes the facts of history do not change so much as society's perception of events change. The way stories are told change from how they used to be told.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

I don't think it is the job of science to replicate events.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has created a hurricane. But I'm convinced they exist.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Duckshot]

Yeah, but you can see a hurricane.

I'll tell you something about what no one sees, Old Buckaroo. There are only two kinds of faith, faith in The Divine, and faith in Man. If and when it come to it, which one you chose to place more faith in is up to you.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Duckshot:

There are a great many kinds of faith. Just as there are a great many religions. Personally, my faith is in facts.

Some people form firmly held views, opinions and beliefs. And then seek out and select information to back them up.

Others gather facts and then form views and opinions. Faith and belief are seldom reality-based.


Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Duckshot]

I don't think it is the job of science to replicate events. (Snippet)

Belief in that which cannot be repeated is a matter of faith. How do you know for sure that you saw what you thought you saw? So, I'd say science, which is faith in man, puts a lot of faith into repetition.

 

[SusanMN]

I don't think that historians are wrong, nor that history is being rewritten. It's just that there many many different versions of history and our age has access to thousands of times more information than our ancestors did so we are presented with much more conflicting information than ever before