it only takes ONE---- and I found one total #*^@%$&

[Duckshot]

Awe bull crap Tom in Ca!

Keep detecting. Do not bring any identification whatsoever. This aint Europe. You are not required to carry identificaton. By law you must identify yourself verbally when asked by a LEO. You have no legal obligation to prove your identity.

Let Billy Boy try to get a LEO to arrest you a municipal citation that does not exist. File a civil suit against the city/town, village police department for violating your civil rights.

That's what puts a stop to this kind of trespass against the people.

 

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[Oddjob]

you may ask yourself----

why the lack of recent finds from the 2 months of diggin' Woodstock, NY

last week the Town of Woodstock Supervisor-- Bill McKenna--(a public figure), advised me that I could no longer hunt the trails, sports fields or any "manicured lawn" due to the risk of injury from falling in a hole.

this is after well over 500 holes and massive amounts of modern trash were removed from the Town DIRT --- that's right--- horrific damage done to DIRT

there are no holes--- just filled & STOMPED dig areas.

the Duty Sergeant of the Town PD says, even absent a local ordinance--- I must comply with the "demand"

my current mental state says I should take some video of the grounds that I dug and post it to the Town website or Facebook for the evidence that proves Mr. McKenna is a vapid, clueless,

there is no "slander" here _______________________JUST THE FACTS that puny political hacks can and will infringe on your "pursuit of happiness" and any other activity that "offends" them

GOD HELP US ALL

the Town will still allow use of narcotics in public, bums sleeping on benches along Tinker Street, drunks & dopers will leave their trash behind, AND______________ the "Hollyweirds" will be lauded for their "talent"--- ala Harvey

just my opinion---

I did not bother reading the other posts, si if I say something that has been said then sorry.

I get your mad, make most MDers mad. But posting a vid on the town site or FB and the Town Sup may take that as a person direct and very public insult.

However if you gather your evidence, like the amount you would to make the IRS just let you go, and then ask him for a private meeting to present your one on one stance (avoid using the term case to keep it friendly), if that Sup allows the meeting then you are 50% home free and the rest is up to you and your presentation but also what solutions you can provide, like needing a permit or direct written permission from him-

Just saying, you take it public and thats like hunting squirrel with hand grenades, over kill or it could come back on you.

 

[RustyGold]

Run against him on the next election. Give the people someone better.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... try to get a LEO to arrest you a municipal citation that does not exist. ....

Ok, sure: When the odds are, it was a fluke to be ignored (after lip service a bit of a break from the spot), Sure: I would agree with that. HOWEVER: That's not to say that I'd FLAUNT it. Ie.: An "in-your-face" or "hey look what I'm doing" sort of attitide.

In other words, I'd take what you say (since there's no EXPRESS or SPECIFIC wording) and .... yes .... practice to see if it was just an isolated fluke. But I would also employ a little bit of common sense discretion, and pick low traffic times. Ie.: If that singular fellow "Bill" has known office hours, or the park personell (who might be appraised of this) have known shifts, well presto: Pick OTHER hours.

I know this sounds dastardly to some people. But to me, it's sort of like the old saying that our parents told us when we were kids: "Don't spit in people's holy water" (ie.: Even if you don't agree with someone, still respect their right to believe it). Notice that the old-time saying was NOT it's our job to: "Convince other people that their water isn't holy".

I am still waiting for Port-even-ace to tell us what precipitated all of this, in the first place.

 

[port ewen ace]

my 1st encounter with the complainer was a pleasant exchange of show & tell, at that time he expressed that he should get an MD to help cover the town budget. this was about 4 weeks and 500 holes earlier.
the day he objected was when I had a hole 8" across & 14" deep to recover this Colonial copper.

View attachment 1511391 View attachment 1511392

"no eye deer" what this thin 31MM coin WAS
I then covered the hole and left the area

in a phone call the next day Supervisor McKenna told me "he liked me", but regardless of what the PD said, he would pursue his complaint under NY Penal law, and barring that, he would make a complaint under NY Civil Law--- no eye deer what section of NY Civil Procedure Laws and Rules would apply here

stand by for upcoming video that I plan to show the wanton destruction I have wreaked upon the DIRT and graphic testimonials from the townspeople were have suffered irreparable physical and mental injury that my depraved indifference to human life has inflicted upon the LIBERAL Elites of Woodstock, NY

here be the Comeau Property owned by the town, a Colonial era farm of 70 acres. note the 3 miles of forest trails, vast hay field, Historic Society Museum, soccer fields that are over massive amounts of buried cans at a foot down, Town Hall and at lower left--- office of the Supervisor

just prepare yourself for the SHOCK & HORROR of the video when I show the UNGODLY damage I inflicted on THE DIRT--- coming soon

View attachment 1511400 View attachment 1511401 View attachment 1511402

any lawyers out there with NYS Bar privileges want to offer pro bono council to help us all keep our right to dig---- HEY____________I would even accept AL Sharpton

 

[Duckshot]

Gee Tom, I never said flaunt it, I said to continue detecting.

You see Tom unlike you I care about my fellow man. You go run and hide from them detecting at night. I will take the punch for you. And, IF somebody takes a swing at me, using force and coersion not to apply the law, to enforce their own selfish will on others. I will hit back with all my might. I enjoy it. I'm kinda sick that way.

 

[Loco-Digger]

Any idea as to how this came to be? Something must have happened to have this guy make a rule on no metal detecting.

Nothing has to happen.... I was hunting with my brother-in-law out of state one time. We found a park that once had a school on it. We got about 20 minutes into the hunt when a neighbor came yelling that we can't hunt there because they have youth soccer leagues coming up and he is afraid that a player might get injured due to one of our plugs by twisting an ankle or something. Instead of us adding to the scene that parent caused. we politely excused ourselves from the area and found another place to hunt.

I try to fly under the radar, when it comes to the hobby and pick and choose which hill I want to fight for or die on. As Tom states most city ordinances have language that can be used to cite anyone unless of course you are simply looking for surface finds. I find it better to walk away and come back another day.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... in a phone call the next day Supervisor McKenna told me "he liked me", but regardless of what ....

I'm still trying to understand why you in that phone call, to begin with. Or put another way: What brought about your activity to McKenna's attention, in the first place ? Eg.: was he waltzing by the park one day, and saw an md'r out there ? Or .... what ?

 

[Honest Samuel]

I would complain to the police chief, then if I have to, complain to the mayor. If that does not work, go detecting and let them arrest you and take you to court. It will never go to court. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Gee Tom, I never said flaunt it, I said to continue detecting.....

Yes. I know you didn't say "flaunt it". And I was in agreement with everything you wrote. I was just making that admonition not to flaunt (ie.: still-be-careful), for anyone ELSE who might interpret what you said, as a sort of in-your -face defiance to others. Because I've said what you're saying many times. And the common misinterpretation people get from that, is that you and I (people who propose this "just go" resolve) are somehow standing their demanding tickets, looking for an altercation, or whatever. But as you know, that is NOT what we are saying.

.... You go run and hide from them detecting at night....

Uhhh, you can phrase it that way if you want. But ... sheesk, don't we ALL sort of subconsciously use a little discretion in our hobby ? Ie.: so as to AT LEAST pick traffic times when you're less likely to run into nosy-parkers? Ie.: why swat hornet's nests ? Sort of like nose-picking: Not illegal. Nor do we "get permission". But ... sheesk, we pick discreet times so as not to offend the squeemish. Right ? That's all I'm saying for md'ing too.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Nothing has to happen.... I was hunting with ....

Loce-digger: But in that case, you DID explain "what happened". Ie.: In that case , it was someone who saw you at random, and didn't like it. There are other ways in which a person could come into play with persons who say "scram" or "no". And that's what I'm wondering in this case: What precipitated it ?

 

[Honest Samuel]

I would complain to the police chief, then if I have to, complain to the mayor. If that does not work, go detecting and let them arrest you and take you to court. It will never go to court. Good hunting and good luck.

This is worth repeating.

 

[Duckshot]

I would complain to the police chief, then if I have to, complain to the mayor. If that does not work, go detecting and let them arrest you and take you to court. It will never go to court. Good hunting and good luck.

That might work out very well IF you schedule an appointment with the chief and not not some lacky.

A few years back I had a conversation with a police chief about a parking ticket. Along with it being perfectly legal for me to have parked where I was, the stink of it is that the citing officer, an emlployee of The Chief of Police, had placed the citation inside my vehicle instead of under the wiper. Entering a home or vehicle without consent is a crime. I had no problems convincing the chief that it would not be in his best interest, or, in the best interest of his officers, IF a presiding Judge caught wind of a LEO manufacting citations out of whole cloth and entering vehicles without consent. He neither agreed nor disagreed with my verbal complaint, which he was required to record. He didn't. Instead he called me a day latter to inform me that the officer involved had voided the ticket. Also perfectly illegal.

Neither that chief or the officer involved are employed by that municipality any longer.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I would complain to the police chief, then if I have to, complain to the mayor. If that does not work, go detecting and let them arrest you and take you to court. It will never go to court. Good hunting and good luck.

Perhaps. Except that I would reverse the order you have those steps in. Because to go to the police and mayor WHEN IT'S NOT EVEN A SPECIFIC CODIFIED RULE, could backfire. Ie.: you could be "swatting hornets nests" to a "pressing matter" that ... quite frankly ... might cause them to invent a rule to "address your pressing issue".

Because all those authorities you list, .... let's face it ... might have images of "geeks with shovels". So do you REALLY think you're going to win that debate ?

Fellows: I have had .... in my 40-ish yrs. of this, 10 or 15 such "scrams". And ... oddly .... they're often at places where .... later on ... you can go back and no one ever said "boo" ever again. In other words: Some of these situations are isolated flukes . Or ... not sure about the OP's case, but their sometimes cases where the "no" came about, because the md'r went in there asking permission. Perhaps he got a "yes" (as the OP seems to indicate he had early tacit approval). But then later, when the md'r is perpetually "reporting in", the authority changes their mind. So you can see, that in cases like that .... that the LESS attention is better. Not the MORE attention.

 

[Indiana Mark]

Maybe it was mentioned and I missed it, but how about getting the historical society on your side?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Port Ewen, please keep all politics out of the thread per our rules.


Goldfinger, we have rules on language, please post by our rules.


All members, pleae post by our rules and please remember we are a family friendly forum. If you don't know our rules there is a link in my signature to our rules.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Maybe it was mentioned and I missed it, but how about getting the historical society on your side?

Yes and No. I'm a docent at a few museums, and attend historical society functions. So to do THAT does help. Eg.: be able to "name-drop" and "show your badge" (as if you're "doing research"). HOWEVER, to try to get higher-ups in historical societies to lend their good name or sanction you, etc..... is rare (and probably lacks-power in a case like the OP's here anyhow).

The reason why historical society alliances most-often don't work, is that museums and historical societies are often chaired (board of directors, etc...) by archaeologists. Ie.: preservation minded thinkers. And unfortunately, often-time they BRISTLE at metal detectors. You know the song & dance: "take things out of context" blah blah.

But as I say: In the case going on here, it has little to do with museums and history or research. It's all about (gasp) turf and digging.

 

[Loco-Digger]

Loce-digger: But in that case, you DID explain "what happened". Ie.: In that case , it was someone who saw you at random, and didn't like it. There are other ways in which a person could come into play with persons who say "scram" or "no". And that's what I'm wondering in this case: What precipitated it ?

The neighbor who saw us from his front window, who also coaches a team in the youth league, came across the street from his house to the park to confront me since I was the closest of us to him. I could have told him to go pound sand and then, probably have to face the local yokel police who he threatened to call if we continued to dig plugs. Like I stated we were out of state hunting. There are plenty of other places to hunt so I chose to not to stand and fight on this issue and use my time hunting somewhere else. Heck we weren't finding anything except modern coins anyways. If we were digging silvers or other keepers I may have acted differently, but I'm not going to make a stink over a site that's only giving up modern coins. I am not a right fighter unless the cause is worth the effort and this cause was not worth it in my mind.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The neighbor who saw us from his front window, who also coaches a team in the youth league, came across the street from his house to the park to confront me since I was the closest of us to him. I could have told him to go pound sand and then, probably have to face the local yokel police who he threatened to call if we continued to dig plugs. Like I stated we were out of state hunting. There are plenty of other places to hunt so I chose to not to stand and fight on this issue and use my time hunting somewhere else. Heck we weren't finding anything except modern coins anyways. If we were digging silvers or other keepers I may have acted differently, but I'm not going to make a stink over a site that's only giving up modern coins. I am not a right fighter unless the cause is worth the effort and this cause was not worth it in my mind.

Agreed. Lip service is always the best option . And you're right: The debate of semantics on "dig" vs "damage" vs "pop/probe" is never worth it.

The only time to fight it (debating mayors, police, etc...) is if a) the spot is prolific with choice silver, as you say, and b) there's no other way to avoid a singular griper. Ie.: you can't get back in UNLESS some true & enforced rule were over-turned.

 

[port ewen ace]

OK--- Tom in CA--- the copper was dug and shown to BILLY the 75 feet from his office, seems he looked out the window and saw me diggin' and came out to express horror that I was on the lawn behind the town hall.
odd that the night before, I dug a 16 inch hole next to a lamp post at the sidewalk entrance to the hall, and a town employee walked out and asked "findin' anything good?", then drove away. that hole has somehow, like all other holes ------ now become WHOLE_____ as in---- THERE AIN'T no hole to be found.

this should explain what instigated the outrage over my cruel and careless endangering of youts, toddlers, junkies, other miscreants and soccer dweebs as they trip and fall like Chevy Chase imitating the late President Gerald Ford------
and remember---- there are EXPOSED ROOTS and LORDY_____ ROCKS on forest hiking trails--- right next to a half inch of dirt scraped away to recover the 12 Barber & Mercury dimes that were found on the NOW BANNED trails

think I will send a case of stool softener to the Town staff______ for FREE