Winklevoss Twins on Bitcoin

[Dave Rishar]

How long do you think the government will put up with that?

I'm not sure that they have a choice in the matter anymore.

Just a matter of time before the Feds regulate cryptos to death.

I'll skip the legalities momentarily and focus on the practicalities. Practically speaking, how would they be able to do this? We're talking about an asset that doesn't physically exist, which is traded via any electronic method that you'd like, or even physically if you want to keep it old school. You could certainly exert control over the crypto/fiat interface at banks, but banks already don't exchange crypto for fiat. So what's left?

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: they can't make this go away. It's impossible.

 

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[Johnnybravo300]

I don't see how it would be impossible when they control everything. They can shut down the web, make it illegal, anything they want. I doubt they feel threatened at all by the aircoins and not that many people even use them yet.

They are probably enjoying the tax revenue from the pump and dump last year.

 

[Kansas_Jayhawk]

In some ways this stuff sounds like a pyramid scheme. The first people in make the money. The more people who get involved then the more people who will make money. Just don't be on of the last (60%) in or you will not make money. When you see bitcoin trinkets that everyone can obtain then it might take hold.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

How many actual transactions take place each day with Bitcoins? All I see are people buying and selling it like it's a commodity, such as gold. The few stories I've read of actual transactions have been horror stories. A guy sells his $35k car for that much in Bitcoin. By the time he can cash them out less than an hour later, he's lost a grand on the deal because Bitcoin dropped during the interim. Bottom line, it will never be a viable currency with volatile price fluctuations like that.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: they can't make this go away. It's impossible.

No one said it will go away, but it will be regulated (and taxed to death). But it will go away quickly if it's viewed as a scam by the powers that be. And if it's main purpose is to hide drug deals or launder money, then it's already on borrowed time...

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Even if it isn't used for illegal activities they can still use that excuse. In reality we only know what they choose to tell us.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Of course, Bitcoin isn't the only way to launder money. Check out these listings for canning jars. Why would 15 people pay $929.28 for 24 canning jars when you can buy the same jars for $38.34? Because they are laundering money with these "purchases". EBay does nothing about it and the Feds don't seem to care...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=mason+jar+24+half+pint&_sop=16&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=mason+jar+24+half+pint+set&_sacat=0

 

[eddie13]

How many actual transactions take place each day with Bitcoins?

Bout a quarter of a million these days..

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all

Lot of charts of BTC data..
https://blockchain.info/charts


BTC is kindof the new gold but isn't going to replace gold..
Gold will be fine, BTC isn't going to suck the market out of gold..
BTC sucks it's market out of fiat currencies..

Your gold is safe..
Your paper.. Eh, maybe not so much.. But that's nothing new right?

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Bout a quarter of a million these days

But how many are actual transactions and not just people buying and selling Bitcoin? The reason for all the spikes and crashes (and the volume) are due to people dumping the stock and then buying it back ad infinitum. I guarantee that Bitcoin speculators account for the vast majority of those 1/4 million transactions every day...

 

[eddie13]

But how many are actual transactions and not just people buying and selling Bitcoin? The reason for all the spikes and crashes (and the volume) are due to people dumping the stock and then buying it back ad infinitum. I guarantee that Bitcoin speculators account for the vast majority of those 1/4 million transactions every day...

That is transaction on the blockchain only..
Transactions buying and selling on exchanges are not on the blockchain, they are in the exchanges ledger only..

Including those would probably approach the billions..
Some of the best trading algorithms in the world run on bitcoin, trading bots, and they make stupid amounts of trades.. Gazillions..

What that chart shows are transactions on the blockchain, sending BTC from one address to another, from exchange to exchange, etc..
But within any 3rd party company, like an exchange or casino, they run internal ledgers only..

As you can see here.. https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts

Bitcoin does 5-20 billion $ usd trade volume per day these days..

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Looks like it dropped by a third or so according to the graph since the new year. Is that just less people purchasing or ordering goods?
The drop in amount of transactions seems directly related to the price drop in timeline.
Why did the value drop at the same time the number of transactions dropped?

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Another reason why I would never invest in Bitcoin. Insider trading and pumping up the price of Bitcoin and other cryptos:

https://www.investopedia.com/news/coinbase-hit-2-class-action-lawsuits-accused-insider-bitcoin-cash-trading/

 

[Dave Rishar]

I don't see how it would be impossible when they control everything. They can shut down the web, make it illegal, anything they want.

Shut down the web? Are you serious? Okay, how could they practically control this?

Can they make it illegal? Sure. They made drugs illegal too. Hell, the federal government considers marijuana to be illegal, yet there's a store several blocks away selling it. The police do nothing about it. And I'm talking about a business, with a physical location, a business license, employees, product, etc. You're talking about banning an asset that doesn't physically exist, can be transmitted electronically or face to face, and is not centrally controlled.

The effectiveness of a ban seems questionable to me.

A guy sells his $35k car for that much in Bitcoin. By the time he can cash them out less than an hour later, he's lost a grand on the deal because Bitcoin dropped during the interim.

No, he didn't. You know better than this, Tim.

Bottom line, it will never be a viable currency with volatile price fluctuations like that.

These price fluctuations are hindering it, but they're not preventing it.

You do know that Microsoft accepts Bitcoin, right?

No one said it will go away, but it will be regulated (and taxed to death). But it will go away quickly if it's viewed as a scam by the powers that be. And if it's main purpose is to hide drug deals or launder money, then it's already on borrowed time...

You just said that no one said that it will go away, and then in the very next sentence you explained how it might go away. In the sentence after that, you gave another reason why it might go away.

I refer you to what I said earlier: it doesn't matter whether it's viewed as a scam or it's being used to launder money and pay for illicit goods. They can't make it go away. (I know that I've said earlier that completely taking down the internet would do the job, but I'm not certain about that anymore. That would certainly make it a PITA though.) So, short of making the internet go away, you can't make crypto go away. I don't believe it's possible. If it is, tell us how, but be specific. I'm genuinely curious. I'm also curious about how much regulation is even possible.

 

[eddie13]

You make sound points dave..

In my experience the people that think bitcoin is only a scam, or for drugs and money laundering, are just people that don't know much of anything about bitcoin..

They badmouth it a lot because they think they have missed the train and want to justify their decision not to own any..

Right now does the chart look good? No..
It does if you've had some for any amount of time though..

Is it too late? I think not..


I don't put effort into countering them..
The next thing you know you've spent hours explaining what they precieve to be magic and snakeoil, they assume your just a lair/shill and stick with their negative opinion they have impressed upon them by propaganda sources seeking to protect the status quo..

 

[eddie13]

Looks like it dropped by a third or so according to the graph since the new year. Is that just less people purchasing or ordering goods?

It got a bit too carried away on its upper trajectory and had to correct..

The drop in amount of transactions seems directly related to the price drop in timeline.

Why did the value drop at the same time the number of transactions dropped?

Good eye!
Yes, because it's value is directly tied to its userbase, network effect..
The more people that use it the more it's worth..
You think it would be worth more when everyone you know uses it right?
What actually happened is it ran out of room for new users, it's not big enough for everyone yet.. Kinda bounced its head off the ceiling..

The lightning network might fix that, so keep your eye out for that to raise the roof once again..

 

[FreeBirdTim]

No, he didn't. You know better than this, Tim.

Calling me a liar? Classic sign of a scam, call anyone who's against it a liar, stupid or not very knowledgeable. You two are trying too hard now. How about replying to my other post?

https://www.investopedia.com/news/coinbase-hit-2-class-action-lawsuits-accused-insider-bitcoin-cash-trading/

 

[1320]

Calling me a liar? Classic sign of a scam, call anyone who's against it a liar, stupid or not very knowledgeable. You two are trying too hard now. How about replying to my other post?

https://www.investopedia.com/news/coinbase-hit-2-class-action-lawsuits-accused-insider-bitcoin-cash-trading/

I have no doubt that Coinbase engaged in insider trading, same happens in the stock market. It will be interesting to see how Coinbase announces it's future offerings (if any). Some people were "forced" to buy in at a hyper inflated price and have or will lose a lot of money. Not saying I'm smart, but I was smart enough to stay away from that one. It's just the way inexperienced investors with a lot of money conduct themselves...fear of missing out. I feel no pity for those that dove in head first on that coin, that was just plain stupid. Now, they don't want to accept responsibility for their stupidity. Probably a lot of life savings and/or homes were lost during that debacle.

There are rumors spreading like wildfire today about Coinbase adding a new coin, the price of that coin is climbing rapidly...all because of a rumor. This same rumor was spread on this same coin a few months ago which sent the price sky high. Lots of suckers bought in and subsequently lost a lot of money. Coinbase has not even mentioned this coin as one they will add, matter of fact, the coin kinda goes against Coinbases' philosophy. So thankfully, no one can bash Coinbase on this one. Those buying in right now have a fear of missing out as well.

When I decided to jump in, I put my little toe in the water first because I have a fear of losing money....lol.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Calling me a liar?

No. I've seen you post things in the past that speak highly of your intelligence and understanding of finances, and I'm attempting to reconcile this with the post that I was replying to because it's incorrect, and you're intelligent and learned enough to know that it's incorrect.

If I were to call you a liar (or anything else), I would simply call you that. There would be no confusion about what I was calling you. In this case, I called you smart enough to know better. If you have a problem with me calling you smart, I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Classic sign of a scam, call anyone who's against it a liar, stupid or not very knowledgeable.

See above. I don't believe that this is the first time that I've complimented you on your understanding of the situation, either.

You two are trying too hard now.

Trying too hard to do what?

How about replying to my other post?

Which one did I miss? (To be fair, you did not respond to any of my questions either.)

https://www.investopedia.com/news/c...awsuits-accused-insider-bitcoin-cash-trading/

I've said at least once in this thread, and possibly several times, that the crypto speculation market is crooked as hell. If you'd like me to say it again, I will - the crypto speculation market is crooked as hell. It is not the only market that is crooked as hell. "Legitimate" markets are also crooked as hell.

Is that the end of crypto as currency? To go back to my earlier comment about Microsoft, they did briefly stop accepting BTC due to "volatility," which is a nice way of saying that the pump and dumps were swinging the market enough to worry them. They've since begun accepting it again. So really, the discussion is not about whether or not crypto in general, or BTC in particular, can function as a currency. It already does. The question is whether or not it can continue to function as a currency. My point is that since we can't realistically undo it, something will probably emerge from this after all the craziness is done.

Also, as 1320 said, exchanges are not the same as what's being traded on markets. It's a significant point that you already know, but it's worth pointing out.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

You guys still holding those coins? The sell off and dump was months ago. Who missed the boat?
Blockchain will stick around and can be useful but it's free and open source anyway same as email.
With every Ponzi everyone thinks they will be the next billionaire hehe. The big boys sold out MONTHS ago and are on to the next thing while others are left holding the bag and waiting for prices to rise again. Won't happen.
The boat is stranded at sea.

 

[1320]

You guys still holding those coins? The sell off and dump was months ago. Who missed the boat?
Blockchain will stick around and can be useful but it's free and open source anyway same as email.
With every Ponzi everyone thinks they will be the next billionaire hehe. The big boys sold out MONTHS ago and are on to the next thing while others are left holding the bag and waiting for prices to rise again. Won't happen.
The boat is stranded at sea.

You may be correct if you're referring to the sell out of the big coins of the crypto world. The money to be made is in the up and coming coins. Buy in early and cheap, make money, take profit, pass bag to someone else.