'Big pieces' of Kilimanjaro 'missing' due to climate crisis, says climber Will Gadd

[BillA]

If you were told that it was inevitable that a boulder was going to drop on your head unless you did something, what would you do? Noting and get smashed or move out of the way?

a different question, you are talking about removing the boulder

 

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[creskol]

a different question, you are talking about removing the boulder

I said nothing about removing the boulder.

 

[xr7ator]

Let's face it folks, people fart. More people=more farts. Less people=less farts.

 

[Wint]

The way I look at it, we as a species have absolutely no power to stop the melting of the glaciers and polar ice caps. This is part of earths cycle, I am no scientist, can barley spell the word, but I think we are seeing the pre-stages of the next ice age.

Will this be bad for the human species? Absolutely. Will millions upon millions die? Pretty much a guarantee.

The fact of the matter is, this is happening, it will continue to happen, and there is very little we can do about it.

But if there is one thing we as a species are pretty darn good at, it's adapting. I've got faith we will pull through, and if we don't? We all have to die eventually

 

[Kantuckkeean]

The way I look at it, we as a species have absolutely no power to stop the melting of the glaciers and polar ice caps. This is part of earths cycle, I am no scientist, can barley spell the word, but I think we are seeing the pre-stages of the next ice age.

That's quite the defeatist attitude. I am a scientist* and actually, we do have the power to slow the melting of the glaciers and polar ice caps if we put enough effort into it and act immediately. It would occur through a few techniques, possibly even those listed in the article below (the one with the least negative effects would seem to be the glass beads). I've mentioned another geoengineering technique in a couple of threads here on TNet that is feasible and could also help to reflect solar radiation but would do nothing for atmospheric GHG concentrations. Neither my preferred technique, nor the ones listed in this article would allow us to continue increasing the concentration of GHGs in the atmosphere without serious detrimental effects on many ecosystems. We've put too much up already, raising the atmospheric CO2 concentration from ~280 ppm to around 420 ppm in a little over 100 years. The heating of both the oceans and atmosphere will continue, so if we wish to avoid the most dire consequences of climate change, we'll need to not only reduce our emissions, but take active measures to sequester carbon to reduce atmospheric GHG concentrations.

As the article mentions, these are last-ditch efforts and there may not be enough time at this point as some of the positive feedback loops have begun. You are correct that the earth cycles, but the cycle is usually a gradual process that allows species the time to adapt and evolve through natural selection. The current rate of change is not allowing many species to adapt so what's left is extinction.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/20/last-ditch-ideas-to-save-the-arctic-ice

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

*Author's note: I'm primarily an applied scientist these days and I am not a climatologist. However, as climate change touches upon my vocation and vice versa, I do keep tabs on what's happening in that arena.

 

[BillA]

Kantuk, have no genuine argument against your interests - not inclined to spread glass beads however
but your audience has already heard your message, and how did they respond?
repetitive messages do not reach those doing the polluting or influence those who might control
so how to influence?
carbon credits
Environmental activists will be forever shunned for their own get-rich-quick scheme.

work on the source problem - you know it - population
THEN try education
the other way around won't solve the issue

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

USA produces 15% of world's Co2 output, which means 85% is produced by other countries, China produces twice what America produces, China produces about 30% of world's Co2..

 

[Escape]

USA produces 15% of world's Co2 output, which means 85% is produced by other countries, China produces twice what America produces, China produces about 30% of world's Co2..

Can't argue with numbers. The question is are we going to let China out produce us? I say NO. We need to increases our Co2 production. We should not take a backseat to China. We have already fallen to far behind. We should start by eliminating all fuel emission standards.. There has been some progress in this direction over the past few years, but we are nowhere near where we need to be. The coal industry continues in its downward spiral. Something NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I crack myself up.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

Kantuk, have no genuine argument against your interests - not inclined to spread glass beads however
but your audience has already heard your message, and how did they respond?
repetitive messages do not reach those doing the polluting or influence those who might control
so how to influence?
carbon credits
Environmental activists will be forever shunned for their own get-rich-quick scheme.

work on the source problem - you know it - population
THEN try education
the other way around won't solve the issue

Hi Bill,

Some of the audience probably read my posts before the "Global Warming" forum was deleted or moved, but some here in the "General Discussion" forum may not have. As for how it went... I'm not really sure. I think that some who came into the discussion with an open mind may have learned something, which is always good. I did. I'm not sure where the "Global Warming" forum went, but I think that it disappeared because some folks kept dragging religion and politics into a discussion about science and evidence. In those threads, I was trying to convince folks that scientists aren't liars and frauds who have a hidden agenda, and I was trying to show evidence and facts because there are still way too many deniers out there (as well as people posting misinformation, lies, and people who do have a hidden agenda… perhaps even here on TNet).

For my part, I've never argued that human population growth isn't the root cause. However, I have argued human population control is an extremely sensitive topic that should be debated elsewhere.

You say, "Environmental activists will be forever shunned for their own get-rich-quick scheme." Climate change isn't a scheme. It is a constant. The rate of change driven by human activities is creating problems that will only worsen with time. Very, very, very few climate activists will get rich through their efforts to raise awareness about the causes and potential mitigation strategies. Personally, I believe that the opposite is true… I don't believe that environmental activists will be forever shunned, or even generally shunned. I think that in certain regions you may be correct. In the western US, in some areas of South American rainforests, in some places on the oceans, and in places across the globe where extractive enterprises directly conflict with environmental protection, then yes, environmental activists will be shunned by local communities whose livelihoods depend upon resource extraction (remember the battles over spotted owls?). But as societies recognize the extent of the problem, I believe that their people (including politicians) will turn to the scientists and environmental activists to help develop plans to lessen negative impacts on their ecosystems (because really, who wants to live in hot, polluted dump?).

How to influence, you ask? I guess that I can answer that in a non-partisan though political manner... lobby on behalf of the things that you believe in... vote... use the power of the purse... support businesses that have corporate sustainability and responsibility built into their missions... lead by example... do the research and look into the facts and speak up. If someone is going to speak on the issues, then they should have a good understanding of the issues. People shouldn't just buy into a conspiracy theory that thousands of scientists from various countries from all over the world are trying to perpetrate a fraud. People shouldn't attack scientists who have devoted their lives to developing a greater understanding of the natural world, because scientists by and large are trying to help make improvements to society. Scientists have saved untold millions of lives through medical technologies and they've given us the tools to make our lives more enjoyable, whether that be refrigerators, automobiles, airplanes, computers, cell phones, etc.

Please don't disregard education. Education can influence people as well. If people are educated, they will know that they do have the power to make a difference. Perhaps they turn off their lights and unused appliances at night and when not in use... perhaps they start to eliminate unnecessary trips or combine trips to reduce their carbon footprint... perhaps they pick up some trash while walking across a parking lot... or maybe they start using native plants in their landscaping... or recycling responsibly, or changing their diet in positive ways, or countless other ways to have less of a negative impact on the environment. And people should realize that they shouldn't let the ideal be the enemy of the good... just because an effort may not result in perfection doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. One can still put forth the effort and make wonderful improvements, which is certainly better than doing nothing. I'll be teaching a class tomorrow.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Johnnybravo300]

There are many things people can do but will they? I wouldnt count on it.
I do asphalt work and every parking lot and road we work on is now littered with masks and rubber gloves haha.

 

[BillA]

Kantuck
would never argue against education, it is the only way out for women (and even so... j/k)
an obvious problem are educated people with nothing productive to do, revolution - coming to a city near you
Jb3 is talking about the country, examples worldwide

population will have to be addressed eventually

 

[PetesPockets55]

Pretty simple analogy: if I'm in a leaky lifeboat with others, should I stop bailing if someone else stops or weighs more than I do and I think they are making the boat sink faster?

 

[BillA]

Pretty simple analogy: if I'm are in a leaky lifeboat with others, should I stop bailing if someone else stops or weighs more than I do and I think they are making the boat sink faster?

only to a point, what is your carrying capacity?
I think a book was written about such

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Perhaps we should try convincing the people of Courmayeur, Italy that the melting glaciers aren’t a big deal. They’ve had to evacuate their homes and businesses when a 500,000 cubic meter chunk of the Planpincieux glacier was threatening to break off and come crashing through town. We won’t have a chance to convince the couple who were killed by a debris slide there in 2018. Or maybe we should try to convince the 800 hundred million or so people who rely on the reliable, seasonal runoff from Himalayan glaciers that it’s not a big deal. They depend upon that reliable flow for drinking water, hydroelectric power, and irrigation of agricultural fields. When the spigots start dwindling and turning off in the coming decades, they’re going to know that it’s a pretty big deal. Or perhaps we should try convincing the 120,000 people of Kirbati that it’s not a big deal that their atolls are disappearing because of sea level rise. Or maybe we should try convincing the people of coastal communities who are being relocated right now that accelerating glacial loss and sea level rise aren’t big deals. Or perhaps not. Perhaps we should listen to the >99% of scientists and climatologists and take meaningful actions to slow the negative impacts that are being caused by climate change right now.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

Kantuck, our country IS taking action. Have you looked at the tailpipe emissions of modern cars? It’s near zero.
Notice solar panels appearing everywhere?
We never see black smoke billowing out of the exhaust of semi trucks any more.
Remember the noisy dirty diesel Mercedes cars? The modern diesel car also has near zero emissions.

Electric vehicles have become viable and consumer demand is driving battery development.

Even our small tools have emission reduction related technology incorporated into them.
Many of our chemical products right down to house paint are now low VOC.

We don’t have acid rain problems any more.

As better products are being developed, people are voluntary buying them.

Robotic drones are being used to optimize planting, fertilizer and watering applications in farming not only to increase production, but to reduce pollution and conserve water.

America is doing its part at an incredible rate really. This is an incredible time really.

 

[BillA]

man, knocking my (multiple) 300SDs

 

[Madmox]

Kantuck, our country IS taking action. Have you looked at the tailpipe emissions of modern cars? It’s near zero.
Notice solar panels appearing everywhere?
We never see black smoke billowing out of the exhaust of semi trucks any more.
Remember the noisy dirty diesel Mercedes cars? The modern diesel car also has near zero emissions.

Electric vehicles have become viable and consumer demand is driving battery development.

Even our small tools have emission reduction related technology incorporated into them.
Many of our chemical products right down to house paint are now low VOC.

We don’t have acid rain problems any more.

As better products are being developed, people are voluntary buying them.

Robotic drones are being used to optimize planting, fertilizer and watering applications in farming not only to increase production, but to reduce pollution and conserve water.

America is doing its part at an incredible rate really. This is an incredible time really.

Not that I disagree with what is being said here but solar panels and all the EV batteries are creating and whole different set of issues that no one seems to want to talk about. Solar panels have a very finite life. What no one seems to mention is what do we do with the old solar panels? And the answer is dump them in third world country dumps. We can’t recycle them. They are chock full of heavy metals and other nasty things. They are a bad scene. In reference to EV car batteries. No one is talking about the catastrophic increase in the amount of lithium we are going to have to start mining in order to feed this beast. Again, I agree with everything said above these are just two of the issues no one seems to mention. Realistically, we need to be dumping money into nuclear and going whole hog developing technology like the ITER in France.

 

[BillA]

Not that I disagree with what is being said here but solar panels and all the EV batteries are creating and whole different set of issues that no one seems to want to talk about. Solar panels have a very finite life. What no one seems to mention is what do we do with the old solar panels? And the answer is dump them in third world country dumps. We can’t recycle them. They are chock full of heavy metals and other nasty things. They are a bad scene. In reference to EV car batteries. No one is talking about the catastrophic increase in the amount of lithium we are going to have to start mining in order to feed this beast. Again, I agree with everything said above these are just two of the issues no one seems to mention. Realistically, we need to be dumping money into nuclear and going whole hog developing technology like the ITER in France.

and the wind turbine blades, etc

fancy hi-tech products not cost-effective anywhere
what is the life cycle energy cost of A, B, and so forth
and the cost of sequestration of unusable materials?

perhaps if we pile up the trash we can drive to the moon

 

[Madmox]

and the wind turbine blades, etc

fancy hi-tech products not cost-effective anywhere
what is the life cycle energy cost of A, B, and so forth
and the cost of sequestration of unusable materials?

perhaps if we pile up the trash we can drive to the moon

Also true. Which is why nuclear is the only real current answer, despite the fact it is persona non grata in the US. It’s safe, clean, and efficient.

 

[BillA]

Also true. Which is why nuclear is the only real current answer, despite the fact it is persona non grata in the US. It’s safe, clean, and efficient.

perhaps not quite here, but we can hope progress continues/restarts for the US

 

[stoneshirt]

And now every Dirt Patch is now covered with Asphalt

stoneshirt.