Question about filing a placer claim in Idaho on BLM land

[Storm180]

I am new to the gold prospecting thing. My friend and I kind of got the gold bug last year while on a rafting trip and seeing and talking to some dredgers on the side of the river. So this year we pooled some extra money together for some equipment and see what we come up with. We actually already pulled some flakes and a few small nuggets from a dried up river bed that is on my property that is fed by Boise River in the spring.. Just to make sure we had the gold tested by a jeweler friend of mine and its real gold.

I am looking to get a placer claim on BLM land in Idaho and I have been on their website to read the instruction on how to do it but my big question is can I prospect the area first to make sure there is gold in the area first before I file the claim? I have my gold maps current active claims and abandoned claims and I have checked the initial area verified using BLM's system and there is no current claim on the 20 acre area that I am looking at. I have tried emailing BLM here in Idaho but I have not gotten any response and no one has returned my phone call. My other concern would be accidently jumping someone claim or testing an area for gold on BLM land that someone else has a claim on and not knowing it. I know they are supposed to put up markers but 20 acres of land you might never see the markers. I have the 2012 - 2013 claim maps loaded into the gps so I don't cross any boundary line but if its an updated claim it might not be on my maps. Does anyone else do anything differently?


I know there are several rivers and areas that are open for public recreational mining and recreation dredging at certain times of the year in Idaho but I was looking for my own private area to mine this summer. One other question is the recreational permits that are needed for mining the open areas is the same permit needed if you have a claim?

 

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[Doitlaynstyle]

I too am new and from Idaho, Boise actually. My plan is to hit the well known areas and get to know the locals and the regular miners while learning a thing or two. I even have a line on some private property to test pan and maybe highbank sometime. Filing a claim may not be the ticket cuz there are a ton of places to go on just a IDWR letter permit. This allows you to dredge, sluice, and highbank in the open places for just $10 a year. The only restrictions are nothing over 15HP or a 5inch nozzle. You do need to provide a copy of a map showing the locations, the townships, and the duration of stay. (always put "season" so your covered) Hit me up (PM me) if you are near Boise. Maybe we could go out together sometime.

Gold sluicebox progression - YouTube

The red thing above is a hyperlink to my sluicebox/highbanker build.

 

[B H Prospector]

Hi Stoem 180 and welcome to the forum.
If you are fairly sure the area you are looking at is not claimed then yes you can sample it before you claim it. You can work it all you want without a claim but run the risk of loosing it to someone who does claim it. You and your partner can each claim 20 acres howeve r when it is time to file maint fees if you go that rout it is $140 per 20 acres or $280. If the BLM office is near you I would go there to check your area. You will need the meridian, township, range, section number, and quarter section and sub quarter section. ex: sw qtr of ne qtr section 32 of XXXmeridian, tsp 4s range 7e just to pull some numbers. Then the blm will be able to give you all the info on it. open or closed claimed or not. Hope this helps,

Good Luck!

B H Prospector

 

[omnicron]

You need a dredge permit to dredge, some areas are open while others are closed.
Boise River below Star Highway Bridge Year Round
Mid.F. Boise River from Arrowrock Res. upstream to SNRA boundary below Leggitt Cr. July 1 - Sept 30
Oct 1 - June 30
Mid.F. Boise River from the mouth of Roaring River to the confluence with the N.F. of Boise River
Closed Entire Yea
Mores Cr. and tribs upstream from Boulder Cr.
Closed Entire Year
Now here is the crappy part.. They only issue so many permits for these parts and I understand that the waiting list is miles long.

If you want to give me the area you looking at I can tell you if it's open to dredging, I assume your going to be dredging.

Here's something else..
Not all Federal lands are open for mining claims. There are Federally administered lands in 19 States
where you may file a mineral claim or site: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho,
Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah,
Washington, and Wyoming. In these States, the BLM manages the surface BLM lands and the Forest Service
manages the surface National Forest System lands. Excepting mineral materials, the BLM is responsible for
the minerals on both BLM and National Forest System lands.
You may prospect and locate claims and sites on lands open to mineral entry. Claims may not be
staked in areas closed to mineral entry by a special act of Congress, regulation, or public land order. These
areas are withdrawn from the operation of the mining laws

 

[Storm180]

I too am new and from Idaho, Boise actually. My plan is to hit the well known areas and get to know the locals and the regular miners while learning a thing or two. I even have a line on some private property to test pan and maybe highbank sometime. Filing a claim may not be the ticket cuz there are a ton of places to go on just a IDWR letter permit. This allows you to dredge, sluice, and highbank in the open places for just $10 a year. The only restrictions are nothing over 15HP or a 5inch nozzle. You do need to provide a copy of a map showing the locations, the townships, and the duration of stay. (always put "season" so your covered) Hit me up (PM me) if you are near Boise. Maybe we could go out together sometime.

Gold sluicebox progression - YouTube

The red thing above is a hyperlink to my sluicebox/highbanker build.

Yeh I know there are a ton of places to mine just with the IDWR letter permit but I am thinking there might be better places more out of the way that might have area that haven't been mined a lot to better my chances. I mean there has to be a reason why people have filed claims in those area and too keep paying the $140 a year for them they must be finding something.

 

[Storm180]

You need a dredge permit to dredge, some areas are open while others are closed.
Boise River below Star Highway Bridge Year Round
Mid.F. Boise River from Arrowrock Res. upstream to SNRA boundary below Leggitt Cr. July 1 - Sept 30
Oct 1 - June 30
Mid.F. Boise River from the mouth of Roaring River to the confluence with the N.F. of Boise River
Closed Entire Yea
Mores Cr. and tribs upstream from Boulder Cr.
Closed Entire Year
Now here is the crappy part.. They only issue so many permits for these parts and I understand that the waiting list is miles long.

If you want to give me the area you looking at I can tell you if it's open to dredging, I assume your going to be dredging.

So in closed area you need a special dredging permit while in open area all your need is the letter permit? Also in the open area do you need a stream alteration permit? or is it only needed on the closed areas. We weren't planning on doing any dredging till the summer time while we are looking at doing some sluicing upcoming in a few weeks or so. So the IDWR letter permit is all you need to sluice in a open area and you don't need a stream alteration permit. So if I did file my own claim in an area that wasn't a open area I would have to get a stream alteration permit? Sorry for all the questions I have read all that information online and it reads like a law journal.

 

[Goodyguy]

Did I understand you to say that you found small gold nuggets as well as gold flakes on your own property?

Wow dude that's awesome! You are already sitting on a gold mine.
That is to say, a golden opportunity for you to hone your prospecting and gold recovering skills without even leaving home!

Of course I have no idea how much land you have or other circumstances that make you want to get a claim elsewhere, but seems to me It sure would be an ideal situation to have gold bearing property that you own. I would guess that there is plenty more gold where that came from and I would be setting up to run some yardage if it were my property. Even if it took a special permit.


GG~

 

[Storm180]

Did I understand you to say that you found small gold nuggets as well as gold flakes on your own property?

Yeh I own some property that backs ups to a high side of a dirt irrigation canal that runs through the back of my property and I have a small dried up river bed that is fed from the canal on the property. So when they open up the gates to fill the canals here in Idaho that area gets fed with everything that washes down. I am getting mostly small flakes and I have gotten two tiny nuggets from the area. Just about every other pan or so I run I am getting a few flakes, nothing that will make me rich but flakes none the less. I am getting quite a bit of black sand in the area also and is the initial reason for me mining my backyard. The only reason I was looking for other area to mine is because I don't think I am going to get anything much bigger than flakes here but I plan on keeping on it.

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

So in closed area you need a special dredging permit while in open area all your need is the letter permit? Also in the open area do you need a stream alteration permit? or is it only needed on the closed areas. We weren't planning on doing any dredging till the summer time while we are looking at doing some sluicing upcoming in a few weeks or so. So the IDWR letter permit is all you need to sluice in a open area and you don't need a stream alteration permit. So if I did file my own claim in an area that wasn't a open area I would have to get a stream alteration permit? Sorry for all the questions I have read all that information online and it reads like a law journal.

Ya there are limits on the IDWR letter permit. If you put in a claim you have to have the Idwr permit to use the water in the stream and if it is closed you have to put in a whole different type of permit. plus you have to file the claim with the BLM. Its a pain but learn to use the LR2000 site. you can run reports on the claims in the area you are going to check out. Go to the Idwr site. It takes a bunch of reading but the specifics are there. Here is a thread on how to use the lr2000 http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/337959-navigating-lr2000-page-instructions.html

 

[omnicron]

Storm, you must be letting the GF cloud your vision, All there is in IDAHO is fine gold with a occasional flake or very small picker here or there. You need to realize that in Idaho City and the surrounding area in the 1800s and early 1900 BIG bucket line dredges came through and cleaned ALL the gold bearing creaks and rivers out. What is left is what they missed and flood gold. If you found gold coming off the New York Canal then you must have found a freak of nature. The gold stops at Lucky Peak otherwise you would have everybody down on the Green Belt running sluices! Honesty, if your getting a few flakes per pan on your property I would stay there and mine. When I started out last year, I was just sluicing and I would dig, classify, carry and run maybe 50 or so buckets for maybe 20 dollars in gold and this is a good rich area. That's why I went to dredging....screw the digging let the younger kids do that. I prefer to use my brain and not my brawn!

When I referred to a area being closed, it's just that CLOSED! No permit, NO digging, dredging, panning or power sluice. CLOSED! A power sluice (frequently referred to as a “high-banker”) is covered by the recreational dredging program only when it is set up and used within the stream channel.

Under Idaho Code §42-201, diversion of water by pumping or other methods from a stream requires a water right from the State of Idaho, IDWR

If a stream is not listed as open it is closed. If a stream is not listed it is closed.

Pursuant to the authorities specified in Section 58-104(a) and 47-702, Idaho Code, the State Board of Land Commissioners has withdrawn from mineral entry and exploration the following segments of navigable rivers with recreational dredge or placer mining prohibited:
Boise River
The Bed of the South Fork of the Boise River from Anderson Ranch Dam in T 01S, R 08E, downstream to Neal Bridge in Section 34, T 03N, R 06E.
The Bed of the Middle Fork of the Boise River from the east boundary of T 05N, R 08E, downstream to the west boundary of Section 1, T 03N, R 05E.
The Bed of the Boise River from Lucky Peak Dam in T 02N, R 03E, down River to Star Highway in T 04N, R 01W
Payette River
The Bed of the North Fork of the Payette River, from Cabarton Bridge to Banks, between the ordinary high water marks, situated in Section 31, T13N, R 04E, to Section 32, T 09N, R 03E.
The Bed of the South Fork of the Payette River from the Sawtooth Wilderness Boundary to Banks, between the ordinary high water marks, situated in Section 12, T 09N, R09E to Section 32, T 09N, R 03E.
The Bed of the Main Payette River, from Banks to Black Canyon Dam, between the ordinary high water marks, situated in Section 32, T 09N, R 03E, to Section 22, T 07N, R 01W.

Pursuant to the authorities specified in Section 42-1734A, Idaho code and adopted by the Idaho Water Resource Board, the following waterways and/or stream segments are protected as either a State Natural River or as a State Recreational River with recreational dredge or placer mining prohibited
Boise River Drainage
South Fork Boise River, Anderson Ranch Dam to a point 250 yards upstream of Neal Bridge.
Lime Creek and all tributaries, headwaters to mouth.
Big Smoky Creek and all tributaries, headwaters to mouth.
Boise River, from confluence of its North and Middle Forks to backwaters of
Arrowrock Reservoir.
Sheep Creek, headwaters to mouth.
South Fork Sheep Creek, headwaters to mouth.
Devils Creek, headwaters to mouth.
East Fork Sheep Creek, headwaters to mouth.
Middle Fork Boise River, mouth of Roaring River to confluence with the North Fork Boise River.

 

[JSpinner]

Oh yeah.....there's gold here. You just got to know where and how to spot the key signs of evidence. If you like gems, we've got those, too. Over 72 gemstone varieties in the state. That's why we're called the 'Gem' state. With a bit of knowledge in geology/gemology you'll have a couple leaps ahead most others in the hunt. Good luck to you all. Prosper in 2013! - JSpinner

 

[DesertNuggets]

Great info omnicron!

 

[Storm180]

If you found gold coming off the New York Canal then you must have found a freak of nature. The gold stops at Lucky Peak otherwise you would have everybody down on the Green Belt running sluices!

Omicron, thanks for the info. Its not the NY Canal its the settlers canal system that feeds the area in my yard.

 

[omnicron]

Welcome storm. Keep in mind that there is a good chance that the reason there is no claim on were your wanting to prospect is that the area may be closed. If you want to keep your area private I understand...

 

[TerryC]

Storm, using my post Navigating the LR2000.... instructions, plug in the following criteria. I got them for the Custer, ID area. Meridian... 08 Boise... township 12 North,... Range 19 East, and... Section 4. You will get two pages of closed claims for the area. Plug in different MTRs and sections for the area you want to research. The ones I plugged in for you are only to show it could be done for ID using your computor. To get the MTRS values for your area, Open your browser. Go to GOOGLE. Put PLSS in Google in the search box. You will get a webpage that has Earth Survey up at the top of the page. Click on PLSGE which is located near the top of the lined box up on top of the page. PLSGE is underlined. You will now have a version of GE that has an overlay of the TRS for the area. Click on the bullet in the left side info that says TOWNSHIP. Zoom into ID until this info shows up. Also, after recording this info for use, click on the bullet for MERIDIAN. this will direct you to the meridian you need for your research area. The process here is actually easier than my telling the instructions. These are good tools to use for your researches. If you are unable to figure out these instructions, give me a PM and we can set up a phone call to help you through it. Anyone can PM me or TimC for this stuff. We are glad to help fellow Tnetters. TTC

 

[TerryC]

(Welcome to Tnet, Storm. The BEST on the net!) TC

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

If this area is on private ground then its just Kinda dont ask dont tell. If you can be seen from the road put up some tarps. Private ground is private ground. Put in a letter permit anyway so you can report where you got your gold from if you sell it.

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

You need a dredge permit to dredge, some areas are open while others are closed.
Boise River below Star Highway Bridge Year Round
Mid.F. Boise River from Arrowrock Res. upstream to SNRA boundary below Leggitt Cr. July 1 - Sept 30
Oct 1 - June 30
Mid.F. Boise River from the mouth of Roaring River to the confluence with the N.F. of Boise River
Closed Entire Yea
Mores Cr. and tribs upstream from Boulder Cr.
Closed Entire Year
Now here is the crappy part.. They only issue so many permits for these parts and I understand that the waiting list is miles long.

If you want to give me the area you looking at I can tell you if it's open to dredging, I assume your going to be dredging.

Here's something else..
Not all Federal lands are open for mining claims. There are Federally administered lands in 19 States
where you may file a mineral claim or site: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho,
Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah,
Washington, and Wyoming. In these States, the BLM manages the surface BLM lands and the Forest Service
manages the surface National Forest System lands. Excepting mineral materials, the BLM is responsible for
the minerals on both BLM and National Forest System lands.
You may prospect and locate claims and sites on lands open to mineral entry. Claims may not be
staked in areas closed to mineral entry by a special act of Congress, regulation, or public land order. These
areas are withdrawn from the operation of the mining laws

To quote the 2012 LETTER PERMIT

Mechanized Mining Equipment
Any equipment used to alter a stream channel that is operated by a motor, an engine, or anything other than human strength is considered mechanized mining equipment and requires a stream channel alteration permit. This includes powered sluice boxes, hydraulic concentrators (often referred to as a “highbanker”), suction dredges, or any other form of equipment used in mining to extract, collect, process, or concentrate earthen materials that uses other than human strength. Operation of any mining equipment on streambeds of navigable rivers must also comply with IDAPA 20.03.05

DWR Permit Requirement for Expedited LETTER PERMIT Idaho Code § 42
-
3801 et seq.,
Alteration of Channels of Streams and theIDAPA 37.03.07 Rule 64,
Suction Dredges and non-powered Sluice Equipment, govern stream alterations. When stream alterations are done with processes commonly associated with recreational mining operations in areas and during timeframes indicated, the potential for negative impact is reduced and the expedited LETTER PERMIT may be used. These conditions include:
1.Permit holder will only work on a stream segment listed as open.
2.Permit holder will only work with equipment that complies with the following physical limits:
a.Capable of processing no more than two (2) cubic yards per hour.
b.Motor/engine rated at no greater than 15 HP.
c.Intake diameter no greater than five (5) inches


A special dredging permit is only required when the stream isn't listed as open OR when you exceed the mechanical limits listed above. I worked very hard (15 min) to find this info and I talked to the manager of operations about it. No other agency can give you any problems with it as long as you carry a copy of the rules with you and with your letter permit. Judges don't deal with these kinds of cases very often and are used to just fining someone so you know what you will get if you don't prove it to the agent that is questioning the legality of your actions.