CA Water Board Recommends Banning Dredging Forever, written 3/11/2013

[spillercanyon]

Here is a link to the report issued Monday March 11, 2013 in which it states that the Board recommends banning dredging forever. It doesn't cover any of the good that dredging does including the benefits of removing mercury from the waterways, of coarse. The bottom of page 2 does indicate that the lack of a sluice is considered not dredging, for now as it is on their radar.

http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/cwa401/docs/suctiondredge/ecm1043735.pdf

 

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[kuger]

Unbelievable...but not really........Libland

 

[ray in ny]

Same people banning dredging are against the Second Amendment. It is the same nindset--the government knows best, their perceptions are more important than our freedoms. Dredging is digging up the environment--bad; guns kill people--bad. Keep this in mind.

 

[Oakview2]

These a-holes are so "Open Minded", their brains have fallen out. If they think a six inch dredge can stir up mercury, what the h#ll does mother nature do after a major rain event. Last I checked she doesn't remove the old timers mercury, or the naturally occuring mercury that is deposited by Cinnibar deposits. More junk science from appointed knuckleheads that can't grab their arse with either hand Color me pissed off........

 

[Oakview2]

PS... We need one the cases either in Plumas or San Bernadino to overturn these dipsticks and their ruling class mentality...

 

[Fullpan]

Had another dream - this time the County Board of Supervisors passed an entry tax on out-of-county users of trails. Hikers - $150/day. Bikes an additional
$100 due to "significant environmental impacts", plus usual parking fees. More than the enviros can play this game.

 

[Aurabbit79er]

The control freaks are at it again. When it comes right down to it we just have to overwhelm them by getting every dredge in the state all running at the same time, on the same day, and create a legal traffic jam. I know they are wrong, you know they are wrong, they think they are right, sometimes seeing is believing. We need to show them they are wrong.

We need to set up a massive dredging expedition, where we descend on rivers all over the state, at the same time and on the same day, in concentrated group's and stand our ground, and when we see another dredger being challenged we go over to assist that dredger and arm ourselves with as much legal paperwork as we can to stand and defend the dredger. We need to create physical solidarity. We can't let them get away with it.

I have never been one to promote public disobedience, but this is pissing me off. I bought a dredge and six months later I found out California had put a moratorium on dredging before I even got a chance to get it wet.

I can only guess that there must be thousands may be even 100,000 miners in the state that have motorized suction dredges. This is like buying a new car telling me all the roads are closed. This is unacceptable.
Help us Obi-Wan, you're our only hope.

 

[NuggetN8]

The control freaks are at it again. When it comes right down to it we just have to overwhelm them by getting every dredge in the state all running at the same time, on the same day, and create a legal traffic jam. I know they are wrong, you know they are wrong, they think they are right, sometimes seeing is believing. We need to show them they are wrong.

We need to set up a massive dredging expedition, where we descend on rivers all over the state, at the same time and on the same day, in concentrated group's and stand our ground, and when we see another dredger being challenged we go over to assist that dredger and arm ourselves with as much legal paperwork as we can to stand and defend the dredger. We need to create physical solidarity. We can't let them get away with it.

I have never been one to promote public disobedience, but this is pissing me off. I bought a dredge and six months later I found out California and put it a moratorium on dredging before I even got a chance to get it wet.

I can only guess that there must be thousands may be even 100,000 miners in the state that have motorized suction dredges. This is like buying a new car telling me all the roads are closed. This is unacceptable.
Help us Obi-Wan, you're our only hope.

That would be something to do. Line up a hundred dredges in the same stretch of a river. They wouldn't know how to handle it. Move from river to river all across the state. Hehehehe >

 

[Hoser John]

can ya'all feel the love right now...then high banking...then sluice boxes...then panning....adios-John

 

[homestead-hunter]

Thats why I dont live In Cali. Too many Rules. Too many people. Any place that infringes on my 2nd amendment rights is bye bye. What a Nazi State.

 

[Oakview2]

Same thing the folks in Oregon said.... Look where they are at, facing the same song and dance.

Thats why I dont live In Cali. Too many Rules. Too many people. Any place that infringes on my 2nd amendment rights is bye bye. What a Nazi State.

 

[Fullpan]

This is an excellent idea. Its been done successfully countless times in last hundred years (mass protests). All it takes is total commitment and willingness
to sacrifice everything. It was done by people who are disabled Americans (crawling up the steps to the nation's capitol and occupying the congressional
hallways). It was done by Martin Luther's followers for their civil rights. It was done by students at Kent State and Vietnam protestors who successfully
challenged the "communist domino effect" in Southeast Asia. As of now, you know the 2nd Amendment advocates are going to win, why?, because they
are totally commited and there's a whole lot of them. Yet to be determined - the overthrowing of Assad in Syria, but the rebels are willing to sacrifice everything. This is not about right or wrong beliefs, its about how far are you willing to go to achieve your goal.

Way back, Hoser John staged the protest you are describing. He defied the authorities on the trinity river in hopes that fellow miners would join him.
Turns out, he stood virtually alone, and failed. Again this is NOT about John, but about the necessity to all believers involved in total commitment, including
personal safety and financial ruin. If you are not prepared to make real sacrifice, if whining about your rights is as far as you are willing to go, do yourselves
a favor and just SHUT THE HLL UP!

 

[goldog]

That's the problem. We would need enough people to "put up" in order to overwhelm the authorities and get the attention of patriotic Americans who may join our cause.

 

[jog]

ARE YOU THERE YET ?

 

[Fullpan]

Getting closer but vast majority are still in the "why me? Why can't I just be left alone to do my thing" category It sure would be a powerful thing for calif.
to join Ore. fighters. The leadership has just about given up on miners here in Calif. - instead they are reaching out to farmers, the DRA, the libertarian party,
county supervisors, etc. to gain support for individual rights. Sad.

 

[ncclaymaker]

Why is everyone getting so upset.? I visited California recently to find that the state has been "Californicated" to the core. As an artisan, I found that most of the reputable and skilled artisans have already left for Arizona, New Mexico and elsewhere. So I ask... what is all of the moaning about? I've said in the past... relocate to a place where the "people climate" is not as hostile. A friend of mine, who was leaving for Texas, stated it quite simply... if what you are doing produces a smile or a good feeling, California will immediately place a "fee" on that activity. Ours included.

 

[NuggetN8]

Why is everyone getting so upset.? I visited California recently to find that the state has been "Californicated" to the core. As an artisan, I found that most of the reputable and skilled artisans have already left for Arizona, New Mexico and elsewhere. So I ask... what is all of the moaning about? I've said in the past... relocate to a place where the "people climate" is not as hostile. A friend of mine, who was leaving for Texas, stated it quite simply... if what you are doing produces a smile or a good feeling, California will immediately place a "fee" on that activity. Ours included.

Most people can't just relocate. Some of us are stuck here. And some people like California minus the ridiculous laws and regulations.

 

[Oakview2]

When it comes to your state, where will you run to?

Why is everyone getting so upset.? I visited California recently to find that the state has been "Californicated" to the core. As an artisan, I found that most of the reputable and skilled artisans have already left for Arizona, New Mexico and elsewhere. So I ask... what is all of the moaning about? I've said in the past... relocate to a place where the "people climate" is not as hostile. A friend of mine, who was leaving for Texas, stated it quite simply... if what you are doing produces a smile or a good feeling, California will immediately place a "fee" on that activity. Ours included.

 

[Aurabbit79er]

When it comes to your state, where will you run to?

I live in the middle of the city of Los Angeles, an hour and a half from the mountains, and two hours from the desert. I lived in and was born in Orange County. I also lived in Northern California in Roseville and Citrus Heights. Except for a couple years living in Texas, I have spent my entire life living in California. This is a great state, it's been said many times before "As goes California, so goes the Nation" This state is a trendsetter. If we let California government squeeze us out of state, someday there won't be any other states to run to. We need a precedent setting event that is in our favor. Nothing worthwhile comes without a fight. I have a history in this state, gold miners also have a history in the state. We can't lose that history, but I have seen much of that history trampled on. This state was not built by bankers politicians and lawyers. It was built by miners, farmers, and ranchers who had the muscles and guts to build a life in the New World.Those farms and ranches had environmental impacts on the state. Building cities and towns had environmental impacts on the state. Mining has had environmental impact on the state. The most damaging type of mining, hydraulic mining, was outlawed in California first. Not even present day miners would disagree how damaging hydraulic mining was. Suction dredge mining has been used for years and years. We should have enough evidence to show the beneficial effects of suction dredging against the minimal negative effects. Personally I don't see any negative affects other than exhaust gases from an internal combustion engine. We need strong scientific support and publicity to counteract all the negative press small-scale miners are getting. George Massey started the Outdoor Channel for just that reason. His sons are continuing that work. I said I would never join Facebook, but now that I have had begun to see the power that is possible, combined with YouTube our efforts could go viral. So we have the tools and we have the talent we need experts and promoters. There has to be some kind of ex post facto against changing the rules after we have already been allowed to mine on valid River claims using current mining equipment. I know we can drum up support in court public opinion. We are part of that court. We can't remain individual lone gunmen. I hate to say it, as I never really considered possible but maybe we need a small-scale miners union. Please don't shoot me I'm just the messenger. I'm hoping we can throw enough ideas out there something is going to stick to the wall, and we can all agree on it and act on it. These guys who are trying to stop us I don't think believe we have the guts to fight back in any real sense. Let's prove them wrong. I'm not an expert. I'm not politically connected. I'm sure as hell not rich. In fact I am not even employed. But I am passionate about stopping all those who don't respect our rights and freedoms. It's like they can have their rights and freedoms, but we can't have our rights and freedoms. The government is becoming a double standard contradiction.
I don't know, I keep trying to figure this out. I won't be chased out of public lands that my Grandfather, my Father, Me, and my Family have been camping on for the last 70+ years. While fishing with my grandfather back in the 40s, my mother found a gold nugget on the East Fork San Gabriel River right at the edge of the water. It was as big as her thumbnail, a very nice flake. I want my grandkids to have the same opportunity.

 

[Hefty1]

Hope it helps...maybe they will read it? I just sent the letter below to all legislators, senators, and all ca state waterboard emails I have. Everybody else should send this also...FORCE THEM TO READ IT! You guys in all other states should do the same. 03/16/2013 Selenium, Mercury and Suction Dredging -- Studies Contradict California State Water Resources Board Print There is no doubt that mercury and methyl mercury are hazardous substances when absorbed by humans through contact or when consumed within food in large quantities. Federal and state regulatory agencies often cite mercury and methyl mercury in our waterways as a major factor for further restrictions on placer mining, and on suction gold dredge mining, in particular. However, these regulatory agencies are minimizing selenium and its neutralizing effects. In the Draft Subsequent Environmental Impact Report (DSEIR) on suction dredging published by the California Department of Fish and Wildlife in 2011, the agency calls the evidence of selenium neutralization “lacking” despite numerous studies to the contrary. The DSEIR reads, “Evidence from laboratory experiments has shown that selenium may be able to moderate the toxic effects of Hg when present at a molar ratio greater than around 1:1, and that most fish in the United States contain high enough levels of selenium to make this a possibility. However, epidemiological support for this phenomenon is lacking, and the limited evidence gives mixed results.” In contrast to the claims made by the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, numerous scientific studies have shown that selenium—a common element in soils and waterways—binds with mercury and methyl mercury to neutralize it. Raymond and Ralston, in Mercury: selenium interactions and health implications, state, “Measuring the amount of mercury present in the environment or food sources may provide an inadequate reflection of the potential for health risks if the protective effects of selenium are not also considered. Selenium’s involvement is apparent throughout the mercury cycle, influencing its transport, biogeochemical exposure, bioavailability, toxicological consequences, and remediation. “Likewise, numerous studies indicate that selenium, present in many foods (including fish), protects against mercury exposure. Studies have also shown mercury exposure reduces the activity of selenium dependent enzymes. While seemingly distinct, these concepts may actually be complementary perspectives of the mercury-selenium binding interaction. Owing to the extremely high affinity between mercury and selenium, selenium sequesters mercury and reduces its biological availability.” Dr. TW Clarkson of the University of Rochester, New York, published a study on the effects of methyl mercury exposure after nearly fifty years of research. Clarkson concluded that consuming fish that contained typical mercury levels would have no adverse effects. Scientists who take a more restrictive approach will often cite “Minamata” disease along with a study conducted on Faroe Islanders that revealed high levels of mercury contamination among residents. Over 3,000 Japanese children were diagnosed with Minamata disease and suffered developmental impairment. The disease was first recognized in the 1950s and was correctly attributed to mercury poisoning from consuming contaminated fish. However, mercury had been dumped into Minamata Bay over a period of 36 years, which made it impossible for selenium neutralization to keep up. In the Faroe Islands study, the diet consisted of large portions of pilot whale meat. It was discovered that pilot whales—unlike fish commonly consumed in other areas of the world—do not retain sufficient selenium to neutralize mercury concentration. As mentioned above, California’s regulatory agencies continue to ignore the fact that selenium provides one of the keys to neutralizing mercury in our waterways. A recent letter, dated March 11, 2013, from the State Water Resources Control Board to Charlton Bonham, Director of the Department of Fish and Wildlife, states, “Based on the water quality impacts of recreational suction dredging, we recommend that the existing moratorium be continued indefinitely, or that this activity be permanently prohibited. “The resuspension and discharge of mercury is a potent neurotoxin that is harmful to both humans and wildlife. Mercury builds up in the bodies of fish that live in waters with even small amounts of mercury; and in the bodies of humans who eat contaminated fish.” Ignoring the studies on selenium and its benefits allows the agencies to continue down the path of restrictions, regulations and prohibitions. There is one more study I want to bring to your attention. A 1995 study (Salonen, et al) revealed that men in eastern Finland consumed large quantities of freshwater fish and were suffering from higher rates of coronary heart disease, so the study examined mercury and selenium intake. Soil testing revealed that selenium levels were extremely low—the lowest in all of Europe—so the citizens suffered from low levels of selenium. Finland found a simple solution—instead of banning fishing and the consumption of fish, it required that selenium be added as a supplement to fertilizers. This simple solution added selenium in waterways due to run-off and sufficiently increased selenium levels in individuals through consumption of fish and other local foods. Suction Gold Dredges Are Part of The Solution!​ Common sense dictates a two-part solution. First, introduce selenium. Selenium levels could be increased in fertilizers with minimal cost. It's already been proven to have a positive effect in Finland. Second, encourage suction gold dredging. Yes, you heard that right. There is mercury in our waterways, some of it from historic mining activities. There is no dispute on this fact. Historic miners did not foresee the problems they were creating for future generations when they used mercury for capturing gold, but today’s miners have a solution. Mercury in our waterways is going to be disturbed and transported whether or not suction gold dredgers are in the water. During a large storm, an entire riverbed can be scoured to bedrock, and all material—including mercury—is on the move. Some of that mercury will become methylated. Mercury is heavy and is attracted to gold, so much of it is captured along with the gold in the riffles of a dredge. Even if a dredge captures only 97% of the mercury it sucks up, it’s logical to allow suction gold dredgers to capture and remove it from our waterways before it gets disturbed by fast moving waters and enters the food chain. Allowing dredgers to remove mercury from our waterways will benefit the environment and give a boost to the economy in tough times. Sources(Links are provided where available)​ Salonen JT, Seppanen K, Nyyssonen K, Korpela H, Kauhanen J, Kantola M, et al.; “Intake of mercury from fish, lipid peroxidation, and the risk of myocardial infarction and coronary, cardiovascular, and any death in eastern Finnish men,” Circulation 1995 Feb 1;91(3):645–55. Laura J Raymond, PhD; Nicholas VC Ralston, PhD; “Mercury: selenium interactions and health implications,” University of North Dakota, Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA. Myers GJ, Davidson PW, Cox C, Shamlaye C, Cernichiari E, Clarkson TW; “Twenty-seven years studying the human neurotoxicity of methylmercury exposure,” Environ Res Section A 2000;83:275–85. Draft Environmental Impact Report, Chapter 4.2, Pg 53, California Department of Fish & Wildlife, 2011. Weihe P, Grandjean P, Debes F, White R.; “Health implications for Faroe islanders of heavy metals and PCBs from pilot whales,” Sci Total Environ 1996;186(1–2):141–8. Selenium and Mercury—Fishing for Answers, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Fisheries Service Pacific Islands Regional Office, U.S. Department of Energy’s National Energy Technology Laboratory, the Energy & Environmental Research Center’s Center for Air Toxic Metals® at the University of North Dakota, 2007. California State Water Resources Control Board letter dated March 11, 2013, to Charlton Bonham, Department of Fish and Wildlife.