Make sure you make your comments to OAL this week.

[Oakview2]

Starting Monday the 18th we only have 5 days to make comments before they make a decsion.
Home Page Office of Administrative Law
Right side of page, click on Emergency Regulations under review
If this passes, no motor and pump of any kind will be allowed within three hundred feet of any Ca waterway

 

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[Jeff95531]

There are so many attacks coming from so many levels...do you have an e-mail addy for this specific "emergency"?

 

[chlsbrns]

Starting Monday the 18th we only have 5 days to make comments before they make a decsion.
Home Page Office of Administrative Law
Right side of page, click on Emergency Regulations under review
If this passes, no motor and pump of any kind will be allowed within three hundred feet of any Ca waterway

I don't see anything that says no motor and/or pump within 300 feet but I do see a loophole in the amended definition of dredging. I wouldn't post it in a public forum.

http://www.oal.ca.gov/res/docs/pdf/emergencies/new emergencies/2013-0618-02E.pdf

I guess somehow they are ignoring all of the mercury that dredgers remove from the waters or maybe the idiots think mercury doesn't harm the fish?

 

[dredgeman]

I don't see anything that says no motor and/or pump within 300 feet but I do see a loophole in the amended definition of dredging. I wouldn't post it in a public forum.

http://www.oal.ca.gov/res/docs/pdf/emergencies/new emergencies/2013-0618-02E.pdf

I guess somehow they are ignoring all of the mercury that dredgers remove from the waters or maybe the idiots think mercury doesn't harm the fish?

With the new definition any suction device that pulls water from a river lake or stream. With this intentionally vague definition a foot valve will be cited as a dredge. All highbanking or pumping of water for mining purposes will be deemed dredging.

And yes there are many attacks on many levels. This is intentional. The more attacks, the more overwhelmed people are the more apathetic they get. This way a lot of their agenda moves forward without opposition.

The only loophole if this gets thru is running air to go underwater. The Agencies are working on a no motor or mechanical device definition right now. Oh they consider a sluice box and shovel to be mechanical.

 

[Oakview2]

A copy of my letter sent this am

Please note

A finding of emergency based only upon expediency, convenience, best interest, general public need, or speculation, is not adequate to demonstrate the existence of an emergency. (CEQA § 11346.1, subd. (b)(2).)

There are two Independent studies by Fish and Game that show no harm to salmon, to the contrary, they are a benefit to salmon spawning areas.

There is a independent study by Fish and Game that shows a off the shelf suction dredge will remove 97% of mercury from streams. Left unattended it makes it way into the ocean, and where it contaminates all fish including salmon who swim upstream to spawn, die, and redeposit the mercury back in the ecosystem. Your efforts to protect the citizens of this state are insuring a toxic legacy in our lakes and streams in infinity. Even our opponents the Sierra Fund are trying to secure a 9 million dollar contract from Nevada Irrigation District to dredge Lake Combine and the Bear River to remove mercury. A noble thought, but misguided as they propose to use a cutter head dredge, which scientifically would be the very LEAST efficient way to recover mercury, but the most efficient way to harvest gravel to sell as aggregate. It seems ironic, that these groups that state they need to stop all dredging, are setting themselves up in business to harvest gold and aggregate under the auspices of saving the environment. Please note, issue the permits and we who are skilled in underwater recovery, will clean up the lakes and streams for FREE!!! And we will actually recover mercury and other heavy metals.


Respectively,

 

[dredgeman]

They are not ignoring the mercury. They are getting state grants (your Money) to remove it. Dredging bad, Enviro dredge good and they can sell the proprietary system to other enviros.
We Blow the mercury up and transport. They treat and remove. In reality their equipment only blows it up smaller so that it is acceptable to their flawed data

 

[dredgeman]

If the Sierra Nevadas get shut down. The west falls next.

 

[Oakview2]

My addendum

Please note that a Emergency regulation should be based on Scientific Fact on not on Proposed Harm. Underwater miners have a long standing base of scientific fact that has been generated by Fish and Game and by Independent University Studies. This is the basis for a ruling, not wild conjecture by The Center of Bio Diversity or the Sierra Fund.




Respectively,

 

[Oakview2]

Are you the same Dredgeman from the WMA board? Perhaps from the Ranchos?

 

[chlsbrns]

Doesn't appear they are following the required procedure: http://www.oal.ca.gov/res/docs/pdf/Emergency_Rulemaking_Process_Timeline_Chart.pdf

Emergency Regulation Process - Office of Administrative Law

What constitutes an emergency?
"'Emergency' means a situation that calls for immediate action to avoid serious harm to the public peace, health, safety, or general welfare." (Government Code section 11342.545.) In order for an emergency regulation to be approved, an emergency must be shown to exist.

(It doesn't say anything about fish)

How does an agency demonstrate that an emergency situation exists?
Unless a situation is expressly deemed in statute to be an emergency, an agency must make a finding of emergency by describing specific facts supported by substantial evidence that demonstrate the existence of an emergency and the need for immediate adoption of the proposed regulation. In addition, if the emergency existed and was known by the agency in sufficient time to have been addressed through nonemergency regulations, the finding of emergency shall include facts explaining the failure to address the situation through nonemergency regulations. A finding of emergency based only upon expediency, convenience, best interest, general public need, or speculation, is not adequate to demonstrate the existence of an emergency. (Government Code section 11346.1(b)(2).)

Does the public have an opportunity to comment on a proposed emergency regulation?
Yes. The public may submit comments directly to OAL on proposed emergency regulations for five calendar days after OAL posts the notice of the pending emergency action on the OAL web site unless "the emergency situation clearly poses such an immediate, serious harm that delaying action to allow public comment would be inconsistent with the public interest." (Government Code section 11349.6(b).)

The adopting agency must send the finding of emergency and the proposed text of the emergency regulation(s) to any person who has asked to be notified of regulatory actions. These items must be sent at least five working days before the agency submits the proposed emergency regulations to OAL.

Upon submission of the proposed emergency regulation(s) to OAL by the agency, the regulation text and the finding of emergency will be posted on OAL's web site. It is important for the public to monitor the OAL web site to determine when this posting event actually occurs. The public may submit comments to OAL regarding the proposed emergency regulations for five calendar days after OAL posts the notice of the pending emergency action on the OAL web site unless "the emergency situation clearly poses such an immediate, serious harm that delaying action to allow public comment would be inconsistent with the public interest." (Government Code section 11349.6(b).)

How do I comment on proposed emergency regulations to OAL?
If you wish to comment on proposed emergency regulations, you must submit the comment directly to OAL within five calendar days of when OAL posts the proposed emergency regulations on the OAL web site. You may submit comments on proposed emergency regulations to the OAL Reference Attorney by mail to 300 Capitol Mall, Suite 1250, Sacramento, California 95814, by fax to (916) 323-6826, or by e-mail to [email protected]. OAL may not accept and consider comments "if the emergency situation clearly poses such an immediate, serious harm that delaying action to allow public comment would be inconsistent with the public interest." (Government Code section 11349.6(b).)

When you submit a comment to OAL, you must also submit a copy of your comment to the rulemaking agency's contact person. OAL will confirm that the agency has received the comment before considering it. The comment must state that it is about an emergency regulation currently under OAL review and include the topic of the emergency. (Title 1, CCR, section 55(b)(1) through (4).)

The agency is not required to respond to comments submitted. If the agency chooses to respond, however, it must submit its response to OAL within eight calendar days after the date of submission of the proposed emergency regulation(s) to OAL (1 CCR 55), unless specific exceptions apply.

What must the rulemaking agency file with OAL in order to adopt emergency regulations?
The agency proposing adoption of emergency regulations must include the following in the file it submits to OAL (Title 1, CCR section 50):


(1) Proposed Emergency Regulation Text and STD. Form 400 (7 copies). (Government Code section 11346.1(b)(2); Title 1, CCR section 6.)
(2) Finding of Emergency (1 copy)

a. Agency statement of specific facts demonstrating existence of emergency and by substantial evidence need for immediate action (unless deemed an emergency by statute) (Government Code Section 11346.1(b)(2).)
b. Information required by Government Code Section 11346.5(a):

i. Authority and Reference citations
ii. Informative Digest
iii. Specific Agency Statutory Requirements
iv. Local Mandate Determination
v. Fiscal Impact Estimate and Form 399

c. Identification of each technical, theoretical, and empirical study, report, or similar document, if any, upon which the agency relies (Government Code section 11346.1(b)(2).)
d. Facts explaining the failure to address the situation through nonemergency regulations (only necessary if the emergency existed and was known by the agency in sufficient time to have been addressed through nonemergency regulations). (Government Code section 11346.1(b)(2).)

http://www.oal.ca.gov/res/docs/pdf/checklist/Emergency_Checklist_5-2012.pdf

What does OAL do in reviewing the proposed emergency rulemaking?
OAL has 10 calendar days within which to review and make a decision on the proposed emergency rulemaking file. If OAL approves the regulation, it will file the approved regulation with the Secretary of State. If OAL disapproves the regulation, it must write a decision explaining the reasons for disapproving it.

OAL reviews the file for the following (Government Code section 11349.6(b).):


A. Does the agency's finding of emergency demonstrate that the situation addressed by the regulations is an emergency?

B. Do the proposed emergency regulations comply with the six substantive standards of Government Code section 11349.1?

C. Did the agency comply with the procedural requirements of Government Code section 11346.1?

What is the effective period of approved emergency regulations?
An emergency regulation usually becomes effective when filed with the Secretary of State, and remains in effect for 180 days unless the agency files a completed rulemaking action with OAL or OAL approves a readoption of the emergency regulation during that time period. If an agency requests a readoption of an emergency, it must be submitted to OAL at least 10 calendar days prior to the expiration of the emergency effective period to avoid the possibility that the regulation lapses by operation of law during OAL's 10-day review. The time period of effectiveness for each readoption is 90 days and no more than two readoptions are permitted. (Government Code section 11346.1(h).)

Can emergency regulations become permanent?
Yes. Emergency regulations can become permanent if the agency adopts the emergency regulation through the regular rulemaking process within the time period the emergency regulations are in effect. This is commonly referred to as filing a Certificate of Compliance. When the agency files a completed rulemaking action, the emergency regulation stays in effect during OAL review. OAL reviews the proposed permanent regulation for compliance with all APA requirements for a regular rulemaking. (Government Code section 11346.1(e).)

If a Certificate of Compliance is submitted, the maximum time period for OAL review is 30 working days, although OAL may act earlier. A proposed rulemaking submitted with a Certificate of Compliance usually becomes effective on filing by OAL with the Secretary of State.

 

[theseeker]

With the new definition any suction device that pulls water from a river lake or stream. With this intentionally vague definition a foot valve will be cited as a dredge. All highbanking or pumping of water for mining purposes will be deemed dredging.

And yes there are many attacks on many levels. This is intentional. The more attacks, the more overwhelmed people are the more apathetic they get. This way a lot of their agenda moves forward without opposition.

The only loophole if this gets thru is running air to go underwater. The Agencies are working on a no motor or mechanical device definition right now. Oh they consider a sluice box and shovel to be mechanical.

It seems that the only logical way to combat the constant barrage of legal maneuvers is to have a legal team/watchdog group made up of attorneys and legal assistants representing mining interests nationwide that constantly respond to these attacks. (Not just the small miner but all mining,lumber private property interest). Is there an organization out there that does this? Responding piecemeal at the very last minute with comments that can/may/will be ignored may help but does not seem to be an adequate defense against their constant attack. Please note that I am not a miner in any sense of the word but I sure would like to have the option to do it if I chose to in the future. I am willing to respond and will but there has to be a better more unified way to address these attacks on our freedoms. Thanks for the heads up on this.

 

[dredgeman]

It seems that the only logical way to combat the constant barrage of legal maneuvers is to have a legal team/watchdog group made up of attorneys and legal assistants representing mining interests nationwide that constantly respond to these attacks. (Not just the small miner but all mining,lumber private property interest). Is there an organization out there that does this? Responding piecemeal at the very last minute with comments that can/may/will be ignored may help but does not seem to be an adequate defense against their constant attack. Please note that I am not a miner in any sense of the word but I sure would like to have the option to do it if I chose to in the future. I am willing to respond and will but there has to be a better more unified way to address these attacks on our freedoms. Thanks for the heads up on this.

defendruralamerica.org is a clearing house to bring the groups together and is gaining steam. Many groups are active within this site.
Sheriffs, Ranching, Lumber, Mining, Oyster farms, Farming.

By taking back Local Government we can keep control of the American Heritage and traditions of the people for the people and by the people.

Oakview same dredgeman Fresno/Clovis

 

[dredgeman]

Have a call into Martz cdfw to get his email. The response has to be sent to Fish and Wildlife contact agent and OAL. No response back yet

 

[theseeker]

chlsbrns, thanks for posting their Emergency Regulation Procedure. They definitely are not following the required process and in my comments to them, I will state that. Thanks.

 

[63bkpkr]

I've sent my comments in this morning to OAL. Thank you for the heads up for where to look on their home page as it is way too busy for clarity. I copied and pasted the info about the "Emergency" hearing to my document w/the OAL # so they know what my complaint/input is about.................................63bkpkr

 

[chlsbrns]

chlsbrns, thanks for posting their Emergency Regulation Procedure. They definitely are not following the required process and in my comments to them, I will state that. Thanks.

They want to change the "DEFINITION" of dredging not a "REGULATION"

A DEFINITION is not a REGULATION!

In other words not only are they not following the correct procedure, they are ignoring the fact that what they are changing is not a REGULATION it's a DEFINITION.

In other words they are trying to use the required procedure to change a REGULATION to change a DEFINITION.

"11342.545. "Emergency" means a situation that calls for immediate
action to avoid serious harm to the public peace, health, safety, or
general welfare"

Dredging is going to cause serious harm to the public peace, health, safety or general welfare?

 

[63bkpkr]

Also be sure to send your message to both the OAL as well as the "Fish & Game" department.

[email protected]

[email protected].


Dead Line is 24 June!!

 

[Alex Burke]

It seems that the only logical way to combat the constant barrage of legal maneuvers is to have a legal team/watchdog group made up of attorneys and legal assistants representing mining interests nationwide that constantly respond to these attacks. (Not just the small miner but all mining,lumber private property interest). Is there an organization out there that does this? Responding piecemeal at the very last minute with comments that can/may/will be ignored may help but does not seem to be an adequate defense against their constant attack. Please note that I am not a miner in any sense of the word but I sure would like to have the option to do it if I chose to in the future. I am willing to respond and will but there has to be a better more unified way to address these attacks on our freedoms. Thanks for the heads up on this.

I have asked similar questions to this seeker and have a few observations, at the risk of being called a commy, liberal, socialist or marxist I'll state them lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, DRA is a tea party group? WMA leans heavily that way by Palin vids 2nd ammend stuff on site also? Seem to be only reps of all small miners? Many good factual threads regarding our mining rights usually die after they become Pelosi/liberal bash fests or start to call for revolution and insinuating people need to get hurt or worse! I share the passion but I'm a pragmatist and the last thing that's going to start a revolution is our mining rights so why do we confuse the issue. I'm not naive enough to not realize that the money financing the land grabs usually comes from left but land grabs happen under both corrupt parties. Personally as someone who has a job and is also in the process of trying to start a business and may want to change my Tnet name to real one someday, like on mindat or other sites, I feel uncomfortable posting in some threads and I don't want to jump in to political and rabble rousing threads. Maybe we should be a little more inclusive in our message? As a Independent voter that thinks both parties are totally corrupt and 2 party system is a total failure I get turned off by far right or far left divisive politics. I absolutely respect peoples unwillingness to compromise their moral values on all issues but sometimes there are political costs to this strategy. Sorry if I offended anyone I just feel obligated to state this as someone who cares about this issue and you guys. Love Alex lol.
I'm sending comments now, this is the email to send them in case someone had trouble navigating to it: edit I got my comments sent back? they said to send to this [email protected].

 

[Fullpan]

We've been fighting mainly from the bottom of the heap. No money, no big pro-mining law firms, and no access to the media. Last I heard, the chairman
of the Natural Resources Committee is Doc Hastings back in Washington, D.C. I know both the WMA and DRA have had our voices heard back there. Problem is
mom-and-pop small-scale mining issues don't raise the needle.

What if momentum started at the top? How about a conservative push in the House to place a moratorium on all EPA, ESA, NEPA, and other environmental activities? Just like Calif. they could invoke AN EMERGENCY DECLARATION to halt the BS until a complete review of all negative consequences have been thoroughly re-studied. The emergency is the wholesale loss of American Enterprise.

 

[Alex Burke]

Yeah I'm happy someone has taken up the cause I didn't want that to be misunderstood thank you Fullpan. I do recognize the good work conservative's and " teapartiers" have done on the issue and should have clarified that more. Hefty, 63 and yourself Oakview and many others on this forum have worked tirelessly on the issue.