Do I need a Recreational Permit in AZ?

[Frghtshkr]

I was out on one of the GPAA claims yesterday Wickenberg area, where I always go pretty much. I had a great time and found a little gold but I have a question. I ran into a couple of guys real nice and we swapped some stories.

They asked if I was a GPAA memeber which I am. they also asked if i had a "Recreational Use Permit" and I said I never heard of it. They said they hadnt either but were told by someone else they needed one last time they were out. So they purchased one at $ 15.00 per year.

I mentioned to them it doesnt say anything about this in the GPAA book and they said they couldnt find it anywhere either. has anyone heard of this? $ 15.00 wont break me but I dont like just giving money away.

Thanks

 

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[Maitland]

I can't answer your question, but a "recreational permit" for prospecting better not be some new ongoing trend or something. There's no way in hell I'll ever buy one, this land is my land.

 

[Frghtshkr]

My thoughts exactly

 

[Clay Diggins]

There are no recreational permits for prospecting in Arizona.

You probably bought a recreational permit for State Trust land. Those are for people who want to camp on state land. Mining claims are on Federal land, not state land. There are no claims and no prospecting allowed on state land so your State Recreation "permit" is worthless for prospecting.

Heavy Pans

 

[goldenIrishman]

Yup.... Sounds like someone from some agency was trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes and generate some revenue at the same time. Anytime you want to find out just who is the controlling agency for an area you can go to Land Matters and pull up the claims map for that state. Turn on the land management layer and it will tell you who has the say so in that section. orange for BLM, Blue for state etc etc etc. If you don't know what a color means just zoom in and it will be noted by the edge of the area. They did a REALLY good job setting that up.

You still need to be careful in some areas because the section can have multiple agencies in control of it. While setting up my portable field version of the management info, I found one section (each section is 640 acres) that had four different controlling parties within its boundaries. Looked like a real party in fact! This one section had BLM, State, BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) as well as private land all crowded together.

 

[russau]

when a person joins the gpaa he gets 2 cards. one is his membership card and the other is his "recreational use permit". why they even have this is beyond me! Im not even sure if they still have this in their membership! I quit them 5 or 6 years ago and haven't looked back!

 

[goldenIrishman]

I've never been a member but have several friends that either are or have been. I never saw the sense in joining them in the past and with all the changes they've made in the last few years I see no sense in joining them now. I feel my money is better spent supporting groups like PLP or WMA. Less politics and more results!

 

[arizau]

There are no recreational permits for prospecting in Arizona.

You probably bought a recreational permit for State Trust land. Those are for people who want to camp on state land. Mining claims are on Federal land, not state land. There are no claims and no prospecting allowed on state land so your State Recreation "permit" is worthless for prospecting.

Heavy Pans

Per law a permit is needed when you are on Arizona State Trust Land. My understanding is that licensed hunters are allowed without permit though. Here are the rules.
https://land.az.gov/sites/default/files/documents/files/RecreationPermit.pdf

 

[Clay Diggins]

The permit is to recreate on State Trust lands. Just traveling through doesn't require a permit. If you want to explore with your UTV or camp you will need to get the permit.

$15 isn't much for a year long camping permit. A lot of folks spend the winter in their RVs on the State land. Some of them even pay for the permit.

Heavy Pans

 

[SLNugget]

The permit is to recreate on State Trust lands. Just traveling through doesn't require a permit. If you want to explore with your UTV or camp you will need to get the permit.

$15 isn't much for a year long camping permit. A lot of folks spend the winter in their RVs on the State land. Some of them even pay for the permit.

Heavy Pans

According to the rules camping on State Trust Land is limited to 14 days per year. I know that has been very loosely enforced in the past. But someone apparently has their panties in a wad right now.

 

[azblackbird]

There are no claims and no prospecting allowed on state land so your State Recreation "permit" is worthless for prospecting.

No claiming AZ state trust land, just leasing. Prospecting/exploration is allowed with a state issued permit. If approved for a permit, then you file a POO and post a bond. I've talked to a couple guys with operations on trust land and they say the state is actually easier to deal with than the Feds.

 

[Bill_saf]

when a person joins the gpaa he gets 2 cards. one is his membership card and the other is his "recreational use permit". why they even have this is beyond me! Im not even sure if they still have this in their membership! I quit them 5 or 6 years ago and haven't looked back!

It's that way 2 cards

Bill

 

[Frghtshkr]

Thank you all for clearing this up for me. I didnt think I needed a permit either so now i feel comforatble not getting one. And thank you for the info on the Stae Trust Land as well I have a couple placing araound here and I never understood what they were.

 

[arizau]

The permit is to recreate on State Trust lands. Just traveling through doesn't require a permit. If you want to explore with your UTV or camp you will need to get the permit.

$15 isn't much for a year long camping permit. A lot of folks spend the winter in their RVs on the State land. Some of them even pay for the permit.

The links below are examples of the types of AZ State Trust signs that I have encountered. How am I to interpret these signs even if the intent is just to travel through or drive a few miles and reverse my route? Is there an actual right of way? Here is an excerpt from an official site: State Land Department (Recreational Permit)
Arizona State Land DepartmentArizona State Trust Lands are not public lands. The OHV decal allows vehicles to cross Trust Lands and operate on existing roads and trails only. A recreation permit is required for all other uses such as hiking, camping, picnicking, and leaving a staging vehicle on State Trust Lands. A permit is not required to travel on county maintained dirt roads or routes with access easements. For complete information on the recreation permit and its requirements, please visit https://land.az.gov/natural-resources/recreational-permit
I think the key is travel only on county maintained roads as stated above or get a permit.

Heavy Pans

https://www.google.com/search?q=az+...arizona-state-trust-lands-nf-blm.html;208;314

https://www.google.com/search?q=az+...nding-boondocking-spots-in-arizona%2F;800;558

 

[Clay Diggins]

You aren't trespassing on State lands just by driving or walking through.

Here is the law on just what trespass is on Arizona State Lands:

37-501. Trespass on state lands; classification

A person is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor who:

1. Knowingly commits a trespass upon state lands, either by cutting down or destroying timber or wood standing or growing thereon, by carrying away timber or wood therefrom, by mowing, cutting, or removing hay or grass thereon or therefrom, or by grazing livestock thereon, unless he has a lease or sublease approved by the department for the area being grazed.

2. Knowingly extracts or removes oil, gas, coal, mineral, earth, rock, fertilizer or fossils of any kind or description therefrom.

3. Knowingly without right injures or removes any building, fence or improvements on state lands, or unlawfully occupies, plows or cultivates any of the lands.

4. With criminal negligence exposes growing trees, shrubs or undergrowth standing on state lands to danger or destruction by fire.

Nothing in those trespass laws about driving or walking. If a public road goes through State land you can pass over that land.

The OHV sticker is a different issue - that has to do with vehicle licensing - not your right to pass over State lands on the public way.

Heavy Pans

 

[goldenIrishman]

Hummm.... I thought that as per the Constitution the states were not allowed to own land other than that which the state capitol buildings sit on. So how do they end up as the trustees of all this land? I remember you had told me in an email it had to do with old railroad right of ways, but how did the state end up in charge of them? I would have thought that the land would have reverted back to the people of the country and would be treated like land controlled by the BLM. Was this just a case of the state seeing a possible good thing and jumping on it? Between things like recreation passes, grazing leases etc I'd imagine that they've made a buck or two off all those acres over the years.

I've got a map in my files that shows the state trust lands and just who they're held in trust for. The list of different groups is vast to say the least. Everything from the Arizona Military Academy to the Old Miners Home. Many of the groups listed on the map I've never even heard of. I'll see if I can find that file and post it here. I've got so many maps now that it might take a while to dig it up. Maybe there's someone else here that likes looking at off the wall information too.

 

[arizau]

You aren't trespassing on State lands just by driving or walking through.

Here is the law on just what trespass is on Arizona State Lands:



Nothing in those trespass laws about driving or walking. If a public road goes through State land you can pass over that land.

The OHV sticker is a different issue - that has to do with vehicle licensing - not your right to pass over State lands on the public way.

Heavy Pans

Thanks for the clarification.

I found that statute but I also found this.
Trespass Program
In Arizona Attorney General’s Opinion #74-13 of August 1, 1974, Attorney General N. Warner Lee sets forth that “No one may enter upon State Trust Land without a permit. ”Like many crimes, illegal occupancy of Trust land ranges from minor to major offenses. Even people walking their dog on Trust land in their community must have a permit, in this case a Recreational Use Permit."

Talk about conflicting thus confusing!!!! I guess there is trespass, then there is trespass then there is...... sort of "what the meaning of is, is" in AZ administrative language.

 

[Goldwasher]

Weren't certain sections in each town ship set aside in trust to generate revenue? I don't live there but, I remember reading something to that affect.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The State Trust Lands are not owned by the State of Arizona. They are owned by the 13 individual land trusts. Arizona State does not control those trust lands although the Governor does appoint some members of the Trust Lands board.

Arizona was granted at Statehood Sections 2 and 32 of each Township for the land trusts as long as those were not mineral lands or already occupied. Sections 16 and 36 had already been granted to the trusts long before Arizona became a State. If they were mineral or occupied the Trusts were allowed to make an alternate selection.

Arizona's legislature voted themselves the right to buy and sell lands for themselves and also recently voted themselves the right to sell trust lands. Neither of those rights were in the State Constitution or the Enabling Act. I doubt any of that would be legal but Arizona's legislature also can fire Judges that don't agree with it.

Those are the same reasons President Taft refused to sign the enabling Act to create Arizona State - an independent judiciary is a basic principle of a Republican form of government and the Constitution guarantees all States a Republican form of government. Arizona changed their Constitution to get statehood and then promptly changed it back when Taft signed the second bill months later. Justice has a different smell in Arizona as a result.

History lesson over.

Heavy Pans

 

[timemachine]

Thanks for the post! This is just what I was looking for today...