What makes a mining claim official?

[mofugly13]

What makes a mining claim 'official?'

From what I understand, when you properly set your location monument and notice on a piece of land open to mineral entry, your claim is valid at that point and as long as you file the proper paperwork with BLM and the County Recorder within 90 days. Now, what happens if someone places the location monument and notice, and waits 70 days to send in their paperwork. In the mean time, say a week after the locator is placed, someone else comes along and places a locator on the same 20 acres and immediately sends in their paperwork. So, person 1 places the first monument and notice, but person 2 comes along and does the same, and then gets their paperwork in faster than person 1?

Lets assume person 2 didn't see the monument that person 1 placed.

Who has the valid claim?

Is the date that the BLM records the claim the deciding factor? Or is it when the county records the claim?

 

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[itspaidfor]

From what I understand, when you properly set your location monument and notice on a piece of land open to mineral entry, your claim is valid at that point and as long as you file the proper paperwork with BLM and the County Recorder within 90 days. Now, what happens if someone places the location monument and notice, and waits 70 days to send in their paperwork. In the mean time, say a week after the locator is placed, someone else comes along and places a locator on the same 20 acres and immediately sends in their paperwork. So, person 1 places the first monument and notice, but person 2 comes along and does the same, and then gets their paperwork in faster than person 1?

Lets assume person 2 didn't see the monument that person 1 placed.

Who has the valid claim?

Is the date that the BLM records the claim the deciding factor? Or is it when the county records the claim?

Its the county. If you end up in court,as blm goes by county discovery certificate. If it were me I would hammer in discovery monument have ALL paperwork ready and haulAZZ to courthouse. You will be fine.come back and stake corners next day.

 

[winners58]

There have been court case's were two people file and record with the county the same day
that one person wrote in the date September 2 as the location date thinking that because BLM
allowed miners to file on that date because that year the 1st was a Sunday
and the other guy wrote in September 1st at noon and the judge ruled that his claim was superior.
My thinking is its the date stamp of the county recorder, "located and recorded" makes a legal claim.
I'm going through this my self I filed in November they came in a month and a half later and put there location date as earlier
and now have 10 acres of there claim overlapping my claim, I don’t have any money to take them to court and don’t know if I would win!

 

[goldenIrishman]

When you stake a claim it is important to make a visual record of you doing so. Photos of before and after the staking is done can cover your butt if it ends up in court. Not sure about it in other states, but Arizona requires boots on the ground and that a discovery be made before you file. By taking pictures you have proof that you've met the requirements of the laws.

On the day that you are going to be staking corners and getting your monument of discovery put up, stop and pick up a copy of the morning news paper. Include it in the shots to prove the date. Date-time stamps on cameras can be adjusted to show any date, but the date on a publication like a newspaper is fixed.
Also take a witness with you if possible and include them in the pictures. Get pictures before and after to show that there was nothing there before you staked it. Use a film type camera if at all possible and get them developed with double prints. Keep one set of prints for your records and attach the other set to the map of the claim submitted to the county.

Its an unfortunate truth that we have to do everything we can to protect ourselves from lazy thieves that want to steal our claims only so they can turn around and sell them. This is against the law anyway.

 

[Clay Diggins]

When you post a location notice on the monument your Location is established. That becomes your location date no matter when you record the notice at the County Recorder or file a copy with the BLM.

A valid Claim consists of a lot more than a valid location. Your claimed location, if properly made on lands open to mineral entry, establishes your rights against other subsequent prospectors/locators.

If your location was the first in time you have prior rights to any other locators. If your location was not first in time the location is invalid even if the prior locator drops their claim. No location made over an existing location is valid. Having the first location does not, in itself, make a valid claim.

GoldenIrishman's suggestion of witnesses and photos is right on. You will need a disinterested party that can swear to your act and date of location.

The newspaper thing really doesn't prove anything, I could get a year old newspaper and take a picture in front of your monument and claim my location was a year before yours. Newspapers only work if you want to prove something happened today, they can't prove something happened in the past. Rely on a witness to establish your location date, the pictures are just there to show the act of staking.

A valid perfected claim gives you greater rights than a mere location. To learn the steps to perfecting your claim you will need to study the requirements laid out in the 1872 Mining Act.

Heavy Pans

 

[fowledup]

I had a thought of taking an onsite picture in front of the monument of my calendar on my smart phone, as far as I know and I may be totally wrong but I don't think you can manipulate the factory date setting and picture on your phone. Have your witness in the photo as well. On a more drastic note you could always schedule a surgery that will leave a nice scar and do a before and after picture. LOL! One of my partners and I actually gave this some thought, as I just had a knee replacement and he's getting one done in a week or so. THe idea is to go up take a picture of him with no scar standing in front of the monument, then as soon as he can walk do it again showing that nice big zipper going down the knee, that would be easy to verify or establish a time frame.

 

[mofugly13]

When you post a location notice on the monument your Location is established. That becomes your location date no matter when you record the notice at the County Recorder or file a copy with the BLM.

A valid Claim consists of a lot more than a valid location. Your claimed location, if properly made on lands open to mineral entry, establishes your rights against other subsequent prospectors/locators.

If your location was the first in time you have prior rights to any other locators. If your location was not first in time the location is invalid even if the prior locator drops their claim. No location made over an existing location is valid. Having the first location does not, in itself, make a valid claim.
GoldenIrishman's suggestion of witnesses and photos is right on. You will need a disinterested party that can swear to your act and date of location.

The newspaper thing really doesn't prove anything, I could get a year old newspaper and take a picture in front of your monument and claim my location was a year before yours. Newspapers only work if you want to prove something happened today, they can't prove something happened in the past. Rely on a witness to establish your location date, the pictures are just there to show the act of staking.

A valid perfected claim gives you greater rights than a mere location. To learn the steps to perfecting your claim you will need to study the requirements laid out in the 1872 Mining Act.

Heavy Pans

The bold part is interesting to me. While researching and doing all the due diligence required to stake two claims recently, I found a claim that di not pay their assessment, but had not yet declared forfeited/void per LR2000. I thought that while I was travelling to make my claims, I'd check this spot and possibly claim it myself. After a trip to BLM and making copies of all the records in the area I was interested in, I found that someone had overclaimed this exact 20 acre parcel 10 years after the original claimant. The original claimant, who located the claim in 2001, had kept up on yearly fees/proof of labor up until 2014. The second claimant had done the same since locating the claim in 2010, and is current to 2015. If what you are saying is correct, and given your reputation here I have no reason whatsoever to believe it's not, then the second claim was not valid. And, even though the original claimant has forfeited by default the claim, the second claim is still not valid. Could I then go make a location notice and file a claim on this spot, and be the valid claimant? Or, does a claim have to be declared void or forfeited by BLM before someone else can claim it?

 

[winners58]

does the records you have show down to the quadrant, LR2000 only shows the quarter like NW quarter
thought you had to get the original from the county recorders that shows like; N 1/4 of the S 1/4 of the NW quarter
if it was never voided then its still valid, BLM just stores records, they rarely get involved, try this link scroll down to Ch VI.
http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/b...y/blm_handbook.Par.79360.File.dat/h3870-1.pdf

 

[mofugly13]

I went to BLM and got the claim paperwork based on the CAMC number. I looked at the documents for all the claims in the section I was looking at. Both of these claims were on the exact same 1/2 of a 1/4 of a 1/4. These are in Nevada county, and what I have discovered is that there is not always a map submitted with claim location notices at the county recorders office.

When a claim is declared void or forfeited, who is the agency making that determination?

 

[goldenIrishman]

I believe that would be the BLM. They don't get their fees on time and it's kiss the claim good-bye.

 

[fowledup]

There is another part to that from Sec 5, of the 1872 mining law, that could come into play. Clay or anyone that has a clear definition please phrase this better, correct me, or tell us if something since has altered this, which ever applies. I know of a situation where this is pertinent and am eager to know if my convoluted interpretation is correct in the matter;
If the original locator defaults the claim, it can be relocated nullifying the original first in time location. Provided the defaulter has not commenced in reestablishing the claim as his by correcting the default, or filling a new location notice prior to a new claimant attempting to locate and file.
Meaning in my mind that should a person find a claim that has been defaulted and post a new location notice on the monument before the original claimant has relocated or tried to correct the discrepency the new filing becomes first in time nullifying the original. Flip side, should you find a defaulted claim and the claim owner is in the process of rectifying the default and you post a new location notice on the defaulted claim post his efforts, yours would be nullified and the original claimant would retain first in time.

 

[mofugly13]

Lets throw in a monkey wench:

Claimant #1 locates a claim in 2002, proceeds to file assessments and or pay maintenance fees through 2014, defaults for 2015, claim declared CLOSED 9/14
Claimant #2 locates same exact piece of land in 2012, proceeds to file assessments and or pay maintenance fees up to 2015, is current on all fees and claim is ACTIVE.
Claimant #3 locates same exact piece of land in 2015, after claimant #1's claim is closed.

Whose claim is it?

It seems to me that claimant #2 never had a valid claim because he overclaimed claimant #1. Since claim #2 was never valid, it does not automatically become valid just because claimant #1 defaulted. Claimant #3 has the valid claim

 

[goldenIrishman]

Actually that's an easy one. Contestant #3 is the winner In this case. Contestant #2 never had a valid claim to start with even though he had paid fees on it for a couple of years. BLM isn't going to care that the claim is no good and really now, has ANYONE ever gotten a refund from them?

 

[Clay Diggins]

#2 might have had a valid claim if the #1 locator had located over a previously existing valid claim. You can't know without looking over the whole history of the land.

This is why if you wish to make an adverse claim you have 30 days after you locate your claim to file suit and serve the existing claimant. You have the right to prove your claim is the valid one in a court of law. You do not have the right to make that determination without a court judgement.

WARNING: Courts are historically very lenient when it comes to procedural or paperwork errors in making a location. Trying to get a senior claimants location invalidated for technical reasons is rarely successful. In the business of mining using lawyers to take someones claim away on a technicality is known as "claim jumping". Don't be a claimjumper!

There is a way to overclaim an existing claim that you feel is invalid. Please assume all claims are valid until proven otherwise in court. If miners can't respect each others rights how can you expect the general public to respect your rights?

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

There is another part to that from Sec 5, of the 1872 mining law, that could come into play. Clay or anyone that has a clear definition please phrase this better, correct me, or tell us if something since has altered this, which ever applies. I know of a situation where this is pertinent and am eager to know if my convoluted interpretation is correct in the matter;
If the original locator defaults the claim, it can be relocated nullifying the original first in time location. Provided the defaulter has not commenced in reestablishing the claim as his by correcting the default, or filling a new location notice prior to a new claimant attempting to locate and file.
Meaning in my mind that should a person find a claim that has been defaulted and post a new location notice on the monument before the original claimant has relocated or tried to correct the discrepency the new filing becomes first in time nullifying the original. Flip side, should you find a defaulted claim and the claim owner is in the process of rectifying the default and you post a new location notice on the defaulted claim post his efforts, yours would be nullified and the original claimant would retain first in time.

That's true with one small exception below. Basically it's just a matter or who makes the first location after the claim is abandoned. If the original locator re-locates first he has 90 days to record, file and pay the fees. If someone else does that first they are the new locator.

Section 5 of the 1872 Mining Act makes one exception to the first locator rule. If the original locator has resumed work and is diligently pursuing mining the claim (actually actively mining or doing discovery work) within 30 days of missing their annual filing they have priority when refiling. In other words if the original claimant is occupying the claim you can not locate your claim there.

Heavy Pans