Conflict on Memeriol day

[Miner49er_2015]

Conflict on Memorial Day

Ok, spent Memorial day out prospecting. Have been to this particular area off and on for years now, just assumed it was not claimed and would poke around with the high banker or gold pan. Well, this time, a guy rolls up to my truck on a quad as I am walking back to it. I say "Hello" and this guy goes into a tirade about how this is HIS mining claim and that I should not even think about "Claim jumping" him. The thought never crossed my mind. I explained that I did not see any mine claim notices or location notices and also politely informed this guy that if this was indeed his claim, that is was supposed to be marked according to Federal regulations. That comment really seemed to piss him off! He could not produce anything to say whether or not this was his claim or not. I apologized for prospecting on "his" claim, said I didn't see any notices and got in my truck and left as quick as I could. I was not going to argue law, as he was packing some heat. Open carry with a hand gun is not legal here in California, heck, you can't even open carry an unloaded rifle here anymore! Well, I have prospected all over this area over the years and have never seen a single mine claim notice, marker or location notices. Isn't it the responsibility of the claim owner to properly mark all corners and post a location notice? Am I missing something here? Just wanted to post my experience.

 

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[CA Gold Hunter]

I'd bet that law is unconstitutional, at best, and would be overturned if it came to a court case.
Jim

It was done because of the open carriers in california... They brought to much attention to the fact we could still unloaded open carry in incorporated areas and then they passed laws to keep us from doing that. You can however still have a loaded magazine sitting next to the firearm in a locked box now when traveling. There's no law about not having ammo in the cab, the firearm must just be locked up.

On the bright side the calguns foundation and a few other groups are fighting for shall issue ccw here in california.

 

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[kayakpat]

so for my understanding, you cannot just drive thru California stop by any old creek and just pan a little with out looking up if someone has a claim? or out for a long hike and carry a pistol or rifle? even if you have a hunting or fishing licsence or CCW permit?

 

[Jim in Idaho]

It was done because of the open carriers in california... They brought to much attention to the fact we could still unloaded open carry in incorporated areas and then they passed laws to keep us from doing that. You can however still have a loaded magazine sitting next to the firearm in a locked box now when traveling. There's no law about not having ammo in the cab, the firearm must just be locked up.

On the bright side the calguns foundation and a few other groups are fighting for shall issue ccw here in california.

Doesn't really matter why it was done...could be for the best reasons in the world.....it still infringes my right to self-defense. That is a God-given, or natural right. I don't have to ask the government for permission for that one. Sure glad I left KA many years ago....I'll be dead before Idaho gets like KA.
Jim

 

[Asmbandits]

My friends and I call these guys "claims trolls". Often they are NOT the claim owner and occasionally there isn't even a claim! They may just be hostile to mining and have learned how to chase us off by saying there's a claim. If you do your research on mylandmatters.org before you go out, you'll be able to show him your notes and printouts.

This is so true, I always research the areas a intend to prospect before hand and have had multiple occasions where I've ran into people saying anything and everything to keep you from the land you have every right to be on. Most recently was heading to an area of forest that is not claimed, not private property but borders with some private property. As I'm riding down a public road a guy comes out of nowhere on a quad, passes me then skids and blocks the road. Knowing I'm not doing anything wrong and am on public land I stop and he starts angrily yelling demanding to know what I'm doing and where I'm going when I asked why he tells me this is all private property and I need to leave. Instead of arguing I turned around and rode down to the ranger station and reported the guy and they said they would look into it. A real level headed claim owner imo should be prepared to give some proof of ownership other than aggressive intimidation. Of course you should know the land you intend on prospecting that is a given but imo a claim owner should hold some responsibility in this situation to set things straight in a factfull manner. Also some people will even post keep out signage near their land or access areas thats not even on their land almost like they think they can keep people of land near their land. From what I've seen it seems like I see a lot of keep out signs in questionable areas and private property signs in obvious areas. Not saying this is always the case but I've seen enough of it in areas I know are public to question the validity of some keep out signage.. Now if your land borders forest land and you have no signage or obvious borders or signage and you find someone on your land you should atleast be realistic and not so stand offish imo as that is somewhat on you.

 

[bobw53]

Of course you should know the land you intend on prospecting that is a given but imo a claim owner should hold some responsibility in this situation to set things straight in a factfull manner.

I'd almost welcome somebody trespassing on my claim... Chances are they know more than me, and if they don't, I'd let them sample around as long as they let me know where the good stuff was....

I pulled up to the cattle gate yesterday, and there was a mini van there, and an older lady inside the gate looking at rocks on the ground.. I said "Hi, How you doing".. Pulled through, got out to
close the gate, and just being polite asked if she's finding anything good. She said "No, just looking".. "Good luck" and I headed down to my claim.. I could still see her minivan where I was working...
Then I here, "squeel, beep beep beep"... Her headphones must have fallen out..

I *almost* drove back up there to ask if she wanted to come down and swing that sucker on my claim...

Is there a proper etiquette for when you catch somebody on your claim? I'm pretty sure I would be civil, I'm a little protective of it... I guess it depends on the high graders attitude, if they blatantly
knew... I don't know, but if they truly didn't know... I think I'd invite them to help me find the good stuff (just stay away from that hole, that hole, and that tailings pile)...

If I was trying to make a living off a claim, I'd probably be a bit nasty, then again, if I was trying to make a living off of it I'd probably have it staked every six inches and be out there everyday..
As of right now, its a way to recoup part of my Jet Dry costs.

 

[ratled]

imo a claim owner should hold some responsibility in this situation to set things straight in a factfull manner.

They/I did, I recorded the claim with both the county and BLM AFTER posting a discovery monument with the claim paperwork. You can go there and look it up anytime you want. Half the reason to buy a REPUTABLE claim is the legal leg work is the real PITA. The reason so many folks get scammed by a shady seller / paper hanger is buying a claim w/o doing their own DD that comes with buying a claim

ratled

 

[KevinInColorado]

Bobw53 - I love that comment "a way to recoup my Jetdry costs" lol!! [emoji1]

 

[beekbuster]

dont be so afraid of anyone who carries a weapon. outside city limits it is legal, public or private. and again its our responsibility to know if its legal to prospect an area, its no different that hunting or fishing, you have to know whats open and whats not. take initiative and inform yourself, it can save you a lot of heartache. i like when a claim is posted, but it is not required, only a discovery marker. myland matters is a good resource, but is only as up to date as the lr2000.. take for example a claim close to here that was registered in early march just hit landmatters a week ago. i was eyeballing this spot for a while and has heavy claim history, and now its taken. these websites only give you a quarter section at best of accuacy. so that 20 acre claim is somewhere in that 160 acre quarter section. county clerk can tell u exact boundaries.

 

[beekbuster]

I'd bet that law is unconstitutional, at best, and would be overturned if it came to a court case.
Jim

the laws pertaining to weapons in vehicles change with the wind here in commifornia. my hunting and fishing license double as immunity from these ridiculous 'laws'. because there is a thread of sanity left in the law books and its only a matter of time before they call it an outdated and unneccesary law... im talking about when in transit to and from hunting or fishing you can possess an unloaded weapon that is NOT concealed, pistol or rifle in your vehicle with the ammo NEXT to the gun, but not attached. i have never been questioned by an officer, they run the numbers to make sure its mine and they give it back.

 

[bobw53]

county clerk can tell u exact boundaries.

Here is the crappy part, from my experience, as nice and as helpful as the ladies were down at the clerks office, they don't know a jelly glazed donut from a mining claim...
They record stuff, that's pretty much what they do, they will help you look up stuff that they recorded, but they do not know what it means. Its up to you to figure out
what it all means.... The people I dealt with, absolutely fantastic, helpful, and they know their job... Their job is not mining claims, their job is to record paperwork, and
then help you look it up.

Another little twisted bit as far as claims go... The OFFICIAL place that the claim is recorded... They don't care, and they don't know... I could send 27 people in one right
after the other, filing on the same claim... They would record every single one of them, and take the $10 from each one..

Here is a fun one for you... In this state you can't notarize a spouses signature...


Mary Grajewski, named on the claim.... Mary Helen Green, notary.

Mary Grajewski not named on the claim.. Mary Helen Geen, Notary... Notice the M's

Just in case you think they aren't the same person... Marriage license...

I called the clerks office, they said, that is wrong, that can't happen... And I asked what if it did... They still record it because it
has a notary stamp... And any wrong that has happened is a civil matter that I have to take to court...

So, as nice and helpful as the folks at the clerks office can be, and the folks at my clerks office were awesome helping me look stuff up,
they can't tell you a mining claim boundary from a restraining order... They record stuff, and they help you find stuff, its the "OFFICIAL"
place to record a claim, but that doesn't mean it is valid, or invalid, on non-claimable land, or claimed over somebody else (Claim Jumping)...

Just right around my claim, I found somebody paying for an 80 acre claim for quite a few year, no small miner waiver, and 30 or so acres of it
is over lode claims that have been there since 1970... And then over the other way... There is a 40 acre placer with a 20 acre placer over that
and a lode claim that follows the PLSS grid (1320x600) over the 20 acre placer(minus a 60ftx1320ft strip).

So this is all clear as mud now isn't it? The "official" place to record a claim, can't tell you if its an official claim or not, and its not their job to care....
The BLM, which gets most of the money is more than happy to take $155 X 3 for the same 20 acres, and they don't care...

Its kind of like a patent... Its your job to defend it, if your buddy is a Sheriff, he can keep an eye on it, but beyond that its your job... And if
the Sheriff doesn't care, there really isn't much you can do, but go to court... And if somebody is out there dry-washing a yard or 2, is it really
worth it? I'd rather make a friend (or a friendly acquaintance) than an enemy.

Either way... The ladies down at the clerk's office can't tell you much... But they know what they are doing, recording stuff and helping you look it up..
The info on the piece of paper they help you find is your business, not theirs... Treat them well.

 

[Asmbandits]

Its kind of like a patent... Its your job to defend it, if your buddy is a Sheriff, he can keep an eye on it, but beyond that its your job... And if
the Sheriff doesn't care, there really isn't much you can do, but go to court... And if somebody is out there dry-washing a yard or 2, is it really
worth it? I'd rather make a friend (or a friendly acquaintance) than an enemy.

I couldn't agree more with this, id rather educate and address the matter civilly to someone high grading, no need to go deliverance on anyone just because im right.. Every situation is different but for the most part in not worried about the guy with the pan that doesn't know any better which is probably 90% of the type you would run into in this situation, heck let them have there fun for some color and move some overburden or put you onto something. The other 10%, someone actually mining and spending time working a prospect would be dealt with differently, but still as civilly as the situation allows..

 

[bobw53]

Holy Crap, I'm a bit smitten... Mr. Diggins, Mr. Landmatters, has given me 2 likes in this thread.. And it was on claim advice...

I'm a newbie, and a lot of what I learned, or was forced to learn came from Mr. "sticky dirt that steals my gold" Diggins.

Woo Hoo!!!!! Maybe I actually did learn something.

 

[beekbuster]

so to stir the pot a little more, why are there hundreds of claims not listed on the lr2000. take for example east fork rd out of french gulch, lr2000 shows 5 claims in one section. if you drive down that rd it is clear to see that there are many more claims than that, i dont think there is any part of that creek that is not claimed. also im sure there are people that post areas as claimed just to keep others out.

 

[bobw53]

so to stir the pot a little more, why are there hundreds of claims not listed on the lr2000. take for example east fork rd out of french gulch, lr2000 shows 5 claims in one section. if you drive down that rd it is clear to see that there are many more claims than that, i dont think there is any part of that creek that is not claimed. also im sure there are people that post areas as claimed just to keep others out.

On my claim, and right around my claim, there are literally tons of old posts, and discovery monuments.. The hillside over yonder looks like somebody started a PVC pipe farm..
Just because there is a post there doesn't mean its active. And again, the LR2000 or Mylandmatters is only a reference, it all starts and ends at the county clerks office...
You also might be able to call the public room, or the land law officer at the BLM, their info *should* be up to date... But again, that isn't official, but at least they should be able to
look it up by Township,Range and Section.

If some of that creek isn't claimed, and you want it... Go get it.