Mumford bar trail, north fork American river

[sublimages]

I will be spending a couple days on exploring the north fork american river, via the mumford bar trail. Does anyone with first hand experience of the area have any tips/warnings/ suggestions?
Thanks

 

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[Goldwasher]

watch out lots of claims....and bears are prolific this year..

 

[sublimages]

Thanks for the advice. Kinda weird Tahoe National Forest - Mumford Bar Trail mentions gold panning as an activity with no mention of checking for claims first.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The Forest Service isn't in charge of checking for claims. It's a surface management agency, they don't have any authority over mineral rights. You might as well ask your neighbor's cat about mineral rights in the forest. At least the cat won't encourage you to break the law.

It is the legal obligation of each prospector to make sure they will not be trespassing on another miner's rights before proceeding to prospect. It's called due diligence and it's been a requirement in law long before there was a Mining Act.

There appears to be a lot of private land in that area as well as along the trail. There are a few claims too. Why not do the right thing and get an idea of whose rights you will be encountering when you travel there. It's not all that hard and it's free at Land Matters. Here's a link to the Mining Claims Maps, you will find a current land management layer on those maps that shows where the private land is too.

Have a safe trip.

Heavy Pans

 

[sublimages]

I have never been able to get that site to work correctly. Tried two computers and my phone.

 

[The Gilded Lens]

Bears, prolific poision oak, burn scars. That is a loooong hike.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I have never been able to get that site to work correctly. Tried two computers and my phone.

The site has worked fine for more than 2 million visitors so far this year. Served up more than 384 Gigabytes of maps and data during those 7 1/2 months.

From the site:

Without javascript or cookies enabled you can still browse the Land Matters website but some search features and all mapping will be mostly nonfunctional.

If you have a popup blocker sometimes (rarely) that can keep the maps from opening.

If you have any issues beyond those PM me here or Contact Land Matters describing your problem so they can make it work for you.

There are alternatives but they cost money and aren't as current or accurate.

Heavy Pans

 

[russau]

The Forest Service isn't in charge of checking for claims. It's a surface management agency, they don't have any authority over mineral rights. You might as well ask your neighbor's cat about mineral rights in the forest. At least the cat won't encourage you to break the law.

It is the legal obligation of each prospector to make sure they will not be trespassing on another miner's rights before proceeding to prospect. It's called due diligence and it's been a requirement in law long before there was a Mining Act.

There appears to be a lot of private land in that area as well as along the trail. There are a few claims too. Why not do the right thing and get an idea of whose rights you will be encountering when you travel there. It's not all that hard and it's free at Land Matters. Here's a link to the Mining Claims Maps, you will find a current land management layer on those maps that shows where the private land is too.

what a FANTASTIC site and service to all who use this site! SALUTE to you Clay!

 

[sublimages]

To say the alternatives aren't as current or cost money when your data is updated twice month from the FREE lr2000 database is a false and misleading statement.

 

[Clay Diggins]

To say the alternatives aren't as current or cost money when your data is updated twice month from the FREE lr2000 database is a false and misleading statement.

False and misleading is a pretty bold statement. You will have to provide more information to back up that claim sublimages.

Do you know of any mapping application, paid or free, that presents more current mining claims information than Land Matters?

Heavy Pans

 

[63bkpkr]

Hello Sub,
The mumford bar trail has a dickens of a lot of switchbacks on it but it is an easy trail to hike, assuming the hiker is in reasonable condition. It is among one of the easiest trails along the NFAR.

I think it was the 2008 or 9 fire that burned the area and took out the forest to the tops of the trees. This has allowed the sunlight to reach the forest floor making the weeds Plentiful as well as 6' to 8' tall. Just before the trail reaches the river the weeds are especially bad, thick and tall, at least that is the way it was the last time I hiked it ~2010.

There is the remains of a log cabin next to the trail, after you get past the weeds, with a spring running past it, maybe not now though, with a very large apple tree ~ 100' from the cabin to the right. The trail down the river side wall is steep, to the right of where the spring goes over the sidewall. This year as the water flow is ~ 30 CFS right now (take that is being extremely low and filled with algae) one will have an easy time of crossing the river anywhere. It will be very wise to filter or treat the water Before drinking it!

Just down river from where the trail comes down, say 100 yards down river, will be a small waterfall and pool. at that point the river turns into a solid rock wall gorge as it heads down to the Italian Bar Trail, a slipper but interesting hike down the river. A hard rock mine exists on the right side as you are going down river.

Up river from where the trail comes down to the river, say about 3/4 of a mile on the trail, the river makes a nice curving bend around a solid rock outcropping/hill thingy. Again, the weeds may have taken command of the trail along the canyon floor so you may need to hike the river. I would recommend a solid hiking staff be used when hiking in the river as slipping and falling is not good for a persons bones.

There is a huge amount of country in the NFAR canyon with side canyons galore, a huge amount of mining history every where and if you've not noticed the comments, there are a LOT OF BEARS IN THERE!!!!! I carry a heavy duty revolver with me whenever I go in on the NFAR and have had to use it as a noise maker which it does an excellent job at. Usually the bears will leave and not come back after hearing that thing go off.

If you will be in there for several days I would recommend putting your food up on a steel cable over a high tree limb so the bears can not get at it or chew through the cable, the easily chew through nylon parachute cord and I've a LOT of experience with that. The steel cable has never failed to keep the bears away from my food. If you will be sleeping in a tent, leave it unzipped during the day so the bears can go in to it without needing to tear it open.

Best of luck..........................63bkpkr

 

[Goldwasher]

I know someone whose stash was taken when the bear took down the limb that the cable was tied to.....
Nice in depth description 63

 

[sublimages]

False and misleading is a pretty bold statement. You will have to provide more information to back up that claim sublimages.

Do you know of any mapping application, paid or free, that presents more current mining claims information than Land Matters?

Heavy Pans

Lr2000 and a topo map

 

[sublimages]

Thanks for the tips 63bkpkr

 

[The Gilded Lens]

Or you can take the Beacroft trail. It's shorter, but steeper.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Lr2000 and a topo map

You wrote that:

To say the alternatives aren't as current or cost money when your data is updated twice month from the FREE lr2000 database is a false and misleading statement.

How is a topo map and the LR2000 more current than what Land Matters Mining Claims Maps offer? False and Misleading WTF?

If that's all you've got I think you owe me an apology.

Heavy Pans

 

[okbasspro]

As mentioned before it is your job to do due diligence. Mineral trespass is a serious charge and a felony in some states. LANDMATTERS is hands down the most complete info available in one place. Clay has put together the miners best friend. You can link to county recordings which is where you should start there can be up to 90 days between county and BLM filings. Which in plain English means lr2000 says unclaimed and you go but I have filed my claim with county you are breaking the law and if caught will have consequences to face. Some people are very protective of their legal claims. Play by the rules or don't play.

 

[sublimages]

You wrote that:

How is a topo map and the LR2000 more current than what Land Matters Mining Claims Maps offer? False and Misleading WTF?

If that's all you've got I think you owe me an apology.

Heavy Pans

Your site is updated twice a month from lr2000, therefore going directly to lr2000 is going give you the same or more current data.

I'm not trying to fight with you, i just think it's misleading to tell people you have the most current data available if you only update your data from a freely available source twice a month.

 

[sublimages]

Maybe im doing something wrong here, but i don't see any active claims (unless they are recent and not recorded in lr2000 yet) on the north fork american river between mumford bar and sailor flat.

View attachment 1201275 View attachment 1201276

i ran the same report to check for closed claims as well

View attachment 1201277

 

[Clay Diggins]

Maybe im doing something wrong here, but i don't see any active claims (unless they are recent and not recorded in lr2000 yet) on the north fork american river between mumford bar and sailor flat.

i ran the same report to check for closed claims as well

If you had an accurate current map (like Land Matters) you would know that virtually all of the Mumford Bar trail is in 15N 12E Section 3 and Section 4.

If you had an accurate map (like Land Matters) you would know that most of the trail in 15N 12E Section 4 is on private property (you won't find that on LR2000).

If you had an actual claims map (like Land Matters) you would know that there has been an ACTIVE 160 acre placer claim in 15N 12E Section 3 since 2007.

If you had an actual claims map (like Land Matters) you would know that there has been an ACTIVE 149.5 acre placer claim in 16N 13E Section 34 (Sailors Canyon/Sailors Flat Trail) since 1991.

If you had taken okbasspro's excellent and knowledgeable advice and done your due diligence you would know that the claim that shows as an ACTIVE 149.5 acre placer claim in 16N 13E Section 34 (Sailors Canyon/Sailors Flat Trail) also covers portions of 15N 13E Section 1 (you won't find that on LR2000).

If you had an actual claims map (like Land Matters) you would know that virtually all of the Sailors Flat Trail from the 149.5 acre placer claim to Foresthill Road is claimed.

You are right that there are no current ACTIVE claims in the Wild River Withdrawal on the bed of the American River between Mumford Bar and Sailor Canyon. So if you were to hike the loop from Mumford Bar Trail/American River/Sailor Flat Trail you would only encounter sections with claims or private property through about 40% of the sections you traveled through. If you were to just hike the Mumford Bar trail to the river and back that percentage would go up to 66%.

Is that enough information to make sure you won't be trespassing on someone's claim or private property? Not really but it's a lot better start than the information you got from your quick search on the LR2000.

Land Matters is a free tool for land research. It contains a lot more information than just claims or topo maps or land ownership but it doesn't have all the answers.

Land Matters claims maps do allow you to check a claim's status in real time. With each claim information listing you can do a full LR2000 search on the claim status with a click of your mouse. That's a heck of a lot easier than the LR2000 searches you are doing and it's as up to date as the moment you click the link. Yep real time information from the LR2000 without the nonsense of filling out the many search boxes.

No mapping system can give you current claims information. No internet based system can give you current claims information. But Land Matters most certainly does provide you with the most current or accurate claims maps available at any price.

Heavy Pans