Ugh. ASRA hands and pans clarification.

[RudeBoyPanning]

I know there's a lot about this but what are the exact rules? I've gone to Yankee Jim's a few times now with decent luck. Last time the cleanup was pretty decent. My wife and my friends girlfriend want to come with us but I think trying to hike up YJB will be a little much for them. I was thinking of going to the area where the north fork and middle fork join. Is it truly hands and pans only? Can we bring small spades? I have a 3ft mini shovel too, is that allowed? I was thinking of going north up the north fork as far as we can and do a little prospecting there. What do you think? I just want to be extra cautious bc of the ladies being with us.

If it is really hands and pans is there anywhere with decent acessibility we can go where we can use our small shovels? We'll be driving a fwd Jeep Patriot so we have ground clearance but don't have 4x4.

Thanks guys. We've learned a lot from this site and some members that got in touch with me before.

 

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[KevinInColorado]

You. Are. Awesome. Barry.

 

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[Tahoegold]

You already have to have a claim or have found the mineral on private land to sell it or use it for jewelry you plan to sell.

If you can be a kid with a mask to look at fishes you better be able to use it to look for gold underwater.

I'm very new to prospecting. I respect the law. So, I am curious about this statement. Is this a Federal or State law. I'm in CA and want to prospect, find and sell gold legally. This statement says I'm not allowed?


" Without a comma the single phrase 'sold or used commercially' means 'sold commercially or used commercially '. It does NOT mean you can't sell it as an individual. It means you can't run a business of selling it or using it. Thus say the lawyers "

Now this quote from Kevin in CO... Can someone please clarify? I want to use my Bazooka 24" sniper at a location where I panned and found a concentration of fine -50 gold. (NOT ASRA, I'm studying maps to be careful) I have a downdraft Hog mat in a small sluice too to see which one is best for this spot. Kind of pours water on my gold feaver... I'm not giving up. I need to know how to proceed. Heck, I'll use my Supersluice and take the cons home to process if need be. I've written to my Congressman and to the ASRA Superintendent expresding my concern about this new regulation. (They were going to pour tons of rock and concrete, and build a dam but can't tolerate my little shovel and rock hammer?)
Thank you in advance, Tim

 

[Tahoegold]

Hi Heavy Pans, in the interview the ASRA Superintendent got arround the mineral regulations by saying that any activity which disturbs the soil usually requires a person to fill out paperwork to get permission for the "project" in State Managed areas. He further stated that all along the ASRA was most likely operating out of compliance. My question again, can I snorkel? Can I use an underwater viewer? I realize that just because the rules say one thing in real life it boils down to, will any Ranger have objection and thetefore give me a ticket/confiscate equipment. I am asking those that know rangers or have had discussions with one. I don't want trouble. Thanks, I appreciate that we have this forum!

 

[Tahoegold]

Ok, the weather is bad and I sprained my big toe on the river last week so Im stuck at home for a couple weeks (yeah, bad sprain!). And then I learn about this rule so I'm getting frustrated about it. And, I have questions. My understanding is the ASRA manages but doesn't own the entire Am. River property. BLM and USFS own large portions, yet the ASRA makes policy. The Federal agencies cannot be "ruled" by a State entity on Federal property. So, in theory, a campaign to bring the BLM and USFS to change the rules that the agent (ASRA) has made seems to be an avenue correct? I wrote my Congressman and the park Superintendent complaining about the new rule. Back east miners went to meetings with legislatures and stopped a dredge ban. The State Parks were powerless. So, why put wasted energy into changing the State Parks? They are only managing. They have a boss. I know we live in a difficult State for this kind of change. Yet this rule was reversed once before. This fight will not end but, I want to win each battle. I want to keep reasoning and writting for change to the correct powers to fight this battle. We are actually helping the environment for goodness sake. Breaking open bedrock to extract lead (and a little gold too) should be honored as a welcome by product. Yeah, you all know, but, the public doesn't. Those ruling bodies back east that learned about what we do refused to ban dredging because of our benifits to the environment. But, that wouldn't have happened if there was no proof. The people of California are missing an opportunity​ to have VOLUNTEERS clean up poluted rivers. The miners even brought dredges to the meeting. One Senator asked if he could meet up and learn how to dredge! All because of education. Anyone know someone at PBS that can do something like a series that shows miners working to clean rivers of Mercury and Lead? Also showing them breakin up cemented gravels from the old Hydro mining and restoring the riverbed for fisheries?The public needs to know they are missing an opportunity to have our free services helping this State. Ok, that's my 50 cents. Man am I in need of some outdoor fun! LOL

 

[Tahoegold]

None of those commas really matters Kevin because the ASRA Management contract doesn't give the State the right to regulate minerals.

From that signed agreement:



Simply put it's clear throughout the Management agreement that the State in no way controls the mineral estate within those Federal Public Lands that make up the ASRA management area. Read the whole MPA and you will see that all of the mineral and resource rights are the same as if the ASRA didn't exist. The Feds can't make a management contract that allows a State to limit your rights to the public lands. The ASRA only administers the recreational functions on those lands. Rockhounding is a recreational function - prospecting is not a recreational function. There is no right to explore for pretty rocks in the Mining laws but there is a granted right to prospect for valuable mineral deposits.

I'm sure the State would rather have prospectors nitpicking over the details of the meaning of hands or pans but when it comes right down to it the State has no right to regulate or control mineral exploration in any way.

Heavy Pans

Great info. So, I found the Superintendent's email and sent this to him and a copy to Congressman McClintock. I'm not an attorney, so I don't know if what I am writing makes a difference. However, I felt if I am a citizen, I can at least add my voice to this battle!

Hello to Mike Howard, Auburn Sector Superintendent,
*** I read an article that interviewed the ASRA Superintendent. In this article, it refered to the new Hands and Pans only rule. When asked why this rule was necessary, the Supervisor said where there is no Federal rule that State law would apply. For an example he gave a situation in which disturbing the soil had to have a permit. That anyone wanting to dig any soil needed permission. The underlying point was he said there was no Federal law governing this situation. I looked up and found that there seems to be a rule that applies. Can you explain why the Hands and Pans rule should continue based on this Federal law existing to govern? Please refer to (1) (i) (ii) which give exception to notice of intent and further, give parameters for prospecting using tools and equipment. I have forwarded a copy of this letter to Congressman McClintock for review.
Thank you, Timothy XXX, El Dorado County Resident and part time prospector.

* Code of Federal Regulations§228.4 Plan of operations—notice of intent—requirements.

*** (a) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(1) of this section, a notice of intent to operate is required from any person proposing to conduct operations which might cause significant disturbance of surface resources. Such notice of intent to operate shall be submitted to the District Ranger having jurisdiction over the area in which the operations will be conducted. Each notice of intent to operate shall provide information sufficient to identify the area involved, the nature of the proposed operations, the route of access to the area of operations, and the method of transport.
*** (1) A notice of intent to operate is not required for:
*** (i) Operations which will be limited to the use of vehicles on existing public roads or roads used and maintained for National Forest System purposes;
*** (ii) Prospecting and sampling which will not cause significant surface resource disturbance and will not involve removal of more than a reasonable amount of mineral deposit for analysis and study which generally might include searching for and occasionally removing small mineral samples or specimens, gold panning, metal detecting, non-motorized hand sluicing, using battery operated dry washers, and collecting of mineral specimens using hand tools;