patented mining claim question

[605dano]

I have a patented hard rock claim that was filed on the same day as patented placer claim. The original hard rock claim overlapped part of the original placer claim , but when it came to issuing the deeds the placer claim took precedent because it was filed first. My question is who owns the subsurface mineral rights on the placer claim even though the placer claim has the deed?

 

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[IMAUDIGGER]

It does not matter what is written in your current deed or your neighbor's current deed.
What matters is the chain of title. You have to go back to the original patent (which is available on-line at the BLM web site), and carefully read each following deed transfer specific to mineral rights and sub-surface rights.
This is something that a title company typically does. However it is possible to do it yourself if you are familiar with the courthouse records system.

Obviously if you were to attempt to act on some sort of perceived mineral right, you would want to be doing so on the advice of a good attorney which specializes in these matters.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

It does not matter what is written in your current deed or your neighbor's current deed. What matters is the chain of title. You have to go back to the original patent (which is available on-line at the BLM web site), and carefully read each following deed transfer specific to mineral rights and sub-surface rights.

You are right that mineral rights were defined in the patent grant.

Patent rights are not transferred by deed. Patents can only be transferred by Succession or Assignment as each patent clearly states. Deeds are for real estate not patents.

You are incorrect about the deed. If it's not in your deed you didn't buy it. Mineral rights (subsurface rights) can be, and usually are, sold separately from the surface rights. If your deed doesn't specify that you own the mineral rights - you don't own the mineral rights no matter what rights the original patent granted. First place to check is your deed.

If you own and physically possess the original patent and have full certified succession and assignments for every day since the patent was granted then the patent serves as your fee title and you own any rights in the land that weren't already sold. I have seen several original patents in the hands of their rightful assignee's but they are truly a rare bird these days.

Heavy Pans

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

You are right that mineral rights were defined in the patent grant.

Patent rights are not transferred by deed. Patents can only be transferred by Succession or Assignment as each patent clearly states. Deeds are for real estate not patents.

You are incorrect about the deed. If it's not in your deed you didn't buy it. Mineral rights (subsurface rights) can be, and usually are, sold separately from the surface rights. If your deed doesn't specify that you own the mineral rights - you don't own the mineral rights no matter what rights the original patent granted. First place to check is your deed.

If you own and physically possess the original patent and have full certified succession and assignments for every day since the patent was granted then the patent serves as your fee title and you own any rights in the land that weren't already sold. I have seen several original patents in the hands of their rightful assignee's but they are truly a rare bird these days.

Heavy Pans

Yes my point is that the mineral rights could have been excepted out somewhere along the line (between patent and current deed)...even if your current deed specifically mentions mineral rights - it may not mean anything. The grantor can't sell something he doesn't own. The exception language is notorious for being added or left off the tail end of a deed with no apparent rhyme or reason. Thus the importance of understanding the complete chain of title as it relates to the mineral estate.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Yes my point is that the mineral rights could have been excepted out somewhere along the line (between patent and current deed)...even if your current deed specifically mentions mineral rights - it may not mean anything. The grantor can't sell something he doesn't own. The exception language is notorious for being added or left off the tail end of a deed with no apparent rhyme or reason. Thus the importance of understanding the complete chain of title as it relates to the mineral estate.

I see your point now.

If something was transferred in your deed that didn't belong to the seller your Title insurance has to pay you the difference in value. That's why the Title company researches the title history and issues a preliminary report and commitment with your warranty deed or insurance. Title companies do mess up but they have to pay you cash when they make that kind of mistake.

Heavy Pans

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I see your point now.

If something was transferred in your deed that didn't belong to the seller your Title insurance has to pay you the difference in value. That's why the Title company researches the title history and issues a preliminary report and commitment with your warranty deed or insurance. Title companies do mess up but they have to pay you cash when they make that kind of mistake.

Heavy Pans

Well mostly...there is a lot of small print that makes it easy for them to get out of paying you for their mistakes.
I'm not sure it is exactly black and white - it may also rely on court case doctrine as well.

 

[russau]

605dano APPEARENTLY this person who wants access to your claim has NO CHARACTOR because if he did have some ,he wouldn't of asked about dredgeing your claim in Cal. For me , I wouldn't want him around and now you have to keep thinking ,"has he snuck back onto my claim with a dredge"? Id keep all info on him and his vehical and plate number handy and pass it around to other claim / home owners in the area to keep a eye out for him! Character is what you do when NOBODY is looking!

 

[okbasspro]

I have the original patent signed by President John Tyler in 1842 for my land and yes I have the minerals. While no AU to speak of lots of Black Gold here.

 

[kcm]

I have the original patent signed by President John Tyler in 1842 for my land and yes I have the minerals. While no AU to speak of lots of Black Gold here.

Yeah, but who ever heard of a TV series called Chickasha??

 

[Goldwasher]

605dano APPEARENTLY this person who wants access to your claim has NO CHARACTOR because if he did have some ,he wouldn't of asked about dredgeing your claim in Cal. For me , I wouldn't want him around and now you have to keep thinking ,"has he snuck back onto my claim with a dredge"? Id keep all info on him and his vehical and plate number handy and pass it around to other claim / home owners in the area to keep a eye out for him! Character is what you do when NOBODY is looking!

did we miss something?... Why didn'y you say thre person who wants to know is trying to scam "you"

 

[russau]

That very well might be the bottom line! BUT the point I was tring to make is , the guy knows it is against the Cal. law to dredge BUT yet he still asked about dredgeing on this mans claim , and thusly bring him into a possible citation and confiscation of his equipment as well ! I ( personally) would avoid that kind of person!