Claim on BLM land, looking for legal precedence for privacy

[Strebs]

Hello everyone, just got out of a meeting with the county/BLM agencies for the upcoming season on our mining claim. My claim runs through a public trail which our camp is off of maybe 10-20 feet through some brush. Well last year we had people coming through our camp and hanging out in there, looking through our stuff (not in our tents but still). Anyways, was wondering even though I'm on public lands there must be some law stating some privacy? Has anyone ever encountered this? My suggestion was to put up a "private no trespassing" but this was shot down since its public land. Last year someone was held at gunpoint about 10 miles from us. Rather not "have to" use the 357 mag so looking for some sort of Revised Statue, mining law, or legal document that could help my cause when presenting it to the BLM again. Another suggestion was to move the camp to a remote location, We are within some steep canyon walls and slim pickings.
Thanks everyone,
Strebs

 

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[mikep691]

this sounds like an opportunity to use the old 6 pack of beer covered in Poison oak technique

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DO NOT put this in your own ice chest....

 

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[4x4x4]

....an acquaintance rings his claim in staked up ropes/do not disturb signs.
He had visitors each night and believed they were from a neighboring camp.
I had with me water tracing powder (to follow migration) in crimson red and florescent green(the powder WILL stain your hands in dry form) and we left "bait out in the form of a used up cross bow. A morning walk saw ALL their hands stained. All was returned with a threat to call Johnny Law and the sheriff was summoned anyway. Lesson learned as they were "caught red handed" .

 

[Bejay]

Well I will offer what we do...although our claim/camp is not on an active trailhead anymore....the trail got abandoned by the USFS maint crew.
We have a large dog (on a chain/run) that puts out a very loud/mean barking tirade. We have a sign that says smile: you are on camera.....and on occasion when someone camps nearby we like to do a little "SAFE" target practice in camp. It has always deterred those who want to poke around when we are out working....as game cams are very nice to have strategically placed. We also have numerous professionally looking claim signs that show the claim is "ACTIVE". Coming into ones camp uninvited is a NO No where we come from.

Bejay

 

[Bonaro]

YOu cant keep people off the claim but you can restrict them from the actual mining site for safety reasons. I would post keep out signs.

 

[Shunkaha]

DANGER
Mining Area
Keep Out

Have a picture of a stick figure falling down a mine shaft. That should do it.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

If you have ever camped in the national forest/wilderness before, you would know that camp privacy relies on the honor system, and that not everybody is honorable.
Camping right along a trail is not exactly the easiest way to avoid having strangers in your camp!?

EDIT: Hope that didn't sound condescending because it wasn't intended that way.

Now I will say that some miners have an unreasonable expectation of being able to utilize public land as their own....one camp I know of - they set their camp up in the spring and leave it up all summer. Clothes are hanging on the clothes line, stuff on a picnic table (even though they have not been there for weeks)...they expect to basically reserve the flat for themselves so they can come and camp any time they want.

I used to stop at this flat and eat lunch or take a break driving, maybe do some metal detecting. After several years of seeing the spot "reserved" all summer - I'm half tempted to swing in and make myself at home. After all, there are some nice tables and chairs..some shade tarps. It would be a nice place to take a nap. Maybe jump in the river, then hang up my towels to dry.


Per the ranchers - I'm not aware of a single instance around my area where they have ran anybody off public lands. That would be absurd.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

on occasion when someone camps nearby we like to do a little "SAFE" target practice in camp. It has always deterred those who want to poke around when we are out working

Nothing more annoying than people that use guns to be territorial on public land. Especially at trail-heads, trails, lakes, wild and scenic rivers, ect. ect. where people may have a legitimate reason to be close by. Usually when someone pulls a stunt like that, I walk right up to them (because they are not expecting that) and let them know where I will be, just so they can be careful not to sling lead my way. Usually the attitude quickly changes and we find out we have common acquaintances. Usually they calm right down after they find out I'm just parking my truck to take a hike - or heading down to the river to take a quick swim.

Valuables should be placed in a heavy locked container - out of sight/out of mind...things that are left out, should be cheap enough to be lost without any major grief.

 

[mendoAu]

YOu cant keep people off the claim but you can restrict them from the actual mining site for safety reasons. I would post keep out signs.

Dang... seems that some folks didn't read well. ON A BLM (not forest etc., etc.) mining claim you have qualified yourself to preserve in a safe manner your mining operation. That does not mean you can put up stupid NO TRESS., signs on block off access to portions of the claim not under production. If you have a POO then it has been established what areas are under active production and have the paperwork handy to show to the local sheriff/deputy. So If need be get a roll of yellow caution tape and set your mining bounderies You have every right for the publics safety to withdraw this area from access. Be nice, be clever, be firm and point out an alternate path to where they intend to go.
Just as a side note...if a claim owner has a weapon why would anybody want to confront him??/ ye gods guy's just back up and go on your way.

 

[TerryC]

Do they still give out patented claims? A patent claim gives you, and only you, the right to allow public access. Many patented claims on National Forest sites. I think I read Feds don't give them out anymore. Anyone? Anyone can "smell the roses" on your place, unless they are collecting rose quartz or any other rock or mineral of value. TTC

 

[Assembler]

Claims and Patents.

Hello
TerryC asked:

Do they still give out patented claims? A patent claim gives you, and only you, the right to allow public access. Many patented claims on National Forest sites. I think I read Feds don't give them out anymore. Anyone?

Good questions and thanks for asking. One can do some research online as well as look up the 'Last patented claims' near you. I think you will find out that most if not all of the funding has dried up around 1998-9 with most having a date in the 1970's to 1980's at the latest.
A better question to research is can one pay to have the

"Subject of plat making" "with each sheet bearing the inscription, Survey No.______, Sheet No.______. The last sheet will carry the certificate of approval."

The "Agent or Officer" may also need to be payed?
Is the time and cost worth it that will have to be up to you. Most people just now do a "Land lease" without moving any further on the "Claim". One can even read about some of this in older documents.

In Arizona a number of years ago (think it was 2004 - 5?) a engineering firm was paid to do one. This was at a cost and investment of research documents. They reported digging up typed up documents out of the 1980's in order to get a "Order number from the Land Office" to complete the papers. One of the conditions was the values had to be proven to the "Land Office' before a "Order number' was issued.

 

[dave wiseman]

I believe there is a moratorium on patenting a mining claim.A patented claim is private property....as far as people dealing with BLM land it's an absurd joke in much of the California motherlode gold country.Peoplewho have private property in alot of cases think because their property abuts BLM ground that they own it.In fact many real estate ads will semi enforce this thought by proclaiming that the property they have listed for sale backs up to BLM ground.

 

[Assembler]

Moratorium on patenting a mining claim?

Hello
Dave Wiseman pointed out:

I believe there is a moratorium on patenting a mining claim.A patented claim is private property....as far as people dealing with BLM land it's an absurd joke in much of the California motherlode gold country.Peoplewho have private property in alot of cases think because their property abuts BLM ground that they own it.In fact many real estate ads will semi enforce this thought by perclaiming that the property they have listed for sale backs up to BLM ground.

This one was thinking the same that there was a moratorium until this one went to the engineering firm own web page and read a little about the "Order number" they where payed to do. What is happening is all the funding has 'Dried up' and it all has to be funded from scratch by someone. This includes paying for the "Agents / Officers" time. The "Land Office" is still there just costs. One has to use a "Mineral Surveyor" or it will not happen.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Do they still give out patented claims? A patent claim gives you, and only you, the right to allow public access. Many patented claims on National Forest sites. I think I read Feds don't give them out anymore. Anyone? Anyone can "smell the roses" on your place, unless they are collecting rose quartz or any other rock or mineral of value. TTC

New patent processing was defunded by Congress in November 1993. Patents were not abolished but the BLM is not allowed to spend money processing new mineral patent applications until the funding is released by Congress.

Congress votes to continue to hold back processing funding every two years. If you would like to see mineral patents become possible again you need to let your Congresscritters know your feelings.

In the meantime all the patent applications that were submitted before November 1993 have either been processed or they are still in the process of being awarded. There are new mineral patents awarded each year. Look up the Galice Oregon mining claim GARDEN SPOT ORMC86146 and you can see how the BLM can drag their feet for more than 25 years but in the end they still have to issue the patent.

Once patented a mining claim becomes the exclusive private property of the patent owner.

Heavy Pans

 

[Assembler]

Defunded by Congress.

Clay Diggins pointed out:

New patent processing was defunded by Congress in November 1993. Patents were not abolished but the BLM is not allowed to spend money processing new mineral patent applications until the funding is released by Congress.

Yes. All moneys ran out around 1998-9 and no new funding was issued. The "Land Office" did not go away however. Costs are the big factor.
Congress knows little about the process unless they read for them self's the details in a "Manual of Surveying instructions" or has a 'Staff member or counsel ' go research at the "United States Government Printing Office". Once the "Order number is issued from the Land Office" the clock is running for the "Survey and Plats" to be up to date or "Officers" can be removed with prison time.
One can not do this on there own.

 

[Assembler]

Costs

Hello
The costs may not be to high if the values are very good. Just looking for some examples out there with the paper work could go a long ways.

 

[TerryC]

New patent processing was defunded by Congress in November 1993. Patents were not abolished but the BLM is not allowed to spend money processing new mineral patent applications until the funding is released by Congress.

Congress votes to continue to hold back processing funding every two years. If you would like to see mineral patents become possible again you need to let your Congresscritters know your feelings.

In the meantime all the patent applications that were submitted before November 1993 have either been processed or they are still in the process of being awarded. There are new mineral patents awarded each year. Look up the Galice Oregon mining claim GARDEN SPOT ORMC86146 and you can see how the BLM can drag their feet for more than 25 years but in the end they still have to issue the patent.

Once patented a mining claim becomes the exclusive private property of the patent owner.

Heavy Pans

Clay... I will order three "prints" from Bunk in about a week. Tnx for your help. TTC