Using roads and ‘Skid roads’ past locked gates for prospecting?

[Assembler]

Hello
What are your experiences talking to Boise Cascade, Warehouser, Potlach etc about using roads and ‘Skid roads’ past locked gates? Some times these corporations will have the keys to the locked gates.
Experiences good or bad. Any tips out there?
Thank you.

 

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[galenrog]

Most timber owners that I have had conversations with, including the three you mentioned, have a single word default response: NO!

There are many reasons for this. All make sense from the view of the property owner.

There are always exceptions. Simply ask at the local office for the land owner. If they say yes, obey the rules. If they say no, move on. The consequences of criminal trespass are not worth the trouble.

That being said, I do have keys to two Weyerhaeuser gates that allow me to do a bit of rockhounding on a particular section. The list of rules fill a small binder. Plus the keys cost a few hundred $ each to rent every year.

 

[Assembler]

Prospecting use of the keys?

Most timber owners that I have had conversations with, including the three you mentioned, have a single word default response: NO!

There are many reasons for this. All make sense from the view of the property owner.

There are always exceptions. Simply ask at the local office for the land owner. If they say yes, obey the rules. If they say no, move on. The consequences of criminal trespass are not worth the trouble.

That being said, I do have keys to two Weyerhaeuser gates that allow me to do a bit of rockhounding on a particular section. The list of rules fill a small binder. Plus the keys cost a few hundred $ each to rent every year.

Thank you for the tips there galenrog. Do you have the 'Use of the keys' for say a small group of rockhounding people only if every one follows the rules? Do you know of any prospectors that fit into the same use of the keys for some money as long as the rules are followed? Does taking pictures of the area of rockhounding / prospecting help?
Thank you.

 

[galenrog]

Rules of private property owners can vary greatly. You will have to deal with each property owner on an individual basis. What works between Weyerhaeuser and myself may not work for you. I received permission, due in part, to a long term friendship with a retired BLM employee who was friends with a Weyerhaeuser land manager.

My permission can be revoked at any time, with no notice, and with no reason required.

Time for more coffee.

 

[Assembler]

Rules of private property owners can vary greatly. You will have to deal with each property owner on an individual basis. What works between Weyerhaeuser and myself may not work for you. I received permission, due in part, to a long term friendship with a retired BLM employee who was friends with a Weyerhaeuser land manager.

My permission can be revoked at any time, with no notice, and with no reason required.

Time for more coffee.

Yes this is a very limited thing. Just wondering if you know of anyone who is has permission to go past the gate during tree cutting or thinning time?

 

[galenrog]

It is ALWAYS harvest or land management time. Yes, I wrote ALWAYS. Protecting assets is a never ending task for any landowner. Timber and ranch owners are no different. When not actively harvesting an area, planting, thinning, and other active management tasks need to be done. While some timber operators open road systems for hunting a few weeks a year, that number grows a bit smaller every year. Most reasons for this decline involve protection of assets, and limitation of liability.

 

[Bejay]

Not many people know of this:

Many forest roads have a multitude of owners and or; pass through a multitude of private timber lands. If a private timber company has a gated road but somewhere back behind the gate lies a portion of USFS or BLM public taxpayer funded road; the private timber company can not withhold access to that public land/road. They are allowed to gate it, but must allow access to the public land. There lies your ability to get past a private gate. You may find that the USFS or BLM has a key allowing them access but they can not deny the public access unless they deem it a safety hazard because of private property activities taking place that can cause harm...(logging as an example). BUT one can address the concern by formulating an orchestrated plan involving the gov agency and the private landowner.

It is always fun to throw such issues on the table. Always ask where they deem it possible to deny access to public funded roads/lands.

Bejay

 

[Hoser John]

Hense lies the problem...whether they "deem" it hazardous as their discretion is extremely variable. Play nice and you just might be amazed at what you end up getting to do. A nice civil discussion goes a long ways.....sometimes-John

 

[Assembler]

Hense lies the problem...whether they "deem" it hazardous as their discretion is extremely variable. Play nice and you just might be amazed at what you end up getting to do. A nice civil discussion goes a long ways.....sometimes-John

Wow thank you everyone for your input.
The "Deem it hazardous" could be taken care of say in the months of November to February in Oregon due to the rains. Making a rut in the road could be a issue as well as not maintaining the land by leaving trash for example during say hunting season time.

 

[Assembler]

Not many people know of this:

Many forest roads have a multitude of owners and or; pass through a multitude of private timber lands. If a private timber company has a gated road but somewhere back behind the gate lies a portion of USFS or BLM public taxpayer funded road; the private timber company can not withhold access to that public land/road. They are allowed to gate it, but must allow access to the public land. There lies your ability to get past a private gate. You may find that the USFS or BLM has a key allowing them access but they can not deny the public access unless they deem it a safety hazard because of private property activities taking place that can cause harm...(logging as an example). BUT one can address the concern by formulating an orchestrated plan involving the gov agency and the private landowner.

It is always fun to throw such issues on the table. Always ask where they deem it possible to deny access to public funded roads/lands.

Bejay

Maybe the private timber land firms just look at the maps to see what is "Surveyed lands" and makes a decision from this to keep gates looked up? Open "Mineral entry" could also play a roll in regards to "Claims access" goes? Prospecting just may be closed in the private timber land firms policy? It could be 'Good PR for the private timber land firms paper work' if some access is granted?
Just some questions that come to mind.
The use the the 'Public funded road' is not a form of 'Trespass' in traveling to a patch of USFS or BLM land.

 

[Assembler]

It is ALWAYS harvest or land management time. Yes, I wrote ALWAYS. Protecting assets is a never ending task for any landowner. Timber and ranch owners are no different. When not actively harvesting an area, planting, thinning, and other active management tasks need to be done. While some timber operators open road systems for hunting a few weeks a year, that number grows a bit smaller every year. Most reasons for this decline involve protection of assets, and limitation of liability.

Maybe prospecting during hunting season of November to December is a down time if there is one for the timber landowner?
Hard to start a timber fire in poring down rain.

 

[Assembler]

Hello
Good thing most gates do not have the following 'Trespass sign'............

 

[Assembler]

Hello
Is it a good idea to not only ask if one can have a 'Key access' but also ask if the gated area also is open for a few weeks during hunting season? Maybe one will get a no answer on use of keys but a yes answer on a few weeks during hunting season?
Wonder if it does not hurt to ask about a 'Key access' only during the rainy months? Maybe there is a check list of 'Rules' to go over a bit out there?

There is often USFS or BLM lands and some times State forests around private timber lands. Is the only time to prospect this lands outside of fire season?
Thank you.

 

[Assembler]

Hello
Wonder if any associations or clubs have asked and payed for keys to any gates?

 

[et1955]

Hello
Wonder if any associations or clubs have asked and payed for keys to any gates?

Yes they do, up here in Washington the club WPMA has claims beyond a gate that is controlled by many jurisdictions and any member of the club can get the key, access must be allowed to all claim owners by law especially after a few lawsuits the state lost. I went in threw that gate today but not by a key but by electric bike, electric bikes are not classified as motor vehicles in my state if there top speed is 20mph. Unless you have a key no motorize vehicle is permitted into the area. Had Fun and found gold.

 

[Assembler]

Yes they do, up here in Washington the club WPMA has claims beyond a gate that is controlled by many jurisdictions and any member of the club can get the key, access must be allowed to all claim owners by law especially after a few lawsuits the state lost. I went in threw that gate today but not by a key but by electric bike, electric bikes are not classified as motor vehicles in my state if there top speed is 20mph. Unless you have a key no motorize vehicle is permitted into the area. Had Fun and found gold.

Great glad to hear this is going on out there. Is it safe to assume that the club pays to have the key access? If so this shows that some one 'Is on the ball' at that club. Care to share if everyone has to obey fire rules during fire season? Maybe some other rules as well? Any tips or ideas?
Thank you for the input et1955.

 

[et1955]

The club has a right to access because they own claims in the gated area so the key's are free but members must pay a deposit to obtain the key. We all are supposed to obey the fire rules, simple as that. As for other rules, very simple respect the land and cherish it's beauty and diversity.

 

[Assembler]

The club has a right to access because they own claims in the gated area so the key's are free but members must pay a deposit to obtain the key. We all are supposed to obey the fire rules, simple as that. As for other rules, very simple respect the land and cherish it's beauty and diversity.

Straight forward like it should be. Thanks for filling in the details.

 

[bedrock bubba]

It is ALWAYS harvest or land management time. Yes, I wrote ALWAYS. Protecting assets is a never ending task for any landowner. Timber and ranch owners are no different. When not actively harvesting an area, planting, thinning, and other active management tasks need to be done. While some timber operators open road systems for hunting a few weeks a year, that number grows a bit smaller every year. Most reasons for this decline involve protection of assets, and limitation of liability.

Behind every closed gate is a LAWYER!

 

[Assembler]

Behind every closed gate is a LAWYER!

Lawyer inspired sign: .........LOL