Help with staking mining claim

[ELKAHOLIC]

I have a spot I would like to stake a mining claim on. I'm really confused on how you can set the boundaries of the claim. I know the township and section of the area but how do I find the quarter sections? Does the claim have to follow the lines of the quarter sections? My nephew and I were want to claim together so we can claim 40 acres. I live in Montana if it matters.

Any help would be great as I'm really stressing over how you figure your claim boundaries and describe them on paper.

Thanks

 

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[vpnavy]

I noticed this was your very first post ELKAHOLIC - so, Welcome Aboard! You didn't list your state (or country) in your profile. So, you might consider jumping over to Sub-Forums: Select Your Area.... and selecting location information (i.e., clubs, hunts, finds, legends, maps, etc.) directly related to your state (or country).

 

[vpnavy]

While you are waiting - I searched

and found a few threads that might help...

Finding the boundaries of a claim (Sep 27, 2016, 01:53 AM)


Claim Boundaries (Feb 07, 2011, 11:26 PM)​

 

[Rail Dawg]

Staking a claim is a worthwhile endeavor!

It's not easy and will require getting into the county records for maps and/or BLM maps that have been filed.

It's too bad BLM's LR2000 doesn't give the entire claim location down to the 1/4 1/4 and which side of that rectangle.

It's worth the effort to pursue this learning.

Prospecting is half digging half working your knowledge of the land and regulations lol!

 

[winners58]

placer or lode? is it open to location? BLM or FS? 40 acres is a quarter quarter section.
see the illustration on page 9;
https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/PublicRoom_Mining_Claims_Brochure-2016.pdf

found this; starts with posting a location notice
82-2-101. Manner of locating claim. Montana

you can research the area here;
once you have a map open check the PLSS and second division box's then zoom to your area of interest.
Land Matters - Mining Claims Maps

 

[ELKAHOLIC]

It would be a placer claim. I have checked with BLM and county recorder office and it's open for claiming. I'm just having a tough time figuring out the boundaries. Do you guys draw it out on a map first then go to the field and put post in?

 

[KevinInColorado]

It would be a placer claim. I have checked with BLM and county recorder office and it's open for claiming. I'm just having a tough time figuring out the boundaries. Do you guys draw it out on a map first then go to the field and put post in?

Yes. In the end, the posts define the claim. I use the maps in mylandmatters.org to identify the corners, get the gps coords from the website, then go place the corners in the field. The gps is just a tool to decide where to put your corners. The monuments themselves are the actual "law" of where your corners are...not some gps numbers.

Key fact: don't put the gps coords on your claim filing, use the townships, section and range instead as that is what's legal!

 

[Rail Dawg]

It would be a placer claim. I have checked with BLM and county recorder office and it's open for claiming. I'm just having a tough time figuring out the boundaries. Do you guys draw it out on a map first then go to the field and put post in?

I use Earth Point which plots the PLSS on Google Earth.

Then measure your claim out on it finding the NW corner.

Click on that corner get Lat/Long and use any GPS to navigate right to it.

That's where your locator stake and Notice of Location goes.

 

[ELKAHOLIC]

I thought you're paperwork went on you're point of discovery post? Does you're point of discovery post have to be in center of the claim? Also, after I stake the claim and file the paperwork can I pan or sluice on the claim or do I have to wait until I get the official papers from BLM?

Thanks

 

[ELKAHOLIC]

Also what kind of post do you guys use? I was going to use 4x4 treated post. Even though there actually 3 1/2" will they still work? The link above for the Montana law says at least 4 inches square.

 

[KevinInColorado]

I thought you're paperwork went on you're point of discovery post? Does you're point of discovery post have to be in center of the claim? Also, after I stake the claim and file the paperwork can I pan or sluice on the claim or do I have to wait until I get the official papers from BLM?

Thanks

Yes the paper goes on the discovery post. You theoretically put the discovery post goes near where you first found gold but put it wherever you think makes sense.

Here in CO, a lot of people are now putting the signs on trees (up high so they don't get messed with). Wood posts get stolen for firewood too often.

Yes, of course you can pan and sluice immediately...just like you could before you filed!

 

[Goldwasher]

ok here is how it actually is supposed to happen.

First if you already know the are is open to claim. You can run a report using BLM or check with landmatters to see what if any claims are filed in the area if any. If you find numbers and names go to the county and check the files. They have maps in them showing where the claim is.

Keeping in mind that a claim could have been located within the last ninety days on the ground and not be filed and recorded yet.

If it is open or there is some open ground and you know the other claim boundaries, you can go put boots on the ground. Before you move one speck of dirt look for recent staking or work. If you see any signs or a pile of rocks, post, or pvc pipe check it for the location paperwork.

The location/discovery monument is there to signify that you made a discovery of a valuable mineral and intend to stake a claim to develop the deposit further. You do all that on the ground at the spot. Then you go to the county and record and take copies to blm to file and pay your first year maintenance and new claim fees.

The Discovery monument is supposed to be pretty much where you made the discovery. Not in the center of the claim. Both of ours are on the creek in the area where the first gold was discovered. If they were in the center of the claims no one would come across them.

When in a surveyed area you locate the claim boundaries using the PLSS description I.E "the southern half of the sw corner of the sw 1/4 of ..sec...tshp...range"... or if it is a Gov lot you use the lot name and the rest is the same.

20 acres is a rectangle 40 is a square.

You can make a copy of a map and shade in the area using survey lines and a ruler. or you can use graph paper make it to scale and shade in the area and label it with the PLSS description. Metes and bounds you will have to spend a little time making your map.

The map is for reference. The plotted description is accurate.

If at all possible find a survey that has been done in more recent times that contacts the public land you are on. There will be metal posts in the ground you can measure from for accuracy. I found one for the neighboring HOA.development. All my mapping is based on that. If you use gps and compare it to online mapping sources it is off quite a bit. So, be cautious using lines that are plotted over arial photos and topo maps.

Your posts in the ground can legally define your claim, though if a previous survey makes your posts inaccurate they don't reset that previous survey and your corners can be "off".

If the land is open you can pan and sluice the minute you are there. If you stake a claim and haven't panned it yet you don't really have a valid claim..unless you beeped out some gold with a detector.

Your paperwork goes in the discovery monument. I update it every fall so that highgraders can't use it as an excuse to say "oh I thought it was an old claim"

Highgraders have a long list of ways to blame claim owners for THEIR inability to not steal from people who like to secure their mineral deposits legally. Try to throw a wrench in their works whenever you can.

None of this is legal advice and based on California procedure so please double check everything with Montana

I'm not in Montana. I don't know how much is surveyed and how much isn't. You might have to use metes and bounds. Montana BLM may also have different corner and boundary regulations you should look into. You will have to contact BLM to be sure.
Enough to matter on the ground.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Sorry you are finding this so difficult ELKAHOLIC. The procedure is pretty straightforward and clearly explained in the law but the first around can be a little confusing. The details and time limits of how to properly locate a claim vary by state. I see you are in Montana so your time frame for completing your location is reduced to 60 days rather than the 90 days in most states.

Here are the location laws for Montana:

82-2-101. Manner of locating claim. A person who discovers upon the public domain of the United States, within the state of Montana, a vein, lode, or ledge of rock in place bearing gold, silver, cinnabar, lead, tin, copper, or other valuable deposits or a placer deposit of gold or other deposit of minerals having a commercial value that is subject to entry and patent under the mining laws of the United States may, if qualified by the laws of the United States, locate a mining claim upon the vein, lode, ledge, or deposit in the following manner:
(1) The person shall post conspicuously at the point of discovery a written or printed notice of location containing the name of the claim, the name of the locator or locators, if there is more than one, the date of the location, which must be the date of posting the notice, and the approximate dimensions of the area of the claim intended to be appropriated.
(2) Within 30 days after posting the notice of location, the person shall distinctly mark the location on the ground so that its boundaries can be readily traced. It is prima facie evidence that the location is properly marked if the boundaries are defined by a monument at each corner or angle of the claim, consisting of any one of the following kinds:
(a) a tree at least 8 inches in diameter and blazed on four sides;
(b) a post at least 4 inches square by 4 feet 6 inches in length, set 1 foot in the ground, unless solid rock should occur at a less depth, in which case the post should be set upon the rock and surrounded in all cases by a mound of earth or stone at least 4 feet in diameter by 2 feet in height. A squared stump of the requisite size, surrounded by a mound, must be considered the equivalent of a post and mound.
(c) a stone at least 6 inches square by 18 inches in length, set two-thirds of its length in the ground, with a mound of earth or stone alongside at least 4 feet in diameter by 2 feet in height; or
(d) a boulder at least 3 feet above the natural surface of the ground on the upper side. When other monuments or monuments of lesser dimensions than those described in subsections (2)(a) through (2)(c) are used, it is a question for the jury or for the court where the action is tried without a jury as to whether the location has been marked upon the ground so that its boundaries can be readily traced. Whatever monument is used, it must be marked with the name of the claim and the designation of the corner, either by number or cardinal point.
(3) Within 60 days after posting notice, the locator shall comply with the United States mining laws.

82-2-102. Record of certificate of location. (1) Within 60 days after posting the notice of location, the locator shall record the location in the office of the county clerk of the county in which the mining claim is situated. The record must consist of a certificate of location for each claim containing:
(a) the name of the lode or claim and whether located as a lode or placer claim;
(b) the name of the locator or locators, if there is more than one, together with the post-office address of the locator or locators;
(c) the date of location and the description of the claim, with reference to some natural object or permanent monument, that will identify the claim and the section, township, and range in which the claim is situated by projected survey lines if located in unsurveyed country; and
(d) the directions and distances from the discovery point that describe the claim.
(2) The certificate of location must be verified before an officer authorized to administer oaths by the locator or one of the locators, if there is more than one, or by an authorized agent. In the case of a corporation, the verification may be made by an officer of the corporation or by an authorized agent. When the verification is made by an agent, the fact of the agency must be stated in the affidavit. A verified certificate of location or a certified copy of the certificate is prima facie evidence of all facts properly recited in the certificate. Failure of the locator or locators to record a certificate of location as required in this section creates a prima facie presumption of intent to abandon. However, recordation after the 60-day period but before the ground is located by another renews the location and saves the rights of the original locator. Nothing contained in 82-2-112 affects the prima facie presumption created by this section.

82-2-115. Filing of false mining claims. A person who offers a location certificate for a placer mining claim or lode claim or affidavit of assessment work to be filed in an office of a county clerk of this state on the person's own behalf or for any other person or a person who procures others to do so, knowing that the claim, certificate, or affidavit was not preceded by a proper location of the claim physically upon the ground by the establishment of a proper notice of claim and the designation of the surface boundaries of the claim by substantial posts or monuments as required by the laws of the state, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years, by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both.

After you do all that you need to send a copy of your location notice to the BLM State office along with the fees for that filing. The County Recording is your required public notice of the mining claim but the BLM is entitled to an annual informational notice since 1980. The BLM does not approve claims but they do want fees for locating one and annually thereafter.

Hope that helps!

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

If at all possible find a survey that has been done in more recent times that contacts the public land you are on. There will be metal posts in the ground you can measure from for accuracy. I found one for the neighboring HOA.development. All my mapping is based on that. If you use gps and compare it to online mapping sources it is off quite a bit. So, be cautious using lines that are plotted over arial photos and topo maps.

This ^^^^^ +1

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

Sorry you are finding this so difficult ELKAHOLIC. The procedure is pretty straightforward and clearly explained in the law but the first around can be a little confusing. The details and time limits of how to properly locate a claim vary by state. I see you are in Montana so your time frame for completing your location is reduced to 60 days rather than the 90 days in most states.

Here are the location laws for Montana:

82-2-101. Manner of locating claim. A person who discovers upon the public domain of the United States, within the state of Montana, a vein, lode, or ledge of rock in place bearing gold, silver, cinnabar, lead, tin, copper, or other valuable deposits or a placer deposit of gold or other deposit of minerals having a commercial value that is subject to entry and patent under the mining laws of the United States may, if qualified by the laws of the United States, locate a mining claim upon the vein, lode, ledge, or deposit in the following manner:
(1) The person shall post conspicuously at the point of discovery a written or printed notice of location containing the name of the claim, the name of the locator or locators, if there is more than one, the date of the location, which must be the date of posting the notice, and the approximate dimensions of the area of the claim intended to be appropriated.
(2) Within 30 days after posting the notice of location, the person shall distinctly mark the location on the ground so that its boundaries can be readily traced. It is prima facie evidence that the location is properly marked if the boundaries are defined by a monument at each corner or angle of the claim, consisting of any one of the following kinds:
(a) a tree at least 8 inches in diameter and blazed on four sides;
(b) a post at least 4 inches square by 4 feet 6 inches in length, set 1 foot in the ground, unless solid rock should occur at a less depth, in which case the post should be set upon the rock and surrounded in all cases by a mound of earth or stone at least 4 feet in diameter by 2 feet in height. A squared stump of the requisite size, surrounded by a mound, must be considered the equivalent of a post and mound.
(c) a stone at least 6 inches square by 18 inches in length, set two-thirds of its length in the ground, with a mound of earth or stone alongside at least 4 feet in diameter by 2 feet in height; or
(d) a boulder at least 3 feet above the natural surface of the ground on the upper side. When other monuments or monuments of lesser dimensions than those described in subsections (2)(a) through (2)(c) are used, it is a question for the jury or for the court where the action is tried without a jury as to whether the location has been marked upon the ground so that its boundaries can be readily traced. Whatever monument is used, it must be marked with the name of the claim and the designation of the corner, either by number or cardinal point.
(3) Within 60 days after posting notice, the locator shall comply with the United States mining laws.

82-2-102. Record of certificate of location. (1) Within 60 days after posting the notice of location, the locator shall record the location in the office of the county clerk of the county in which the mining claim is situated. The record must consist of a certificate of location for each claim containing:
(a) the name of the lode or claim and whether located as a lode or placer claim;
(b) the name of the locator or locators, if there is more than one, together with the post-office address of the locator or locators;
(c) the date of location and the description of the claim, with reference to some natural object or permanent monument, that will identify the claim and the section, township, and range in which the claim is situated by projected survey lines if located in unsurveyed country; and
(d) the directions and distances from the discovery point that describe the claim.
(2) The certificate of location must be verified before an officer authorized to administer oaths by the locator or one of the locators, if there is more than one, or by an authorized agent. In the case of a corporation, the verification may be made by an officer of the corporation or by an authorized agent. When the verification is made by an agent, the fact of the agency must be stated in the affidavit. A verified certificate of location or a certified copy of the certificate is prima facie evidence of all facts properly recited in the certificate. Failure of the locator or locators to record a certificate of location as required in this section creates a prima facie presumption of intent to abandon. However, recordation after the 60-day period but before the ground is located by another renews the location and saves the rights of the original locator. Nothing contained in 82-2-112 affects the prima facie presumption created by this section.

82-2-115. Filing of false mining claims. A person who offers a location certificate for a placer mining claim or lode claim or affidavit of assessment work to be filed in an office of a county clerk of this state on the person's own behalf or for any other person or a person who procures others to do so, knowing that the claim, certificate, or affidavit was not preceded by a proper location of the claim physically upon the ground by the establishment of a proper notice of claim and the designation of the surface boundaries of the claim by substantial posts or monuments as required by the laws of the state, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years, by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both.

After you do all that you need to send a copy of your location notice to the BLM State office along with the fees for that filing. The County Recording is your required public notice of the mining claim but the BLM is entitled to an annual informational notice since 1980. The BLM does not approve claims but they do want fees for locating one and annually thereafter.

Hope that helps!

Heavy Pans

Man Montana is no joke about it.

The part about having it verified by an officer..?

Is that satisfied nowadays just by filing or do you literally have to go in and have a verbal with an "officer" ?

Honestly when I see people complain about how Ca. deals with miners...I learn about how other states are and am glad I'm doing this here.

I am studying up on Nevada however..

 

[Clay Diggins]

Man Montana is no joke about it.

The part about having it verified by an officer..?

Is that satisfied nowadays just by filing or do you literally have to go in and have a verbal with an "officer" ?

Honestly when I see people complain about how Ca. deals with miners...I learn about how other states are and am glad I'm doing this here.

I am studying up on Nevada however..

Heck "an officer authorized to administer oaths" includes a notary public. It's really not that big a deal.

I like the part about "Filing of false mining claims". Kind of takes the wind out of paper filers.

Here's one from Colorado you might like:

The discoverer shall have sixty days from the time of uncovering or disclosing a lode to sink a discovery shaft thereon.

This is the kind of stuff a mining district can do if they find a need.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

Oh, I like it..especially when I'm like.. he he he I don't have anything to worry about.

But, yes a notary.Duh. I do remember reading about certain paperwork needing to be be notorized....someplace! More of that spoiled Californian coming out.

The way the law is written you picture a fella holding his hat in his hand making his statement.... With some guy behind a desk giving him the eye.

But ,these days you go to the lady who is a realtor and mobile notary.

So, would you do all of your paperwork go to a notary public, then go do your county recording? Your basically giving your VERBAL decree that you know the law and are adhering to it. Staking your claim and intent not just on paper. Officer witnesses and county records......

'MURICA

 

[Bejay]

Most County Recorder Offices have a notary and charge for the service.

Bejay

 

[Clay Diggins]

Most banks have a notary and it's free if you bank there.

Heavy Pans

 

[Underburden]

"Also, after I stake the claim and file the paperwork can I pan or sluice on the claim or do I have to wait until I get the official papers from BLM?"
Are you putting the cart before the horse? You should have done your panning prior to filing a claim in order to satisfy the discovery. I hope you're not filing on a dead piece of ground (no gold). Check open / closed claims in the area you're interested in using LR2000 or Land Matters. There may be a reason there are no claims there. You may be doing a whole lot of work needlessly.