Conspiracy To Keep Gold In The Ground....?

[Cal Kellogg]

Hello Everyone...

I live in Foresthill, Ca. and I'm really beginning to scratch my head....I live in the heart of Gold Rush country and I love prospecting, but there is clearly a war on prospectors. The over reach of the ASRA is well documented on these pages and I've run across folks that have had problems with Forest Service people out in the Tahoe and Eldorado National Forests....

With restrictions on digging, even scrapping dirt out of a tiny crack and wide spread restrictions on metal detecting it is becoming clear to me that the government at local, state and federal levels is heavily invested in keeping the gold in the ground and is very concerned about the possibility of the public finding something that they can turn a profit on. Why?

Even prior to the ASRA imposing their latest hands and pans rule, they were very clear that if you found gold legally in the ASRA that you couldn't sell it ?? Like they would ever know right?

While Federal and State official are clearly anti sluicing and panning, it seems like metal detectors are especially hated....Again scratching my head....What could be less invasive than a guy walking around at the speed of cold motor oil, scrapping 3 inch deep holes in the woods....?

The ASRA is a prefect example of what I'm talking about....They encourage mountain biking and motorcycling....Both sports create massive erosion. They encourage rafting, which results in much trash deposited in the river (and clearly someone is turning a profit by exploiting the river). Heck they even allow Placer County to operate a police shooting range in the ASRA that they must lease out to other LEO organizations because at times I've seen upwards of 100 people shooting at the range, far more people than the Placer Co. Sheriff's office employs...Hundreds of shooters, maybe thousands annually....Tens of thousands of lead slugs going into the environment, yet I'm the bad guy with my sore back, bad knee and Gold Bug 2....?

Is there an anti prospecting conspiracy and if so why? Why is the government soooooo invested in keeping the gold in the ground....?

 

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[Assembler]

Hey Calnatv...Yep I'm one of the owners of the Fish Sniffer Magazine... In my view every man is responsible for his own views. Dan has his views and I have mine. I am pro prospecting, pro dredging and pro liberty in the broad view. I've done a little writing about prospecting in the past and I also interviewed the head guy at the ASRA a while ago. One of the subjects we talked about was the Hands and Pans rules, but I got nowhere with him.....I've been prospecting for most of my life...I started going with my parents at a very young age....About the same time that I caught my first trout!

Thank you Cal Kellogg for making clear. Was wondering where the question was being directed to.

 

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[calnatv]

Right on Cal. I figured you didn't have anything to hide when you didn't try to hide your name. Tell Kathy Morgan I said hi. Tim Arbuckle

 

[Goldwasher]

how about an article thais about the benefits of dredging to fisheries and rivers in general.

like at least twice a year

 

[Assembler]

Mention from time to time "An ordinance for ascertaining the mode of locating and disposing of lands in the western territory, and for other purposes therein mentioned", passed by the Continental Congress on the 20th of May 1785, and eight other Acts up to March 1849.
If the readers interest is only about the waters may not be aware of the above Acts at all.
Thanks.

 

[mendoAu]

At least here on the West coast just a few "internet" sites jumped on the wagon (they had to pick on groups that didn't have power or financial backing) so they might get people to clik on their "DONATE macros. Names like Bob Ferris pop into mind. I don't want to appear cold hearted but the State Senator Wiggins of Cal. is resting in peace, Oregon Senator Bates died from a heart attack (while cleaning fish he killed) and I personnally am waiting for the next one. Politicians in general tend not to wear worn out jeans (unless purchased that way) and develop calluses' but rather sniff out funding for their next re-election. I've mentioned this before about how for half my life pot was illegal but dredging was fine....follow the money...now pot is legal and dredging is illegal. Dang....I just can't avoid being an outlaw!!!!!! It won't be a fair playing field until judges are elected and not appointed, and NO tenure.

 

[Assembler]

At least here on the West coast just a few "internet" sites jumped on the wagon (they had to pick on groups that didn't have power or financial backing) so they might get people to clik on their "DONATE macros. Names like Bob Ferris pop into mind. I don't want to appear cold hearted but the State Senator Wiggins of Cal. is resting in peace, Oregon Senator Bates died from a heart attack (while cleaning fish he killed) and I personnally am waiting for the next one. Politicians in general tend not to wear worn out jeans (unless purchased that way) and develop calluses' but rather sniff out funding for their next re-election. I've mentioned this before about how for half my life pot was illegal but dredging was fine....follow the money...now pot is legal and dredging is illegal. Dang....I just can't avoid being an outlaw!!!!!! It won't be a fair playing field until judges are elected and not appointed, and NO tenure.

Great point about the judges and thanks for pointing out mendoAu.

 

[Cal Kellogg]

Goldwasher....Hey I don't know a lot about dredging....I mean I know what it is....and such...I'm a panner, metal detector guy....If you or one of the capable folks on this site would like to write that piece I will absolutely run it!.... And if you're worried about grammer and such, put that thought away....I write a lot, but a big part of my job is also polishing the work of other folks....If there is any interest in creating such a piece shoot me a private message...We'll talk length, photos and the angle for the piece....In the broad view having folks divided, be they hunters and hikers, anglers and prospectors or whatever holds everyone back. The folks that want to strip us of our rights depend on us being divided and fighting among each other.....If I can help to break down any of those "walls" I'd be tickled pink! Heck I'm dealing with a bunch of guys right now that want to kill all the stripers in the Delta because they think that action will bring back our salmon runs.....It's not that simple and angler fighting angler gives joy to no one except the forces that area actually behind the decline of our salmon runs....It makes the head hurt sometimes...LOL!

 

[Cal Kellogg]

Here is a piece I wrote about the ASRA....I gave Mike Howard the benefit of the doubt in the piece...Although a lot of the time he was basically saying..."Hey I just work here"....Which is about what I expect when working with a state employee that can/could lose his job if he made a comment that didn't jive with state policy....Here's the piece...

Fresh Leadership Points To Positive Future For Auburn State Recreation Area

By Cal Kellogg

Living in and around the town of Auburn for the past 20 plus years, I’ve been a regular visitor to the Folsom Lake State Recreation Area and an almost daily visitor to the Auburn State Recreation Area.
I’ve done a good deal of fishing at Folsom Lake and consider it my “home lake”. Likewise, I’ve spend countless hours hiking, hunting, prospecting and fishing in the Auburn SRA and consider its canyons to be my “home woods”.
These adjoining recreation areas are managed by the California State Parks, yet the land that makes up these areas is largely federal, owned by the Bureau of Reclamation. This situation makes for a sometimes-convoluted mix of “management soup”.
The Folsom SRA is built around Folsom Dam and the reservoir. The plan was the same for the Auburn SRA. There was to be a dam built across the American River between the headwaters of Folsom Lake and the town of Auburn, creating “Lake Auburn”. The dam project was started in the 1960’s, but was derailed when a fault was discovered running through the proposed dam site.
There have been on again off again plans to build the dam ever since the project was stopped and the Bureau of Reclamation has maintained ownership of the land that was to be largely under the water of Lake Auburn. It’s this land that makes up the Auburn SRA.
The Bureau of Reclamation relies on the California State Parks for management of both SRAs, but the rules at play for park users are based on a mixture of both state and federal regulation.
Since both SRAs are so near and dear to my heart I’ve been a close observer of both and I’ve written both positively and negatively about the management of these area by the California State Parks in the past.
For the past few years I’ve been concerned, as have a lot of other Rec Area users, about the direction of both SRAs, particularly the Auburn SRA. The area comprises much of the north and middle forks of the American River. For years, the area has been used by a number of different user groups including hunters, anglers, prospectors, river rafters, horse riders, bicyclist, OHV riders, joggers and more.
Up until recently most of my concerns had been focused on the $10 a day fee collected for visiting the Auburn SRA and seasonal road closures that essentially close large areas to folks that don’t have a horse or bike or the physical ability to hike in. The fact that a 1,000 or more-vertical foot climb is required to access most river areas from main public roads illustrates the importance of road access for many, if not most user.
It has been my view that the access roads within the Auburn SRA shouldn’t be closed seasonally. The State Parks has long asserted that the closures were due to budget issues, despite the fact that they’d had more than a $50 million budget surplus as recently as 2012.
Toward the end of last year, I began hearing rumors that prospecting was going to be essentially banned within the SRA by a regulation that promised to outlaw the use of any type of tools beyond a gold pan. The “hands and pans” only rule was based on the idea that prospectors armed with spoons, old screw drivers and maybe a shovel were doing too much environmental damage.
Sure enough in the middle of January I saw the new regulation had been adopted and tools were banned. I was standing near the North Fork watching full size trees floating downstream as the river tore through the canyon at over 30,000 cfs when I decided to write this article.
“Wait a second,” I thought. “It’s too destructive for me to dig in the river bed with a garden trowel, yet I’m watching the river tear itself apart and rebuild itself right now. I knew the new regulation was silly, but feeling the rumble of the enraged river that day really drove home just how silly it really was!
In the following days, I reflected on how hunters are excluded from hunting various species within the SRA despite the fact that hunting is allowed in the SRA and there are legal seasons for the animals in question, such as ducks, geese, bears, mountain quail, rabbits and squirrels.
Deer, doves, California quail, bandtail pigeons and turkeys are the species that can be hunted within parts of the SRA.
It was with all this in mind that I contacted Mike Howard, the Auburn Sector Superintendent of the Auburn SRA for an interview. Basically, I just wanted to asked him some of the questions floating around in my mind and get his reaction.
Based on my prior interactions with State Parks management I wasn’t too optimistic about the conversation going in, but once I started speaking with Mr. Howard what I heard was pretty refreshing. He didn’t sound like your typical bureaucrat. He actually sounds like someone that is concerned about the SRA and its visitors.
Before I started with my question Mr. Howard related that he’s only been the Superintendent for four months, but that he would do his best to answer my questions.
Question One: It costs $10 for a day pass. To a lot of folks, it seems excessive in light of the fact that it is a fee for access to public land. How do you justify the fee?
“I agree that $10 sounds expensive. If you are a casual user and are only going to visit the park a couple times per year $10 isn’t a lot of money compared to other types of recreation. If you are a regular user, I would strongly encourage you to purchase an annual pass. It’s $125 for the year and allows day use with a vehicle in the Auburn and Folsom SRAs and a long list of other areas too. That comes to a little over $10 a month and only pennies a day for someone that hikes, bikes or jogs in the SRA several times per week.”
“As an aside I’d like to point out that the fees you pay are used in the state park that you purchased a pass for. When you purchase a pass from the Auburn SRA the funds are kept by that SRA. The fees don’t go into a general fund, so your fees are actually being used to manage the area you paid to access,” Howard responded.
Question 2: I understand that some roads that would currently be open have been knocked out by the rain, but there are other roads that are closed from fall until spring and some of those are paved. These are access roads, why aren’t they open for access all year?
“I could cite budget shortfalls and that’s part of it, but I’m going to be completely honest and tell you that I’m not sure why some of these roads are closed beyond the fact that they have always been closed at this time of the year. Some of them are dirt and we don’t want them damaged when they are wet and muddy. Yet the roads to Upper Clementine and China Bar are paved and seem like perfect access points right now when so many roads are washed out.”
“I think a possible, perhaps likely cure to these access issues is for the public to begin attending our management meetings. These sorts of meetings were stopped at some point before I took over, but I’m committed to bringing them back. I want the first one to be this summer. I think it is crucial to have the users attending these meetings and giving us feedback about their experiences and what they’d like to see being done. I’m a very pro-use guy. I don’t want to have anyone feeling excluded. The SRA encompasses a lot of land and I’d like to see all of our visitors accommodated as much as possible,” said Howard.
Question 3: With the river’s running, full bore, huge pieces of bank dissolving and trees being torn adrift, it seems ridiculous to have a provision that makes the use of hand tools off limits for small prospectors based on environmental concerns. How do you feel about this rule change and is there any chance of reversing it?
“At the end of the day this decision came from the federal authorities and their lawyers. It’s a federal policy at this point and we are implementing it. It doesn’t seem like a necessary regulation to me either, but it’s not something I can change. If we want this decision changed, we’ll have to go to the federal level.”
Question 5: Hunting is allowed in the SRA but only in a limited area and only for a limit number of species. What can hunters do to see an expansion of opportunity within the SRA?
“I’m not a hunter, but I respect the sport. In fact, I’ve not heard about any issues with hunters in the SRA. We know you guys are out there hunting, but in reality, with the exception of turkey season we rarely see any hunters. Most of the guys that do hunt here are out in the country side someplace. They just don’t operate near the roads and tend to stay to themselves.”
“The actual hunting areas and hunting regulations for the SRA are not determined by the State Parks. They were passed down from the Department of Fish and Wildlife. It seems logical to me that we could expand the number of species allowed and the areas where hunting can take place. This is especially true for archery hunting. I mean bows are a quiet, short range weapon and very non-invasive.”
“To get the kind of expansion you are looking for you’ll need to reach out to the DFW. It sounds positive to me, but they will ultimately have to make the call. Once again I urge you and everyone else with a stake in the Auburn SRA to attend our upcoming planning meetings. The dates will be posted on our website once we set them at parks.ca.gov. I’m hoping to have the first one at some point between June and August. I’m looking forward to meeting with the SRAs users and coming up with some policy that will satisfy the needs of everyone,” Howard asserted.
Conclusions: I’d like to thank Mike Howard for his time and positive attitude! I’m not done with these issues. I’ll be speaking in front of the Placer County Fish and Game Commission in late March and one of the subjects I’ll present is the potential expansion of hunting in the Auburn SRA.
In terms of the elimination of prospecting, I’ll be reaching out to Senator Ted Gaines for guidance and help.
The gold discoveries that triggered the Gold Rush in 1849 were on the American River. The Gold Rush changed not only California and the United States, it changed the world. Prospecting is part of our heritage here in California. It’s known as the Golden State after all.
The prospecting ban on the American River is an affront to both our heritage and our liberty and I’m going to do everything in my power to see the ban overturned.

 

[Goldwasher]

Goldwasher....Hey I don't know a lot about dredging....I mean I know what it is....and such...I'm a panner, metal detector guy....If you or one of the capable folks on this site would like to write that piece I will absolutely run it!.... And if you're worried about grammer and such, put that thought away....I write a lot, but a big part of my job is also polishing the work of other folks....If there is any interest in creating such a piece shoot me a private message...We'll talk length, photos and the angle for the piece....In the broad view having folks divided, be they hunters and hikers, anglers and prospectors or whatever holds everyone back. The folks that want to strip us of our rights depend on us being divided and fighting among each other.....If I can help to break down any of those "walls" I'd be tickled pink! Heck I'm dealing with a bunch of guys right now that want to kill all the stripers in the Delta because they think that action will bring back our salmon runs.....It's not that simple and angler fighting angler gives joy to no one except the forces that area actually behind the decline of our salmon runs....It makes the head hurt sometimes...LOL!
[/QUO


I'm heading out for the day.

I know people and will stuff your in box with many well written pieces.

 

[Goldwasher]

Here is a piece I wrote about the ASRA....I gave Mike Howard the benefit of the doubt in the piece...Although a lot of the time he was basically saying..."Hey I just work here"....Which is about what I expect when working with a state employee that can/could lose his job if he made a comment that didn't jive with state policy....Here's the piece...

Fresh Leadership Points To Positive Future For Auburn State Recreation Area






By Cal Kellogg

Living in and around the town of Auburn for the past 20 plus years, I’ve been a regular visitor to the Folsom Lake State Recreation Area and an almost daily visitor to the Auburn State Recreation Area.
I’ve done a good deal of fishing at Folsom Lake and consider it my “home lake”. Likewise, I’ve spend countless hours hiking, hunting, prospecting and fishing in the Auburn SRA and consider its canyons to be my “home woods”.
These adjoining recreation areas are managed by the California State Parks, yet the land that makes up these areas is largely federal, owned by the Bureau of Reclamation. This situation makes for a sometimes-convoluted mix of “management soup”.
The Folsom SRA is built around Folsom Dam and the reservoir. The plan was the same for the Auburn SRA. There was to be a dam built across the American River between the headwaters of Folsom Lake and the town of Auburn, creating “Lake Auburn”. The dam project was started in the 1960’s, but was derailed when a fault was discovered running through the proposed dam site.
There have been on again off again plans to build the dam ever since the project was stopped and the Bureau of Reclamation has maintained ownership of the land that was to be largely under the water of Lake Auburn. It’s this land that makes up the Auburn SRA.
The Bureau of Reclamation relies on the California State Parks for management of both SRAs, but the rules at play for park users are based on a mixture of both state and federal regulation.
Since both SRAs are so near and dear to my heart I’ve been a close observer of both and I’ve written both positively and negatively about the management of these area by the California State Parks in the past.
For the past few years I’ve been concerned, as have a lot of other Rec Area users, about the direction of both SRAs, particularly the Auburn SRA. The area comprises much of the north and middle forks of the American River. For years, the area has been used by a number of different user groups including hunters, anglers, prospectors, river rafters, horse riders, bicyclist, OHV riders, joggers and more.
Up until recently most of my concerns had been focused on the $10 a day fee collected for visiting the Auburn SRA and seasonal road closures that essentially close large areas to folks that don’t have a horse or bike or the physical ability to hike in. The fact that a 1,000 or more-vertical foot climb is required to access most river areas from main public roads illustrates the importance of road access for many, if not most user.
It has been my view that the access roads within the Auburn SRA shouldn’t be closed seasonally. The State Parks has long asserted that the closures were due to budget issues, despite the fact that they’d had more than a $50 million budget surplus as recently as 2012.
Toward the end of last year, I began hearing rumors that prospecting was going to be essentially banned within the SRA by a regulation that promised to outlaw the use of any type of tools beyond a gold pan. The “hands and pans” only rule was based on the idea that prospectors armed with spoons, old screw drivers and maybe a shovel were doing too much environmental damage.
Sure enough in the middle of January I saw the new regulation had been adopted and tools were banned. I was standing near the North Fork watching full size trees floating downstream as the river tore through the canyon at over 30,000 cfs when I decided to write this article.
“Wait a second,” I thought. “It’s too destructive for me to dig in the river bed with a garden trowel, yet I’m watching the river tear itself apart and rebuild itself right now. I knew the new regulation was silly, but feeling the rumble of the enraged river that day really drove home just how silly it really was!
In the following days, I reflected on how hunters are excluded from hunting various species within the SRA despite the fact that hunting is allowed in the SRA and there are legal seasons for the animals in question, such as ducks, geese, bears, mountain quail, rabbits and squirrels.
Deer, doves, California quail, bandtail pigeons and turkeys are the species that can be hunted within parts of the SRA.
It was with all this in mind that I contacted Mike Howard, the Auburn Sector Superintendent of the Auburn SRA for an interview. Basically, I just wanted to asked him some of the questions floating around in my mind and get his reaction.
Based on my prior interactions with State Parks management I wasn’t too optimistic about the conversation going in, but once I started speaking with Mr. Howard what I heard was pretty refreshing. He didn’t sound like your typical bureaucrat. He actually sounds like someone that is concerned about the SRA and its visitors.
Before I started with my question Mr. Howard related that he’s only been the Superintendent for four months, but that he would do his best to answer my questions.
Question One: It costs $10 for a day pass. To a lot of folks, it seems excessive in light of the fact that it is a fee for access to public land. How do you justify the fee?
“I agree that $10 sounds expensive. If you are a casual user and are only going to visit the park a couple times per year $10 isn’t a lot of money compared to other types of recreation. If you are a regular user, I would strongly encourage you to purchase an annual pass. It’s $125 for the year and allows day use with a vehicle in the Auburn and Folsom SRAs and a long list of other areas too. That comes to a little over $10 a month and only pennies a day for someone that hikes, bikes or jogs in the SRA several times per week.”
“As an aside I’d like to point out that the fees you pay are used in the state park that you purchased a pass for. When you purchase a pass from the Auburn SRA the funds are kept by that SRA. The fees don’t go into a general fund, so your fees are actually being used to manage the area you paid to access,” Howard responded.
Question 2: I understand that some roads that would currently be open have been knocked out by the rain, but there are other roads that are closed from fall until spring and some of those are paved. These are access roads, why aren’t they open for access all year?
“I could cite budget shortfalls and that’s part of it, but I’m going to be completely honest and tell you that I’m not sure why some of these roads are closed beyond the fact that they have always been closed at this time of the year. Some of them are dirt and we don’t want them damaged when they are wet and muddy. Yet the roads to Upper Clementine and China Bar are paved and seem like perfect access points right now when so many roads are washed out.”
“I think a possible, perhaps likely cure to these access issues is for the public to begin attending our management meetings. These sorts of meetings were stopped at some point before I took over, but I’m committed to bringing them back. I want the first one to be this summer. I think it is crucial to have the users attending these meetings and giving us feedback about their experiences and what they’d like to see being done. I’m a very pro-use guy. I don’t want to have anyone feeling excluded. The SRA encompasses a lot of land and I’d like to see all of our visitors accommodated as much as possible,” said Howard.
Question 3: With the river’s running, full bore, huge pieces of bank dissolving and trees being torn adrift, it seems ridiculous to have a provision that makes the use of hand tools off limits for small prospectors based on environmental concerns. How do you feel about this rule change and is there any chance of reversing it?
“At the end of the day this decision came from the federal authorities and their lawyers. It’s a federal policy at this point and we are implementing it. It doesn’t seem like a necessary regulation to me either, but it’s not something I can change. If we want this decision changed, we’ll have to go to the federal level.”
Question 5: Hunting is allowed in the SRA but only in a limited area and only for a limit number of species. What can hunters do to see an expansion of opportunity within the SRA?
“I’m not a hunter, but I respect the sport. In fact, I’ve not heard about any issues with hunters in the SRA. We know you guys are out there hunting, but in reality, with the exception of turkey season we rarely see any hunters. Most of the guys that do hunt here are out in the country side someplace. They just don’t operate near the roads and tend to stay to themselves.”
“The actual hunting areas and hunting regulations for the SRA are not determined by the State Parks. They were passed down from the Department of Fish and Wildlife. It seems logical to me that we could expand the number of species allowed and the areas where hunting can take place. This is especially true for archery hunting. I mean bows are a quiet, short range weapon and very non-invasive.”
“To get the kind of expansion you are looking for you’ll need to reach out to the DFW. It sounds positive to me, but they will ultimately have to make the call. Once again I urge you and everyone else with a stake in the Auburn SRA to attend our upcoming planning meetings. The dates will be posted on our website once we set them at parks.ca.gov. I’m hoping to have the first one at some point between June and August. I’m looking forward to meeting with the SRAs users and coming up with some policy that will satisfy the needs of everyone,” Howard asserted.
Conclusions: I’d like to thank Mike Howard for his time and positive attitude! I’m not done with these issues. I’ll be speaking in front of the Placer County Fish and Game Commission in late March and one of the subjects I’ll present is the potential expansion of hunting in the Auburn SRA.
In terms of the elimination of prospecting, I’ll be reaching out to Senator Ted Gaines for guidance and help.
The gold discoveries that triggered the Gold Rush in 1849 were on the American River. The Gold Rush changed not only California and the United States, it changed the world. Prospecting is part of our heritage here in California. It’s known as the Golden State after all.
The prospecting ban on the American River is an affront to both our heritage and our liberty and I’m going to do everything in my power to see the ban overturned.

That dude is so full of crap



Came down from the feds my ass. he knows it didn't. He also knows that even with pushback he can keep things the way they are because the majority of user pack up at the confluence and that's good enough for th​

em.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

You guys may as well sell your mining equipment, sell your guns, tuck your balls back and move to San Fran. (JK)

The state wil never withdraw the restrictions and they know there won't be an uproar of hobbyists at their door steps. Better take what you can get!

 

[mikep691]

You guys may as well sell your mining equipment, sell your guns, tuck your balls back and move to San Fran. (JK)

The state wil never withdraw the restrictions and they know there won't be an uproar of hobbyists at their door steps. Better take what you can get!

Don't think anyone here will anything. It's business as usual. Stay where there is no land to play on. Some day this state will turn around, likely when they can't milk their citizens any longer.

 

[mendoAu]

The prospecting ban on the American River is an affront to both our heritage and our liberty and I’m going to do everything in my power to see the ban overturned.

O.K. cal, if you are inclined to spend a couple of hours and pages of notes here's a thread posted on ifish.net. Be sure to take extra notice to bob ferris' and my (mendoAu) posts. Now bob ferris is a complete hobbit, unable to give an inch and should be known as such by everyone wondering what one person can do to corrupt the minds of those unwilling to do research and just take for granted a point of view. Like I said this thread will delve into allot of what we are up aganist.

www.ifish.net

and...if you have an inkling to pursue further examples of BS check out this thread about "POST YOUR REPORTS OF DREDGE DAMAGE" ....now this is real funny cause after like 14000 views (I havn't checked lately) there where perhaps TWO reports of minor (not miner) examples. Once again my posts under mendoAu should be viewed. (another time consuming thread that perhaps should be tackled after a good evening meal and a toasty fire in the stove to smooth out the bite of a couple sips of cheap gin).

www.ifish.net

PM me if you'd like and we can set up a time to chat. I'm kinda burned out on fighting for my rights and spend most time touching up the camo paint on my 5 inch dredge. I have for many years read the fish sniffer at my doctors office but been too cheap to subscribe but would love a free copy if you do write an extensive article on this subject...HA!

 

[DizzyDigger]

Mendo, as a steelhead fisherman, I was an Ifish member about 12 years back, but
the censorship and individuals like your Bob Ferris were just too much to stomach.

 

[Cal Kellogg]

Hahahahaha...That's about what I expected to read....I've seen a lot of this stuff on the hunting and fishing side of the table....Let me explain....Somebody has an agenda and then they take action against a group that has zero chance of winning...This is how they attacked and eliminated using hounds for hunting bears in CA. The hound guys were an easy target that had little hope of defending themselves despite the fact that the data indicates that the Ca bear population is growing to unsafe levels, impacting other animals like deer and can only be effectively managed with the use of hounds....These forces that look to take away rights are very careful about which targets they attack...Gold dredgers and prospectors are easy targets....You don't see the anti groups attacking the use of dogs in duck hunting because the California Waterfowl Ass. and Ducks Unlimited have money and lawyers to fight....Hound hunters don't, gold miners don't....I have a lot of folks come to me wanting to fight water exports to So. Cal....I'm not optimistic I admit it...They think they can derail the governor and huge corporations with two dozen retired guys marching around the capital with hand lettered cardboard signs....I always ask them how much money do you have for lawyers to take the fight to the water contractors...$1 million, $10 million...More? Because the folks you are trying to fight have those type of financial resources....You can't derail and train with a BB gun...It's sad, but true.... The lead bullet ban was another such deal....They state has ZERO evidence that lead ammo kills anything....Yet they used fake science to pass the statewide lead ban...It had everything to do with infringing on gun rights and zero about protecting wildlife....

 

[Assembler]

Hahahahaha...That's about what I expected to read....I've seen a lot of this stuff on the hunting and fishing side of the table....Let me explain....Somebody has an agenda and then they take action against a group that has zero chance of winning...This is how they attacked and eliminated using hounds for hunting bears in CA. The hound guys were an easy target that had little hope of defending themselves despite the fact that the data indicates that the Ca bear population is growing to unsafe levels, impacting other animals like deer and can only be effectively managed with the use of hounds....These forces that look to take away rights are very careful about which targets they attack...Gold dredgers and prospectors are easy targets....You don't see the anti groups attacking the use of dogs in duck hunting because the California Waterfowl Ass. and Ducks Unlimited have money and lawyers to fight....Hound hunters don't, gold miners don't....I have a lot of folks come to me wanting to fight water exports to So. Cal....I'm not optimistic I admit it...They think they can derail the governor and huge corporations with two dozen retired guys marching around the capital with hand lettered cardboard signs....I always ask them how much money do you have for lawyers to take the fight to the water contractors...$1 million, $10 million...More? Because the folks you are trying to fight have those type of financial resources....You can't derail and train with a BB gun...It's sad, but true.... The lead bullet ban was another such deal....They state has ZERO evidence that lead ammo kills anything....Yet they used fake science to pass the statewide lead ban...It had everything to do with infringing on gun rights and zero about protecting wildlife....

Anyone want to point out why 'Gold dredgers and prospectors' are easy targets?
Thanks.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Anyone want to point out why 'Gold dredgers and prospectors' are easy targets?
Thanks.

Because relative to the general population there are so few of us. There were probably even fewer guys hunting bears with dogs. Low numbers mean no power.
Going off at a tangent, here's another thing to consider. We have a lousy economy. A good part of the reason is that every time a new regulation is passed, it has a negative effect on economic activity. If you tell people they can't do things, that's one less thing they spend money on. I shudder to think how many regs have been passed in the last 20 years.
Jim

 

[Loneminer]

Hello Everyone. Is there an anti prospecting conspiracy and if so why? Why is the government soooooo invested in keeping the gold in the ground....?

Yes there is... it is international in scale, and in this country it is propagated by the environmental movement. In my opinion, they are the "unwitting" army of International Resource Companies who donate to corrupt politicians in order to create rules and regulations on the natural resource and farming communities, so strict that the only "people" who can afford them are International Resource Corporations. You see, those corporations, don't like to pay retail for their resource properties. If they can get groups of unwitting members of local communities to help destroy their own communities by locking out the ability of local businesses to extract those resources, life is good. Just pay off a corrupt politician to pass egregious laws, have the "troops on the ground" to repeat the reasons for "saving the community" from the local resource companies, so at some time in the future the International Companies can show up.... everything is working to plan. Look up the TPP and what it would have done to our local economies. It was an act of God that it was- temporarily- defeated.

People need to wake up. It's a world wide problem, with each country having it implemented on them in their own unique way. In our country, the environmental groups are "saving us" and unwittingly allowing the international corporations free reign on discounted resource properties which people in local communities used to own. If you want an eye-opener, take a look at the LR2000 and count how many mining properties in the US are owned by non-American sounding names, located in P.O. Box addresses. The writing is on the wall. There will be another gold rush soon, yet Americans will NOT be controlling the properties.

 

[Assembler]

Because relative to the general population there are so few of us. There were probably even fewer guys hunting bears with dogs. Low numbers mean no power.
Going off at a tangent, here's another thing to consider. We have a lousy economy. A good part of the reason is that every time a new regulation is passed, it has a negative effect on economic activity. If you tell people they can't do things, that's one less thing they spend money on. I shudder to think how many regs have been passed in the last 20 years.
Jim

Yes some states have as many as 10,000 new regs per year at all levels. Thanks for your input Jim in Idaho. The 'Courts' may be overloaded as well.

 

[goldog]

News Alert : In some areas of the Sierra Nevada the yellow legged mountain frog are endangered & protected.

That’s actually the Mountain Yellow Legged Frog. They closed the creek to protect the MYLF.