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Thread: Fraudulent top-filers?

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  1. #16
    us
    Hardrock prospector

    May 2017
    Middle Oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bejay View Post
    I am glad the overclaimers backed off once you let them know "what is what". Sometimes such people don't want to play by the rules and then you really have a mess to deal with. The mining laws specify that such matters must be cleared up via the courts and that process is in itself a real process of due diligence. Nice you got it worked out. Way to go!

    Bejay
    BINGO. There is "U.S. Mining Case Law" that backs this up. Anyone care to point out some?

    Again the point about "Discovery" is not to be taken lightly.

  2. #17
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    Legal significance of the Monument:
    Law provides that the original corners established during the process of the survey shall forever remain fixed in position, even to disregarding technical errors in the execution of the survey, where discrepancies may have passed undetected prior to the acceptance of the survey.

  3. #18
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye39 View Post
    How come those guys didn't see your claim corner posts?
    Good question!

    Made me think they never went out there.

    Our monuments are obvious.

  4. #19
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikep691 View Post
    I don't believe Nevada requires them. The state even considered changing the state flower to 3"PVC. But as I mentioned earlier you should have a discovery monument in each of the 20 acre portions of the claim. Keep good records, or it's just money spent.
    Good point.

    Nevada does require a monument (these are placer claims) and it can't be PVC.

    For us it's a 2x2 4' post with the Notice of Location obviously attached.

    We take dated pictures of the monument after erecting so should it come down to court we have solid proof we were there first.
    Last edited by Rail Dawg; May 16, 2018 at 11:12 PM.

  5. #20
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    They are lode claims I believe.



    So a minimum of 5 monuments per lode claim.

    Placer claims when they are located by aliquot part only require a discovery monument along the North boundary of the claim.

    These are Nevada location laws, other states have different requirements.

    Heavy Pans
    Yep that's how we see it Clay.

    These are placer claims and we always put a monument in the NW corner.

  6. #21
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bejay View Post
    I am glad the overclaimers backed off once you let them know "what is what". Sometimes such people don't want to play by the rules and then you really have a mess to deal with. The mining laws specify that such matters must be cleared up via the courts and that process is in itself a real process of due diligence. Nice you got it worked out. Way to go!

    Bejay

    Thanks Bejay.

    Yeah we like the direct approach of a friendly phone call.

    The guy backed off quickly which was great.

    LR2000/MyLandMatters will show them on the claim because the BLM did take their money but after they don't pay the maintenance fee for 2019 it will simply go to a closed status as you know.

    He did say he had asked the county recorder if the claim was available and was given the wrong answer.

    Most of us here know it's not the job of the county recorder to make these judgments and I've found Pershing County recorders to be professional and helpful.

    However we don't rely on them for advice on what's locatable or not that's simply not their job.

    The 8 filers just learned an expensive lesson (about $2000) on due diligence before paying the fees.

    The guy was nice on the phone so I spent a little time giving some education on the proper way to go about these things.

    In the beginning I made similar mistakes and it doesn't take much thrown-away money to learn the lessons lol.

  7. #22

    May 2013
    Surprise, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bejay View Post
    I am glad the overclaimers backed off once you let them know "what is what". Sometimes such people don't want to play by the rules and then you really have a mess to deal with. The mining laws specify that such matters must be cleared up via the courts and that process is in itself a real process of due diligence. Nice you got it worked out. Way to go!

    Bejay
    In this case it was an honest mistake. I was not involved, but have knowledge of the situation. Not everybody is crooked.
    Last edited by hawkeye39; May 16, 2018 at 11:43 PM.
    Rail Dawg and Clay Diggins like this.

  8. #23
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye39 View Post
    In this case it was an honest mistake. I was not involved, but have knowledge of the situation. Not everybody is crooked.
    Not at all. If you know the guy please tell him I thought he handled it professionally.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  9. #24
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye39 View Post
    How come those guys didn't see your claim corner posts?
    it doesn't matter if you research at the county and find an area has a claim and it is described and was located properly it is up to you to know what areas you can't claim.

    A monument or corner could have been vandalized or destroyed. That doesn't invalidate the claim.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; May 17, 2018 at 09:16 AM.
    Bejay and Clay Diggins like this.

  10. #25
    us
    Brian

    Mar 2014
    Central Oregon Coast
    Whites GMT Garret fully underwater
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    There is always different "locational issues" for each state. No doubt most of us who have claims have dealt with issues of monument and corner destruction. And such destruction does not invalidate the claim. While each state has certain requirements to "Validate" that does not mean one can not do more than is asked of them to "secure notice". Professional looking signs secured to well driven 2 inch metal pipe works. Placing signage high up into a tree helps. Even bright spray painted signage on a huge rock works. Anything one can do to place people on notice that a claim exists helps. On a big tree we often even put each and every years date on it with paint.....and our big signage is 20 feet up in a tree....with a laminated location notice placard right below it. You can't read the location notice that high in a tree but it shows that one exists. The readable stuff we put at reachable access...and usually those docs disappear in short order.

    The worst claim dispute I have had was with a "mining club". When the club disputes you, they have endless numbers of members who want to work the claim and one is constantly battling each and every one of them. You would think the people running a mining club would be knowledgeable but sometimes even they are ignorant of the mining location issues. And BLM is no help at all....as they are not the record but merely a keeper of files....to insure maint payment and or work done.

    Bejay
    Last edited by Bejay; May 17, 2018 at 09:31 AM.
    Clay Diggins and Rail Dawg like this.

  11. #26
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Well said Bejay.

    It’s up to us and only us to know the ins and outs of locating/recording our claims correctly.

    While there are good people at the BLM and county I’ve learned to trust but verify lol.

  12. #27
    bug
    bug is offline

    Jun 2008
    Nor Cal
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    Hey Raildog, I was out there with topfiler and know it was an honest mistake by them. They were hoping to secure a new club claim. I will say your SW boundary usgs pins only have ancient posts with no indication of a new filing or location monuments. This was unlike your other claims in the area that are clearly marked by new posts and loc notices. With 8 lode claims on the quarter section there should be 45 posts total like Clay mentioned. This seemed to not be the case. What I would suggest is placing new posts on your claim, and mark them as to what corner it is, and also how many feet and the direction N S W or E to the next corner.
    Happy hunting
    Last edited by bug; May 17, 2018 at 03:50 PM.

  13. #28
    us
    Hardrock prospector

    May 2017
    Middle Oregon
    Whites, Fisher, Garrett, and Falcon.
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    444 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by bug View Post
    Hey Raildog, I was out there with topfiler and know it was an honest mistake by them. They were hoping to secure a new club claim. I will say your SW boundary usgs pins only have ancient posts with no indication of a new filing or location monuments. This was unlike your other claims in the area that are clearly marked by new posts and loc notices. With 8 lode claims on the quarter section there should be 45 posts total like Clay mentioned. This seemed to not be the case. What I would suggest is placing new posts on your claim, and mark them as to what corner it is, and also how many feet and the direction N S W or E to the next corner.
    Happy hunting
    Thanks for pointing this out as others a number of "States" away have no idea at all.

  14. #29

    Apr 2014
    437
    801 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The properties (Mineral Estates/mining claims) the co-owner and I possess are well posted, with a map of location where one is standing in relation to all points of normal entry (raods, trails, creeks, and corners and inbetweens where accessable). And any time the postings are changed out due to fading, updating, etc, they are both photographed and videoed for our records.
    Assembler and Rail Dawg like this.

  15. #30
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by bug View Post
    Hey Raildog, I was out there with topfiler and know it was an honest mistake by them. They were hoping to secure a new club claim. I will say your SW boundary usgs pins only have ancient posts with no indication of a new filing or location monuments. This was unlike your other claims in the area that are clearly marked by new posts and loc notices. With 8 lode claims on the quarter section there should be 45 posts total like Clay mentioned. This seemed to not be the case. What I would suggest is placing new posts on your claim, and mark them as to what corner it is, and also how many feet and the direction N S W or E to the next corner.
    Happy hunting
    Appreciate this.

    These are placer claims... not lode.

    There are (or at least were 2 months ago) new 2x2 wood posts with a blue tip only in the NW corners since they are placer.

    The BLM had them as lode by mistake on LR2000 but we fixed that.

    Thanks for the info though.

    The COL’s were recorded on the Pershing County web site in early April.

    We saw them there then but for some reason your guys didn’t see this recording before filing their claims last week.

    The Pershing County database can be tricky at first when trying to find info but it’s imperative that this be learned before locating a claim.

    Bummer about the money you all spent on fees.

    Been there done that!

    Take care.
    Last edited by Rail Dawg; May 17, 2018 at 06:14 PM.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

 

 
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