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Thread: Ive been Claim Jumped!

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  1. #31
    us
    Jun 2013
    El Dorado County
    ROCKING GOLD GRABBER MINI- BGT PROSPECTOR- ANGUS MACKIRK EXPLORER- MILLER TABLE, MULTIPLE SUCKER TUBES, VARIOUS HAND TOOLS, PANS AND CLASSIFERS, FORS GOLD PLUS, MINELAB PRO 25 PINPOINTER- DIY ROD MILL
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    Dang that's sucks!
    Asmbandits likes this.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDoozah View Post
    The fact that homo sapiens teach genetically engineered canines tricks, on the third planet of this particular star in the Milky Way, is extremely unlikely.

  2. #32
    us
    Brian

    Mar 2014
    Central Oregon Coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmbandits View Post
    Yeah, you don't find too many these day taking the time to mark in the extent I did, making it even more bothersome. Everything is brand new still you can tell.. it's hard not getting upset about that aspect.

    I assume it may have aided this individual possibly to some degree, it would be easy to find my discovery monument and take the location notice and use it to top file which sounds like is the case..

    Here is the real kicker though, he claims to have checked with blm and county, the blm typo was made in the coordinates, you could still find the claim if you ran a report by anything but coordinates. He had all my info which if brought to the blm would have still showed up with that info and that should have been the end of it there.

    It just seems like no actual research was done, or was this an intentional grab of some sort or just plain straightht up theft..
    I would venture to say he was counting on capitalizing on what appeared to be a mistake by you. If he had done more due diligence he would have seen two different claim issues...the County Recording and the BLM filing...hence if he were knowledgeable about claim locating he would have known that the County Recording is the Gospel and that the BLM is just a filing for BLM use. Most individuals get the two completely mixed up. But I'll bet he was counting on a mistake being made by you.


    Bejay
    N-Lionberger and Asmbandits like this.

  3. #33
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bejay View Post
    I would venture to say he was counting on capitalizing on what appeared to be a mistake by you. If he had done more due diligence he would have seen two different claim issues...the County Recording and the BLM filing...hence if he were knowledgeable about claim locating he would have known that the County Recording is the Gospel and that the BLM is just a filing for BLM use. Most individuals get the two completely mixed up. But I'll bet he was counting on a mistake being made by you.


    Bejay
    Yes, I would say this is the case.

    I am glad you were able to remain calm while talking to the claim jumper though, better to dot your I's and cross your T's legally before going for the kill. I always have an attorney under for that retainer for that reason.

    I have had really good luck with that lately. When a neighbor said I was cutting wood on her side of the property line I just called my attorney, then informed her I was in the right and any dispute would be on her to prove. If I was found to be in the right, the fee was $360 an hour starting immediately. That ended that conversation.

    I would think this would be the same way.

  4. #34
    us
    Mike

    Dec 2014
    Bodfish and Marin county CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by bug View Post
    BLM and the County recorders need not even have any paperwork and the claim can still be 100% legit out to 90 days.
    Not to highjack this thread but I have a question about this 90 day thing.
    you're saying I have 90 days to file without any recording.
    I thought you had 90 to file with BLM "after" you file with county.
    If there is no recording how are you going to prove it ??
    Asmbandits likes this.
    Stay thirsty my friends

  5. #35
    bug
    bug is offline

    Jun 2008
    Nor Cal
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    Hey Bodfish Mike, For California its 90 days. Do all your paperwork, set monument, corners and document with pics.
    You could technically have the claim and work it for the 90 days free of charge and then decide if its still worth keeping.
    If the claim is really good, I probably wouldnt play around though, and would get into the county asap

  6. #36
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodfish Mike View Post
    Not to highjack this thread but I have a question about this 90 day thing.
    you're saying I have 90 days to file without any recording.
    I thought you had 90 to file with BLM "after" you file with county.
    If there is no recording how are you going to prove it ??
    Mike the claim location date is the date you put up the location monument on the ground. You have 90 days from that date to make your FLPMA informational filing with the BLM.

    Each State has their own time requirement for when you need to record your public notice. That public notice, in most States, is made at the County Recorder office. Most States require that public notice be recorded within 90 days after location but some are less. No State can allow more than 90 days after location to make your public record but they can make that time requirement shorter. Always check your State location laws, never assume they allow 90 days. That goes doubly for annual recording requirements - those are all over the place.

    Your location date and the "proof" of your claim location are established when you set your location monument in the ground. The public record is required but it does not establish your location date nor is it proof you have a claim. Your claim is made (located) by physical notice on the ground - not by submitting paperwork.

    To break this down into the duties specified in the Mining Acts:
    1. The requirement in the Mining Act to "maintain" your claim is accomplished by keeping timely on your paperwork, fees and notices. This has the very practical effect of putting the public and the government on public notice of the existence of your claim.
    2. The requirement in the Mining Act to "occupy" your claim is accomplished by clearly marking the bounds of your claim and performing your annual work. It also means working your claim to the exclusion of others. This has the equally practical effect of putting visitors to your claim area on notice of it's actual location on the ground.


    Just four acts are required to complete your duties to complete your claim process:
    1. Discover a valuable mineral deposit.
    2. Establish the physical boundaries of the claim location on the ground and post a location notice on a monument meeting State requirements for marking, staking and location monuments.
    3. Make a public record of your location notice within the required time after posting that notice on the ground.
    4. File an informational copy of the location notice with the BLM State office within 90 days of locating the claim on the ground.


    First is the discovery, second is the marking and monumenting on the ground. Once you have accomplished those two acts you have a mining claim that can be legally defended against subsequent locators as long as you accomplish your public record and FLPMA informational filing within the legal time limit.

    It doesn't matter legally whether you file with the BLM first or make your public record with the county first. I find it's more helpful to file a copy of your public record with the BLM last because then the BLM can include the County "book and page" code on the serial register page. Having that book and page number can make it a lot easier to find the location notice recording at the County Recorder's office. It's just a practical thing, nothing in federal law says one or the other has to be first.

    Heavy Pans

  7. #37
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    typically they run a report at the counter (blm) and ask if you know about the claims in that subdivision. Almost like they care...it's weird.

    But, even if you are wrong about your locations description. Top filing by mistake. they'll take your money and file the location. then take your annual monies even if your location is invalid. For years.

    The county employee you record with has at least half as much knowledge of surveys and location descriptions as you.

    Even if you have terrible knowledge on the subject.

    Amazingly the guys in the surveyors office have a quarter of that.

    Unfortunately I don't think its gonna get any better. For California at least.

  8. #38
    us
    Mike

    Dec 2014
    Bodfish and Marin county CA
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    OK got it and thanks for the very informative post.
    But let's say I post a location notice on a monument and have not filed with BLM or county yet and
    take a few day off of digging and come back and my Location marker has been taken down by some guy maybe named Steve and he has erected a new one with his name on it -- so I guess it doesn't mean squat til I file paperwork.
    cheers Mike
    Asmbandits likes this.
    Stay thirsty my friends

  9. #39

    Jan 2019
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    Hi there everyone I have never posted to a thread prior to this but I think that there is some false statements being made. I am the one who filed on the previous claim and the whole claim jumper thing is bogus. I was on a dirt bike trail saw some some land and a sign talking about a placer claim. Had no idea what it was and started asking questions. Called the county and they said it hadnt been active since 2016. I asked if I could activate it and they said yes. I paid the fees and then registered it with BLM so its all legal and registered. At the claim nothing had been done since 2016 so i took down the placard and wrote my name on the two little nail on signs. As far as both BLM and El dorado county knew the claim had been abandoned. I have been there twice with my 80 year old father poking around to get him out of the house. If the previous owner had actually called me before blasting me on this post I probably would have more compassion. Then sending me the link showing him blasting me is a jr high school way to handle things. As of now all the records in both the county and the BLM show me as the claim owner so that doesnt give much credibility to the story of it was just a County/BLM filling mistake. I am not sure how I want to handle this as of yet but now you know the whole story !
    gold tramp and Asmbandits like this.

  10. #40
    us
    Brian

    Mar 2014
    Central Oregon Coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodfish Mike View Post
    OK got it and thanks for the very informative post.
    But let's say I post a location notice on a monument and have not filed with BLM or county yet and
    take a few day off of digging and come back and my Location marker has been taken down by some guy maybe named Steve and he has erected a new one with his name on it -- so I guess it doesn't mean squat til I file paperwork.
    cheers Mike
    It is prudent to take pics of all your markers..and location notice with dates showing...and it is prudent to have a witness in the pic.....when you 1st locate after locating mineral. I know of some instances where an overclaimer removes the docs before the original claimant files/records....the 90 day window to overclaim Pics prove dates.


    Bejay

  11. #41
    us
    Aug 2004
    Olympia WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondi View Post
    Hi there everyone I have never posted to a thread prior to this but I think that there is some false statements being made. I am the one who filed on the previous claim and the whole claim jumper thing is bogus. I was on a dirt bike trail saw some some land and a sign talking about a placer claim. Had no idea what it was and started asking questions. Called the county and they said it hadnt been active since 2016. I asked if I could activate it and they said yes. I paid the fees and then registered it with BLM so its all legal and registered. At the claim nothing had been done since 2016 so i took down the placard and wrote my name on the two little nail on signs. As far as both BLM and El dorado county knew the claim had been abandoned. I have been there twice with my 80 year old father poking around to get him out of the house. If the previous owner had actually called me before blasting me on this post I probably would have more compassion. Then sending me the link showing him blasting me is a jr high school way to handle things. As of now all the records in both the county and the BLM show me as the claim owner so that doesnt give much credibility to the story of it was just a County/BLM filling mistake. I am not sure how I want to handle this as of yet but now you know the whole story !
    The paper trail at the County will tell the tale. All claims begin and end at the County. If the original owner has filed his annual assessment paperwork (like he said he did) then that shows possession. This will be superior to your new claim. It is important to note that both the County and the BLM will happily take your money because all they are doing is filing the document. They do not research the validity or location and there is no refund.

    You have two choices as I see it... You can concede or you can fight for ownership. I am not an attorney but If the original owner did indeed file his paperwork as claimed then you will spend a lot of money in court and eventually lose. If he failed to to file correctly you will spend a lot of money in court and then perhaps still lose. A lot of this will come down to good faith effort and if the statements in this post are true, he has done that.

    Mining claim laws are extremely complex and it is very easy for people to end up where you are. From the info posted it would seem you fell into this and that he is the rightful owner. Please understand his dismay because this is apparently his property you have apparently attempted to take. If the previous owner had called you it would be different but if you had called him it also would have been different. Imagine how you would react if someone changed the address numbers on your house and claimed as their own?

    If the paperwork has been filed properly. my advice is to apologize for the misunderstanding and offer to void your (invalid) claim. Then ask if it's ok if you can have use of his claim a couple times a year so you can take your dad out for some panning fun. If you are straight up with him, I am guessing he will oblige.

    Neither of you will enjoy settling this in court.
    Last edited by Bonaro; Jan 29, 2019 at 01:32 AM.

  12. #42

    Mar 2016
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    There is a patch of gold bearing ground near me. People that are knowledgeable about mining claim research know that the land was withdrawn from mineral entry. Anybody want to guess if the County and BLM were willing to accept fees paid by various claimants and enter the claim into their system

    It takes about 1 year for the BLM to catch the fact that the land is closed to mineral entry then they send a letter out notifying the assuming owner, who lost all of his fees.

    Meanwhile signs have been excessively put up and every tree pissed on. They can’t figure out why they keep getting mineral trespassed. “It’s in the BLM system it must be valid!!” Can’t convince them otherwise because the county recorded the notice and BLM accepted their paperwork/fees and published the claim in the LR2000 database.
    All treasures found with permission on private property or on active mining claims.

  13. #43

    Mar 2016
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    “I asked and they said it was open” that was the first statement that jumped out at me.
    There is no way to shift the burden of research over to a county employee or the BLM.
    That should be understood.

    The second was “nothing had been done out at the claim since 2016”.
    There is no requirement in California to keep the location notice up to date.
    Common misconception that if you walk over to the post and open a mayo jar and find old location notice papers, it is open ground.

    One other misconception is that if there are no location notices or signs up, that the ground is open.
    No requirement to maintain the initial location notice nor mark the limits of the claim. The burden is on the public to research the public records. People just tear the signs down and do as they please.
    Bejay, et1955, Asmbandits and 3 others like this.
    All treasures found with permission on private property or on active mining claims.

  14. #44
    us
    Brian

    Mar 2014
    Central Oregon Coast
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    Hello Klondi. I would offer the following as a resolve. Go back to the County and find Asmbandits original location papers (or allow him to send/give you a copy)…..along with copies of his work affidavits/maint fee docs etc. The County holds the record and he will have those recorded docs. You must realize that the BLM is only a entity that keeps a payment file/work file...it is merely a file keeper. If the BLM errored in their location plotting per their "filing keeping" it has no standing to offer advice about open or closed status. As a matter of fact all matters relating to such BLM disclosures state right on them that the BLM does not warrant information. All the BLM does is collect some info for their files. The County record will disclose ownership. Who was 1st......Him or you and what does the County paper trail show. Pretty simple resolve....mistakes happen and neither of you will benefit from a squabble when the facts present themselves. Sounds like a pretty easy resolve.


    Additionally the BLM will take money for locations all day long...every day....and they will allow overclaiming to be endless.


    Thanks for offering the rest of the story Klondi


    Bejay

  15. #45

    Mar 2014
    NorCal
    Fisher GB2, Bazooka Prospector 36", EZ sluice, Blue Bowl..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondi View Post
    Hi there everyone I have never posted to a thread prior to this but I think that there is some false statements being made. I am the one who filed on the previous claim and the whole claim jumper thing is bogus. I was on a dirt bike trail saw some some land and a sign talking about a placer claim. Had no idea what it was and started asking questions. Called the county and they said it hadnt been active since 2016. I asked if I could activate it and they said yes. I paid the fees and then registered it with BLM so its all legal and registered. At the claim nothing had been done since 2016 so i took down the placard and wrote my name on the two little nail on signs. As far as both BLM and El dorado county knew the claim had been abandoned. I have been there twice with my 80 year old father poking around to get him out of the house. If the previous owner had actually called me before blasting me on this post I probably would have more compassion. Then sending me the link showing him blasting me is a jr high school way to handle things. As of now all the records in both the county and the BLM show me as the claim owner so that doesnt give much credibility to the story of it was just a County/BLM filling mistake. I am not sure how I want to handle this as of yet but now you know the whole story !
    Steven, I sent you a link to this thread so you could be in the loop and hopefully learn from this mistake you have made, possibly ask some questions of your own. I don't think you understand the seriousness of the mistakes you have made and that I can and will have other means of action to take but was trying to give you a chance to see your fault and do the right thing. What you have done is no different that stealing someones property be it a car or bike or mining claim or custom made placard and if you do not see it that way and would like to hold your ground then I will act accordingly. Your story of finding my discovery monument on your motorcycle sounds just about as I imagined the situation to be, not sure why just because you found it that somehow now it should belong to you. I can tell from your statements as also talking on the phone that you have a very vague understanding of how this stuff works. Your assumption of the blm and county "letting" you claim it makes it legit is far from the case and if you would have known the correct things to look for at the county and blm and not ask them their opinions we would not be here.

    I have here on my desk the notice of intent to hold stamped by El dorado county when I filled it there on 8-14-2017. The last paper filled there was my affidavit of assessment work on 10-9-2018. These are what you should have been looking for, had they not been filled you might have something to stand on to some degree. You have to ask for specific documents and know how to understand them when looking into this stuff, asking the clerk at blm or county if land is open or not is not good enough.

    I promise you my paperwork is solid with blm and county, this is why when I spoke to you I said you need to verify these thing on your end to see for yourself. I am the rightful owner of the claim you filed over and stole from, If you still cannot see this soon then I will act accordingly, and everything I have done up to this point has been warranted and very lenient...
    Last edited by Asmbandits; Jan 29, 2019 at 09:48 AM.
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