Crazy sky miner or just being pragmatic.

[ncclaymaker]

Been flying ultralight aircraft for decades, had a blast... all landings were survivable. Have decided to change the type of ultralight from fixed to flexible wing, namely a motorized paraglider (Powered Paraglider or PPG) Does this sound like a practical means of surveying remote or difficult to explore mining sites in AZ or NV, without destroying my Jeep Wrangler. Takeoff and landing requires a very short distance. This way, I could explore mining areas that can probably be seen only from the air.

The big question is... there is risk attendant to PPG flight, especially in remote or difficult to approach areas. Do you guys think that this a practical and safer means than a ground based vehicle or not? Mind you, I've been flying these noisy beach chairs for years, but never in the great southwest outback, that is the real game changer. Opinions, pro and con, would be greatly appreciated.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

Kinds hard to spot gold from up there isn't it?

Heavy Pans

 

[ncclaymaker]

Just as an expedient means of getting there, spotting the old mining activity, dumps or miner cabins that can best be seen from the air. Maybe someone can invent an "aerial gold pan" that can be suspended like a tail hook. Just joking!

 

[Tpmetal]

yeah I try to keep my feet on the ground unless necessary.... thing looks like a disaster waiting to happen in my eyes. But if you are already into flying sketchy aircraft, go for it.

 

[Goldwasher]

there was recently a video on a relic page i'm on of a guy doing that very thing. on the plain in the valley that meets the foothills. A spot that had some bucket dredge activity., he flew right over the tailings. saw a cabin site landed detected. took off again.

He then proceeded to catch holy hell as several members recognized the ranch and knew he was trespassing.. He left the page to avoid further ridicule.

I think if your a good pilot and are comfortable with the terrain for take off and landing. It would in fact be a pretty badass way to get to some otherwise hard to get to spots.

I know several landlocked blm areas i would love to get into. But, I'm not learning to fly one of those things.

 

[ncclaymaker]

Since all of my controlled crashes(landings) have been successful, the risk is minimized. Besides, I'm piloting a wing shaped parachute. Less of a risk than entering a 100 year old mining tunnel that has a fair chance of entombing the explorer. Sketchy, it's not, thousand do it every day... safely. I thought that using the PPG as a means of checking out the roadway and avoiding the "desert billies/survivalists/meth labs" would not be a bad idea. Safety is also on my mind.

I'll be equipped with Personal Locator Beacon in the event that I do go down unexpectedly. Uses satellite communications, notifies the satellite system that an "event" has occurred with you exact location. The unit contains an IR and laser feature that can be seen day or night. It's like having AAA, sea air rescue all rolled up as one. I would personally suggest that anyone going to a remote area have one. Break a leg, damage your vehicle, have a catastrophic medical issue or run out of fuel 50 miles from anything... you will be SOL.

 

[akflyer]

Only thing that ruins your day is wind. You take off, fly and land at 28 MPH. Much wind at all and your flying backwards. I have a buddy that has flown his all over Idaho and the cali desert and has an absolute blast with it. The nay sayers that think they are nothing more than a death trap don't know much about living if ya ask me. I would rather die trying to live than to live trying not to die. The PPC have proven to be very safe.

 

[firemanphob]

One thing I would add, if you do stumble upon illegal activity, it's going to be impossible to not be seen and nothing around you to stop any lead projectiles. You're not going to escape very fast at 28 mph.

 

[Terry Soloman]

It is hard to get into some of the canyons and mountains, even with a Robinson 44 helicopter. Landing off airport is forbidden without a permit on BLM controlled land. The first Cholla you catch landing could really mess up your day.

 

[DizzyDigger]

The first Cholla you catch landing could really mess up your day.

Man's got a point there...

Have you considered using a UAV?

 

[ncclaymaker]

It is hard to get into some of the canyons and mountains, even with a Robinson 44 helicopter. Landing off airport is forbidden without a permit on BLM controlled land. The first Cholla you catch landing could really mess up your day.

Terri I'll have to disagree with a few small items. The BLM has absolutely no authority over FAA FAR103 aircraft, in fact no authority over anything that goes airborne. Landing at at airport - now here's the real deal. Unless have you declared an emergency you are prohibited from entering controlled airspace or an airfield with a tower. You may if you have permission/instructions from the ATC, otherwise you will be issued a very serious citation.

I totally agree on impact with a cholla. They can destroy tires and make removal from you a painful surgical procedure.

 

[medusa]

Are you trike or foot launch? Where we are in Arizona, it's possible to foot launch and find a place to land out, but with trike could be a bit trickier. We are in Gold Basin and live about 3 miles from club claims. But when my husband flies ppg he has launched off the dry lake bed near us. He hasn't flown over the claims yet but he probably will. He will probably do it with the powered hanglider though. We have a lot of helicopter traffic due to refueling stations by the claims, so caution and aviation radio would be good. I'm sure there are many other placer areas that would be possible as well.
Ppg inspection and repair is our business, so combining it with gold prospecting is something we want to do.
Bad thing is, if you have to land out in our area, its full of Joshua trees, cholla and yuccas. Even if you miss them, your wing might not. Lots of roads and trails though for emergency landing.
Do you use go pro or 360 camera? I think you could get great shots to review for good areas. I hope you get to try it and let us know how it goes!

 

[Clay Diggins]

From the FAA AIM manual:

7−4−6. Flights Over Charted U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest Service Areas

a. The landing of aircraft is prohibited on lands or waters administered by the National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or U.S. Forest Service without authorization from the respective agency.

Exceptions include:
1. When forced to land due to an emergency beyond the control of the operator;
2. At officially designated landing sites; or
3. An approved official business of the Federal Government.

b. Pilots are requested to maintain a minimum altitude of 2,000 feet above the surface of the following: National Parks, Monuments, Seashores, Lake shores, Recreation Areas and Scenic River ways administered by the National Park Service, National Wildlife Refuges, Big Game Refuges, Game Ranges and Wildlife Ranges administered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and Wilderness and Primitive areas administered by the U.S. Forest Service.

NOTE−FAA Advisory Circular AC 91−36, Visual Flight Rules (VFR) Flight Near Noise-Sensitive Areas, defines the surface of a national park area (including parks, forests, primitive areas, wilderness areas, recreational areas, national seashores, national monuments, national lake shores, and national wildlife refuge and range areas)as: the highest terrain within 2,000 feet laterally of the route of flight, or the upper-most rim of a canyon or valley.​

c. Federal statutes prohibit certain types of flight activity and/or provide altitude restrictions over designated U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest Service Areas. These designated areas, for example:Boundary Waters Canoe Wilderness Areas, Minnesota; Haleakala National Park, Hawaii; Yosemite National Park, California; and Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, are charted on Sectional Charts.

d. Federal regulations also prohibit airdrops by parachute or other means of persons, cargo, or objects from aircraft on lands administered by the three agencies without authorization from the respective agency.
Exceptions include:
1. Emergencies involving the safety of human life; or
2. Threat of serious property loss.

_______________________________

The Forest Service has established Motor Vehicle Use trails. Being a Motor Vehicle might give you some leeway to land on an approved MVU trail but it sounds like you would still be in hot water with the FAA for entering controlled airspace without permission.

Light Pans

 

[akflyer]

From the FAA AIM manual:


_______________________________

The Forest Service has established Motor Vehicle Use trails. Being a Motor Vehicle might give you some leeway to land on an approved MVU trail but it sounds like you would still be in hot water with the FAA for entering controlled airspace without permission.

Light Pans

As with anything, pay attention to words such as should and shall, or requested and required etc. Various parks have various "rules and regs", check on the ones your wanting to play in. Just because its a park or BLM land does not mean you can't play there. I do it A LOT.

 

[ncclaymaker]

Do a self-declared emergency over your cell phone. Fuel issues are always a problem with two-stroke power plants. Besides that, who is going to see the landing in the middle of nowhere. As long as one keeps out of controlled airspace and doesn't wander into a bombing range, the gov't could care less. With all of the federal budget cutbacks, unless you do something REALLY stupid, they don't put an errant ultralight as any type of high priority... in fact it would not go above -1 on the scale. Most of the airspace out in the western desert is not controlled airspace anyway.

I suggest that the real issue here is quite simple... operate in a safe, prudent manner and screw all of the over-regulation that we and our freedoms are being subjected to.

 

[medusa]

Ppg is under part 103, so not under FAA jurisdiction. You DO have to know what airspace you are in because there are restrictions that you have to be aware of. This information can be found on aviation charts. No licence is required for ppg or other ultralight part 103 vehicles. Training is encouraged but not mandatory and we train on the dry red lake.
Ultralight craft are designated as vehicles, so have much more leeway than general aviation aircraft. In other words, it's equivalent to an atv. As long as you know the regulations regarding airspace, you can fly most places that are not under prohibited airspace for ppg. For instance Gold Basin is not restricted airspace for ultralights, but crossing over into the LMRA, you have to be aware of the rules, because there are some "suggested" restrictions.
In our training, we do ground school and teach pilots where they can and cannot fly. Flying over or landing on BLM land is not prohibited under current regulations unless it is within restricted airspace. Recreational areas and national parks have some or many restrictions depending on location. The dry lake bed by Boulder City and El Mirage in California are popular ultralight locations along with many other locations.That being said..flying too close to a congested area, which can be a gathering of people, such as a prospecting outing, must be done with respect to the people or animals present. You usually stay over 500 feet away. Ppg pilots don't have a lot of restrictions, but must be courteous and knowledgeable.
We belong to the USPPA which provides our syllabus for training new pilots and updates us on any rule changes, so we are aware of them.
So, flying over, or landing in areas without restricted airspace is usually not a problem. However, flying over Tribal land is not a good idea without permission.