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  1. #16
    zw
    Jan 2015
    145
    162 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
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    Just took these quickly for this post. At the time we had no power will try to remember to take a video next time...

  2. #17
    us
    Gold Tramp

    Dec 2012
    1,031
    1943 times
    Thanks for sharin the pics. Its nice to see the workins.
    Gt....
    DizzyDigger likes this.

  3. #18
    us
    RingMaster

    Feb 2017
    SouthWest Arizona
    17
    8 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I just saw this thread this morning for the first time, so that's why I hadn't responded previously. I'm the "Williams" in the LNW Engineering & Mining. The picture by tamrock is a picture of our LC-TB32 Centrifugal Bowl at the Elko Expo, of course. In remaining in compliance with board rules, I don't wish to provide further "Sales" data on our equipment directly, but if you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer any of those for you.

    As a course of the initial discussion, Concentrator Bowls can be very efficient in concentration of volume ore slurry. There are many factors in the overall performance of the different iterations of manufactures of bowls. We own I believe just about every brand of concentration bowl that has been produced for the past 50 years, up to and including Falcon SB250 models. Each one has a specific function that the designer was trying to accomplish and at times may have been effective at addressing and others, not so much.

    At the end of the day and all the dust settles, regardless of the equipment and processes you employ in your mining circuit, things have to be able to run smoothly and effectively without complications. As I have learned the hard way, life is complicated enough out on the mine; you certainly don't need to incorporate complexity into your grinding and recovery circuit if you don't have to.

    Dwight Williams (Socorro)
    LNW Engineering & Mining
    pczim and tamrock like this.

  4. #19
    Charter Member
    us
    Period Six Mining and Exploration, LLC

    Aug 2010
    Southeast Arizona
    2,985
    4353 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
    I just saw this thread this morning for the first time, so that's why I hadn't responded previously. I'm the "Williams" in the LNW Engineering & Mining. The picture by tamrock is a picture of our LC-TB32 Centrifugal Bowl at the Elko Expo, of course. In remaining in compliance with board rules, I don't wish to provide further "Sales" data on our equipment directly, but if you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer any of those for you.

    As a course of the initial discussion, Concentrator Bowls can be very efficient in concentration of volume ore slurry. There are many factors in the overall performance of the different iterations of manufactures of bowls. We own I believe just about every brand of concentration bowl that has been produced for the past 50 years, up to and including Falcon SB250 models. Each one has a specific function that the designer was trying to accomplish and at times may have been effective at addressing and others, not so much.

    At the end of the day and all the dust settles, regardless of the equipment and processes you employ in your mining circuit, things have to be able to run smoothly and effectively without complications. As I have learned the hard way, life is complicated enough out on the mine; you certainly don't need to incorporate complexity into your grinding and recovery circuit if you don't have to.

    Dwight Williams (Socorro)
    LNW Engineering & Mining
    Dwight,

    I been a professional mi e for nearly 25 years now. In that time I have seen alot of things come and alot of things go. And I can honestly say much of it was "miners" mining miners with the latest and greatest gold getting piece of equipment.

    Now if what pczim says with having to add mercury to the system is true, then you should probably look into that as it is not operating efficiently.

    I know a crew here in Arizona that were running the iCON 150 and losing gold that was recovered in a shaker table that was the last piece of equipment in the system. A few changes where made and they were pretty much catching everything in the iCON. I believe they have stepped up to the Falcon now.
    Mining is how I make my living. I turn mountains into dust on a daily basis.

  5. #20
    us
    RingMaster

    Feb 2017
    SouthWest Arizona
    17
    8 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Machinist View Post
    Dwight,

    I been a professional mi e for nearly 25 years now. In that time I have seen alot of things come and alot of things go. And I can honestly say much of it was "miners" mining miners with the latest and greatest gold getting piece of equipment.

    Now if what pczim says with having to add mercury to the system is true, then you should probably look into that as it is not operating efficiently.

    I know a crew here in Arizona that were running the iCON 150 and losing gold that was recovered in a shaker table that was the last piece of equipment in the system. A few changes where made and they were pretty much catching everything in the iCON. I believe they have stepped up to the Falcon now.
    I'm not understanding your posting entirely with regards to the "Miners" mining miners in this context as well as the reference to "pczim" commenting in a previous posting regarding someone using mercury in their mining operation to regards to my previous answering someone's question.

    Can you elaborate as to what you are referencing for better clarity?

  6. #21
    Charter Member
    us
    Period Six Mining and Exploration, LLC

    Aug 2010
    Southeast Arizona
    2,985
    4353 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
    I'm not understanding your posting entirely with regards to the "Miners" mining miners in this context as well as the reference to "pczim" commenting in a previous posting regarding someone using mercury in their mining operation to regards to my previous answering someone's question.

    Can you elaborate as to what you are referencing for better clarity?
    Dwight,

    As for "miners mining miners" I guess I gotta put it bluntly. Alot ofnleopel out there try to convince miners that their product is the best game in town when in all actuality its crap. So the miner lays put the cash for the product that is crap and gets the shaft in the end.

    Tamrock posted this up and pczim said he has four of these in operation in Africa that need mercury to be effective. So if a centrifugal concentrator needs mercury added to be effective, then it's a piece of crap.

    I've been around centrifugal concentrators a long time. While the concept is sound, very few actually work as advertised.

    Clear as mud?
    Mining is how I make my living. I turn mountains into dust on a daily basis.

  7. #22

    Apr 2013
    308
    185 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
    I just saw this thread this morning for the first time, so that's why I hadn't responded previously. I'm the "Williams" in the LNW Engineering & Mining. The picture by tamrock is a picture of our LC-TB32 Centrifugal Bowl at the Elko Expo, of course. In remaining in compliance with board rules, I don't wish to provide further "Sales" data on our equipment directly, but if you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer any of those for you.

    As a course of the initial discussion, Concentrator Bowls can be very efficient in concentration of volume ore slurry. There are many factors in the overall performance of the different iterations of manufactures of bowls. We own I believe just about every brand of concentration bowl that has been produced for the past 50 years, up to and including Falcon SB250 models. Each one has a specific function that the designer was trying to accomplish and at times may have been effective at addressing and others, not so much.

    At the end of the day and all the dust settles, regardless of the equipment and processes you employ in your mining circuit, things have to be able to run smoothly and effectively without complications. As I have learned the hard way, life is complicated enough out on the mine; you certainly don't need to incorporate complexity into your grinding and recovery circuit if you don't have to.

    Dwight Williams (Socorro)
    LNW Engineering & Mining
    Welcome

    Looks like the one Posted just above is a knudson style, However looks like yours has a spiral shape, can you elaborate on how well it works on ultra fine where that gravity number is so very critical? I know a lot of people swear by Neff bowls.
    Socorro likes this.

  8. #23
    us
    RingMaster

    Feb 2017
    SouthWest Arizona
    17
    8 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Machinist View Post
    Dwight,

    As for "miners mining miners" I guess I gotta put it bluntly. Alot ofnleopel out there try to convince miners that their product is the best game in town when in all actuality its crap. So the miner lays put the cash for the product that is crap and gets the shaft in the end.

    Tamrock posted this up and pczim said he has four of these in operation in Africa that need mercury to be effective. So if a centrifugal concentrator needs mercury added to be effective, then it's a piece of crap.

    I've been around centrifugal concentrators a long time. While the concept is sound, very few actually work as advertised.

    Clear as mud?
    Thanks for your reply. I got the word "blunt", but not sure it's full intent and meaning. I'm assuming you are referring to my involvement in building mining equipment and our equipment as crap if I am understanding your "Blunt" aspect in your response. If you would reference this original thread, which Tamrock posted, I was simply responding to an already started topic, only to provide a point that I "Knew" who made the equipment that was seen at the Elko Mine Expo.

    With respect to a centrifuge concentrator needing mercury to actually function correctly, I would agree on that point, if you are needing mercury for recovery, you are not using a properly designed centrifuge. I would add however that centrifuge concentrators of dubious designs and quality are being used throughout Africa collecting mercury from the soil. The ground is so highly contaminated with past mining that the ore being ran through the centrifuges are collecting the mercury as a by-product since the Mercury cannot escape just as the gold cannot.

    Secondly, I don't see where pczim stated that our equipment was using mercury unless I am missing something somewhere. I personally am not aware of any of our centrifuge bowls being used with mercury for gold recovery. In the proper conditions, such as in a ball mill slurry at 200 mesh grind, our concentrator bowls will separate up to 500 mesh (-35 micron), depending upon the material being recovered and the gangue which it's being separated from.

  9. #24
    us
    RingMaster

    Feb 2017
    SouthWest Arizona
    17
    8 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by StreamlineGold View Post
    Welcome

    Looks like the one Posted just above is a knudson style, However looks like yours has a spiral shape, can you elaborate on how well it works on ultra fine where that gravity number is so very critical? I know a lot of people swear by Neff bowls.
    Thank you StreamlineGold, it's always nice to find a group of folks with similar interest, especially in the mining world.

    There have been dozens of folks who have attempted or successfully made some type of centrifugal bowls over the past 60 plus years, all with varying success. Until recently, Larry Neff's Neffco bowls have been the mainstream system that has been readily available over the years. My first centrifuge bowl was a Neffco back about ten years ago and was using it in my ball mill circuit.

    I plan on providing some very detailed information very soon as to the differences in the bowl designs across the board so that it better explains how we came about the design that we have. But for ease of context, you have low and high gravity bowls, and ours as well as Neffco's is considered a low gravity bowl, they run around 6g's, compared to 150-300g's, in a pressurized fluidization bed design.

    The Neffco's bowl is a single, continuous riffle in the bowl, about 100 feet of riffles to be exact. Ours is a 5-Lead riffle, 8-Lead for our Triple Bowl, each riffle composing of approximately 19.4 feet in length. Regardless of salesmanship and advertising smoke, the ability to have more than a single riffle is inherently better. It is an ability to, in basic visual terms to go from a fine pitch screw to a coarse pitch screw, a wedge so to speak. The significant difficulty with any centrifugal system is having a means of the material not to pack, which will cause you to lose your fluidization bed in the riffles. By increasing the angle of the riffles, which is where the multi-leads come into play, forces the material to move more effectively along the riffles while rotating, thereby preventing the packing issue. As I said, through all the smoke and mirrors of salesmanship, the increased riffles are always better, but very, very difficult to manufacture in production.

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    (Gold recovered with Bowl)

    It took us over $140K to develop just the bowl section to provide an entirely manufactured system in-house. I'm a Tool & Die machinist by trade, so, fortunately, we can make all the molds in-house; otherwise, the cost would have been about $300K more. Working with my cousin, who is a mechanical engineer at Nasa and directly with 3M, gave me some critical information we were needing. Along with a retired engineer who worked on the Space Shuttle, came up with a way to reliably bond and install the 5 spiral leads into our bowl. And yes, I thought for a few months that this damn thing was going to Mars, unbelievably complicated initially to make this design. I have built components for the Space Shuttle and various other aerospace and space vehicles over the years, and this is was much more challenging to come to the final product. There's a reason why gold's value is so high.

    I plan on providing some in-depth information along with pictures to give people the visual difference in the designs. A significant byproduct of the 5-lead bowl, unintentional, but very nice is that you can clean the bowl out about five times faster than a single lead bowl. Since you are only rinsing 19.4 feet per riffle, rather than over 100 feet.

    To address the issue with extremely small gold recovery, 200-500 mesh gold, you MUST have a fluidization bed always working. If you have any compaction or loss of your fluidization bed in your centrifugal bowl, you will immediately lose any fine particle gold. We built this design specifically for the ability to recover down to 500 mesh gold.
    Last edited by Socorro; Jul 17, 2019 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Added Fine Gold Recovery Pic

  10. #25
    us
    RingMaster

    Feb 2017
    SouthWest Arizona
    17
    8 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Microscopic Gold Recovery Clarification

    I have received some PM's from folks calling me out that they don't believe you can separate pure gold with a centrifugal bowl, as in my pictures in my previous post.

    They are correct, in that I failed to provide details on the process, sorry about that, hey, at least people are reading.

    The pictures I posted are from the gold that was recovered from concentrate from the bowl. Then those were run on our prototype table to separate the gold from the heavies. So, No, you are not going to get pure gold out of a concentrator. This has been an ongoing effort for over 10 years to be able to separate 800-1000 mesh gold by gravity separation.

    So there is no confusion, our concentrator bowl did extract this gold from the head ore, but it was cleaned up on our own table to obtain the clean gold.

  11. #26
    Charter Member
    us
    Period Six Mining and Exploration, LLC

    Aug 2010
    Southeast Arizona
    2,985
    4353 times
    Prospecting
    800-100] mesh? Sub micron by gravity? I gotta call bull. I won't do it by PM, I'll do it in front of everybody.

    You said you learned from the flotation masters at Freeport? You wanna take a wild guess who I work for and where?

    So where did you learn? Baghdad? Sierritta? Sahaurita? Morenci?
    Last edited by Treasure_Hunter; Jul 18, 2019 at 11:03 PM.
    Mining is how I make my living. I turn mountains into dust on a daily basis.

  12. #27
    us
    RingMaster

    Feb 2017
    SouthWest Arizona
    17
    8 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Machinist View Post
    800-100] mesh? Sub micron by gravity? I gotta call bullshit. I won't do it by PM, I'll do it in front of everybody.

    You said you learned from the flotation masters at Freeport? You wanna take a wild guess who I work for and where?

    So where did you learn? Baghdad? Sierritta? Sahaurita? Morenci?
    ? ? ?

  13. #28
    Charter Member
    us
    Period Six Mining and Exploration, LLC

    Aug 2010
    Southeast Arizona
    2,985
    4353 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
    ? ? ?
    Dwight,

    There arenalotnif things here that just don't add up. You put questions up in response to what I posted which is exactly what I read on your website under your blog. You said in that blog you learned from the flotation masters at Freeport. I simply asked which mine you learned at and listed a few

    I quite literally grew up in the mining industry. My father was a miner. My Grand father was a miner. I can trace my mining heritage all the way back to the Corwall miners from England a long time ago.

    Freeport laid a very disgusting amount if money on the table to bring me to this side in the country in 2007. I have been doing hardrock mining on and off for nearly 25 years now.

    So I tell you what. In interests of being fair, let's see if your willing to put your money where your mouth is. We will be in production soon with our own mine. So bring your equipment and met us put it through its paces. If it stands up and does what you say it will, we will sing it's praises. If it doesn't, well.......

    I am a well respected member here and my word Carrie's quite a bit of weight. You game?
    Mining is how I make my living. I turn mountains into dust on a daily basis.

  14. #29
    us
    RingMaster

    Feb 2017
    SouthWest Arizona
    17
    8 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Machinist View Post
    I am a well respected member here and my word Carrie's quite a bit of weight. You game?
    Entertaining for sure.

  15. #30
    us
    Gold Tramp

    Dec 2012
    1,031
    1943 times
    How long of actuall hands on work at floatation makes one a master and does tool size matter.
    I like that orange machine it looks like it would speed up my op. never used a bowl but wouldnt kick stones at one either.

    Were just makin cons MM its gonna get leached or amalgamated anyways. correct me if im wrong, were all miners here, some do more work some make more money.

    Also theres a big differance in a person workin for a company mining.
    Heck try mining where you have to get gold every week for pay.


    So why the big stink?
    Gt.......
    Last edited by gold tramp; Jul 20, 2019 at 02:46 PM.

 

 
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