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  1. #31
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by embrym View Post
    Might have news soon on the Dents Run 6 tonnes of Gold and 2.5 tonnes of silver. Est value: 450 to 600 million dollars.[/COLOR]
    This demonstrates exactly how legends grow and why they have little credibility.

    First, we haven't even established gold was found. Second, now it's went from qty 52 bars at 50 lbs each to 12,000 pounds (6 tons) of gold!

    To add insult to injury, we've now even added on 5,000 lbs of silver just for a little icing on the top! Might as well throw in 5000 carats of diamond and 5 tons of platinum just to really fatten up the legend!

    Why don't we all sit back and wait for the official communications to be released between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the court. It sounds like it could take a year or two. As a previous poster said, we can't put credibility in what the interested parties are saying as they are controlling the narrative and are now remaining silent, which is just ever so rich giving they were the ones demanding transparency from the DNR and FBI.
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 19, 2020 at 07:05 PM.

  2. #32

    Dec 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep View Post
    This demonstrates exactly how legends grow and why they have little credibility.

    First, we haven't even established gold was found. Second, now it's went from qty 52 bars at 50 lbs each to 12,000 pounds (6 tons) of gold!

    To add insult to injury, we've now even added on 5,000 lbs of silver just for a little icing on the top! Might as well throw in 5000 carats of diamond and 5 tons of platinum just to really fatten up the legend!

    Why don't we all sit back and wait for the official communications to be released between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the court. It sounds like it could take a year or two. As a previous poster said, we can't put credibility in what the interested parties are saying as they are controlling the narrative and are now remaining silent, which is just ever so rich giving they were the ones demanding transparency from the DNR and FBI.
    Both the FBI and DNR are stalling the release of the records. The FBI said it would take 4 years. That's why the group is forced to take it to federal court.

    There comes a point when it becomes safe to assume something of great value probably was recovered. The neighbors heard loud machinery coming from the hill all night after the FBI told the group they were going to call it a day. Then two armored vehicles were spotted entering the operation area. The FBI closed all the roads. Now they're using every tool at their disposal to prevent the release of the records. Those things with everything else begin to paint a pretty convincing picture, to my mind. But yes, we'll have to wait and see.

    The FBI has clearly been prone to abusing their power these days. Its a mystery to me why anyone would take their word for anything, especially when pertaining to giant loads of gold bullion.
    Last edited by tseek7; Jan 20, 2020 at 12:43 PM.

  3. #33
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    TunaTonker

    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    Both the FBI and DNR are stalling the release of the records. The FBI said it would take 4 years. That's why the group is forced to take it to federal court.
    Again, assumes facts not on record.

    1st: In other posts, he was quoted about a year for a smaller sample and up to 4 years for the entire file. For a reference, I once did a freedom of information request on the output of nuclear power plant (I wanted to know what was in the steam it was releasing). It took TWO years to get. So there is no factual evidence anyone is stalling.

    2nd: Federal court? That's been quoted so many times, people are now taking that as fact. I have seen no evidence it was brought to Federal court, the only evidence of any preceedings we have is the instant appeal which was in the Pennsylvania court off appeals, NOT federal court.
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 20, 2020 at 01:18 PM.

  4. #34
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    There comes a point when it becomes safe to assume something of great value probably was recovered.
    We are far, far away from being safe to assume something, or anything of value for that matter, was recovered.
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 20, 2020 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #35

    Dec 2019
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    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/civil-w...-pennsylvania/

    I mean, its CBS News, for whatever that's worth to you. I'd like to believe they wouldn't make the entire thing up about the account they received from the neighbors.

    As far as all the legal proceedings etc, I'd rather not discuss it anymore. Let them talk more about it if they want to.

  6. #36

    Dec 2019
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    100 times
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep View Post
    We are far, far away from being safe to assume something or anything of value for that matter was recovered.
    Why would they need to keep operating throughout the night?

    Why would they need two armored vehicles?

    Why would they close the roads?

  7. #37
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    TunaTonker

    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    The neighbors heard loud machinery coming from the hill all night after the FBI told the group they were going to call it a day. Then two armored vehicles were spotted entering the operation area.
    Re-read the eyewitness, it wasn't all night, they stated until about 2am. Just as reasonable was they were going to call it quits and they too were excited, (we as treasure hunters can relate) so some continued to dig.

    Armored trucks was already called into question by previous posters in other threads. We have dozens of pictures of the site and staging area, but absent are any photo's of armored trucks. Furthermore, what does armored trucks mean? Armored cash carrying trucks, or armored assault trucks? Could they also have been mis indentified as maintenance, tool or transport trucks. Of course they could, case after case has shown time and again eye witnessing testimony is unreliable and subject to confirmation bias. One local resident, absent any direct evidence, even stated they KNEW gold was found, well, just because it had to be...

    Bottom line, we need to wait for the communications between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the appeals court. That may not be the end, it may open more avenues that need to be explored, but for now, it's the next bit of evidence we are waiting for...

  8. #38

    Dec 2019
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    100 times
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep View Post
    Re-read the eyewitness, it wasn't all night, they stated until about 2am. Just as reasonable was they were going to call it quits and they too were excited, (we as treasure hunters can relate) so some continued to dig.

    Armored trucks was already called into question by previous posters in other threads. We have dozens of pictures of the site and staging area, but absent are any photo's of armored trucks. Furthermore, what does armored trucks mean? Armored cash carrying trucks, or armored assault trucks? Could they also have been mis indentified as maintenance, tool or transport trucks. Of course they could, case after case has shown time and again eye witnessing testimony is unreliable and subject to confirmation bias. One local resident, absent any direct evidence, even stated they KNEW gold was found, well, just because it had to be...

    Bottom line, we need to wait for the communications between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the appeals court. That may not be the end, it may open more avenues that need to be explored, but for now, it's the next bit of evidence we are waiting for...
    Honestly I fear the truth may never come out of this. Why oh why didn't FindersKeepers get everything on paper. Potentially very tragic mistake indeed.
    Last edited by tseek7; Jan 20, 2020 at 01:28 PM.

  9. #39
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    Pennsylvania’s Right to Know Law – Treasure Hunting

    On October 24, 2019, the Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court issued a decision regarding Pennsylvania’s Right to Know Law (RTKL) and treasure hunters seeking information from the government relevant to a potential found treasure.[1] After conducting an in camera review of the requested documents, the court determined that these documents were subject to disclosure under the RTKL and ordered their production.
    The petitioner, Cluck, is an attorney representing Finders Keepers, LLC, a company specializing in treasure hunting. The company believed it had found a Civil War-era cache of gold in the Dent’s Run area of Pennsylvania, so it met with the FBI and an Assistant United States Attorney in early 2018 to discuss the potential find. This purported cache, and the legend thereof, date back to the summer of 1863 when Union members were transporting 26 gold bars, each weighing 50 pounds, from West Virginia to the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, this amount of gold in today’s currency would be worth $27,381,120. The legend is that these members were ambushed in transit and the gold was then lost and allegedly buried. Therefore, if the gold did exist, the federal government would continue to lay claim to it; hence why Finders Keepers met with the FBI.
    The FBI then initiated an investigation and met with the company at the purported location of the cache with one of its contractors. A few months after the initial meeting, the FBI told the company that its contractor had located a large area of metal, coming in at an estimated seven to nine tons in mass. After obtaining a federal warrant, the FBI entered the state forest property in Dent’s Run with the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR) to excavate the area. The FBI claimed that it did not find anything during the excavation.
    After hearing this news, Finders Keepers, through its attorney, filed a request for records with DCNR under the RTKL. Cluck sought all communications between DCNR and the FBI pertaining to the excavation of the Dent’s Run area. On October 15, 2018, DCNR denied the request, claiming an exemption from RTKL disclosure since the records had been sealed by federal court order. Accompanying DCNR’s decision was a letter from an Assistant United States Attorney stating that the FBI’s investigation was ongoing, and that all affiliated documents were under federal court seal. Undeterred, Cluck appealed DCNR’s decision to the Office of Open Records (OOR). In the appeal, DCNR’s Chief Counsel filed an affidavit indicating that she had been personally served with the federal court’s order, and that it had been filed under seal. The Chief Counsel indicated that she had been told that all communications relating to the investigation were confidential. On the basis of this affidavit, and without reviewing the federal order in question, the OOR affirmed the denial of Cluck’s request for records.
    Cluck then filed an appeal with the Commonwealth Court, seeking in camera review of the federal order to determine whether the communications between DCNR and the FBI were actually exempt from disclosure under the RTKL. In camera review occurs where requested documents are produced for the court’s review, usually under seal, so the court can examine the documents to determine whether a claim of privilege or exemption is legally appropriate. DNCR complied with this request for production and the Commonwealth Court accordingly reviewed the federal order under seal.
    The court recognized that the purpose of the RTKL is to “empower citizens by affording them access to information concerning the activities of their government[,]”[2] and that the RTKL operates in favor of disclosure. Ordinarily, a record is subject to disclosure unless otherwise protected by exemption, privilege, or judicial decree or order. As such, the agency attempting to deny the request bears the burden of proof to show that one of these exceptions to disclosure applies. Upon review of the order in question, the court determined that the order did not shield or otherwise bar disclosure of any communications between the FBI and DCNR regarding the excavation at Dent’s Run aside from the order itself since it had been filed under seal. The court went on to state that the order did “not provide any conceivable basis for the withholding of the requested records under the RTKL[.]”[3] Therefore, the court determined that DCNR had neglected to prove that the requested records at issue were exempt from disclosure. DCNR was then directed to produce the requested communications.
    The case demonstrates that, despite the existence of a sealed federal order, the content of the judicial order itself determines whether a record requested under the RTKL is actually subject to disclosure. In other words, state agencies involved with investigations at the federal level cannot necessarily fail to disclose communications regarding such investigations merely by invoking the presence of a federal order sealing the investigation. As this decision illustrates, disclosure of the public’s records remains the “gold” standard of the Commonwealth’s Right to Know Law.
    [1] Cluck v. Dep’t of Conservation & Natural Resources, No. 16 C.D. 2018 (Pa. Commw. Ct. 2019).
    [1] Id., at 5.
    [1] Id., at 6-7.
    With contribution from Sarah Rothermel, J.D. Widener Law Commonwealth.
    Posted on January 9, 2020 in Articles: Right to Know & Media Law







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  10. #40
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    TunaTonker

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    Thank you Finders, this court summary was also posted earlier in this thread. You won the appeal in the State Court of Pennsylvania for them to release the communications between the FBI and the DNR fall of 2019, congrats.

    Have you received their communications yet, and if so, are you willing to the share them? Though we appreciate you coming in here, an update would have been deeply appreciated by all. Let's not forget a large argument for your appeal was a call for openness and transparency by the FBI and the DNR. We trust you will extend the same level of transparency you were demanding of them unto us.
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 24, 2020 at 12:09 AM.

  11. #41
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    Owner

    Apr 2007
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    I posted this info to show other treasure hunters that has a problem with a government agency that says their files are sealed by a Federal Judge. Don't give up , there are ways to get the info in the files.

  12. #42
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinderKeeper View Post
    I posted this info to show other treasure hunters that has a problem with a government agency that says their files are sealed by a Federal Judge. Don't give up , there are ways to get the info in the files.
    I'll take your non response to my questions as a affirmation that you don't want to share any new information, the case is now adjudicated as being available to the public per the Penn. Court of appeals, so there is no gag order on you sharing the information. Now that the ruling has been handed down, the information is available to anyone seeking it, so i'll put in an FOIA request. It may take awhile to get, but i'll publish it on here so that we can all get the answers and truth we are all eager to find out.
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 25, 2020 at 10:43 PM.

  13. #43
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    Sir

    Sep 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by releventchair View Post
    Hey , I tried to take it easy about my and others Dents Run rambling speculations....
    We all like to thank you for that.

  14. #44
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    Let us all feel sorry for the horses who carry all those heavy bars of gold.

  15. #45
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    Sir

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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    Honestly I fear the truth may never come out of this. Why oh why didn't FindersKeepers get everything on paper. Potentially very tragic mistake indeed.
    Getting permission and legal contracts with private landowners is hard enough, but dealing with the states and federal government by oneself may potentially very tragic without the best lawyer that you can afford with a solid contract who is looking out for your best interest. All of us want FindersKeepers to answer your above great interest question. The best two courses in college were contract laws. Now the information comes in handy.

 

 
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