Just How Much Did They Have to Bury?
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  1. #1

    Dec 2019
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    Just How Much Did They Have to Bury?

    How much gold did these guys have to bury? I'm just curious about where the gold came from, estimates of quantity and whether they buried more than just precious metals and guns. How about precious gemstones? Could they have buried platinum bars as well?

    Also, are these guys still around, waiting in the shadows for the right time to dig up the treasure and fight another civil war? I ask because sometimes I think that if Trump happens to be removed or if they go for our guns etc there may be another civil war that takes place. The nation is deeply divided these days, right down the middle. Not trying to get too political here though.

    And what happened to all the maps?
    Last edited by tseek7; Jan 16, 2020 at 08:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Charter Member
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    "WP"

    May 2012
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    Depends on what accounts you believe.
    Why believe anything was buried?
    Why believe anything is buried still?
    Is any written or spoken source credible?
    Or any map(s)?

    Is the following account true? Or was the K.G.C. connection only alleged?

    [ The K.G.C., which boasted some 3,000 members in Baltimore alone, was known to collect dues and initiation fees in the form of gold coinage. Some of that money was set aside (buried) in anticipation of funding Latin American expeditions that never materialized.]

    https://www.legendsofamerica.com/trs-kgctreasure/

    1864 federal persecution put the ca-bosh on activity above ground.
    Rumors of funding being for another civil war are just that. (?)
    That was the passion of a few agitators and not the K.G.C. mission. (Per me.)
    Around/after 64 with war conditions and forecast , where to relocate alleged caches out of harms way among uncertain conditions? And how to do so without getting noticed?
    Folks couldn't just disappear during the war during uncertain times and reappear without a very good cover.
    Eyes abounded. High alert and suspicious type eyes too...
    Last edited by releventchair; Jan 16, 2020 at 09:44 PM.

  3. #3

    Dec 2019
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    So the whole thing is total speculation. That cache Finders Keepers located that ended up being recovered, claimed and covered up by the feds seemed to have been a KGC cache. I have a feeling there are caches like that in other places and perhaps much larger. Just a feeling though.

  4. #4
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    So the whole thing is total speculation. That cache Finders Keepers located that ended up being recovered, claimed and covered up by the feds seemed to have been a KGC cache. I have a feeling there are caches like that in other places and perhaps much larger. Just a feeling though.
    The cache you speak of (The Dent's Run Gold), no proof has ever been presented that the gold was found, let alone recovered. I've read through every thread on this forums about it, asked many questions of the "finder", and no proof was ever provided. Proof means tangible, visible, testable and verifiable facts. There are none. When I pressed the question, he never claimed to have ever dug a single bar of gold nor even ever claimed to lay his eyes on the gold (he did try to say there was gold on the drill bit when drilling for it, but he never provided any pictures or samples). The FBI showing up and digging means only one thing, they showed up and were digging. Their statement was they didn't find anything. That is ALL we know, period, the rest is speculation and likely, wishful thinking....
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 17, 2020 at 12:06 AM.

  5. #5

    Dec 2019
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    100 times
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep View Post
    The cache you speak of (The Dent's Run Gold) No proof has ever been presented that the gold was found, let alone recovered. I've read through every thread on this forums about it, asked many questions of the "finder", and no proof was ever provided. Proof means tangible, visible, testable and verifiable facts. There are none. When I pressed the question, he never claimed to have ever dug a single bar of gold nor even ever claimed to lay his eyes on the gold (he did try to say there was gold on the drill bit when drilling for it, but he never provided any pictures or samples). The FBI showing up and digging means only one thing, they showed up and were digging. There statement was they didn't find anything. That is ALL we know, period, the rest is speculation and likely, wishful thinking....
    The fact that the FBI showed up and dug in the first place to me seems to mean that they had the necessary amount of confidence in the target location to gain the approval and funding to excavate it. The combination of the original results and the results the FBI were able to produce using much more advanced technology (a gravimeter w/ a PHD operator if I remember correctly) is pretty compelling in my opinion. Either way its more than just wishful thinking, in my view. The FBI had a lot of reasons to cover the whole thing up and not give Finders Keepers diddly-squat. It would have been clear to them that the group was going to go around spreading news about it to the whole world. That would create a frenzy of people digging dangerous pits all over public and private lands, the risk of priceless historical artifacts being dug up and lost forever etc. Including the fact that the gov would obviously prefer to locate and recover all remaining buried treasure for themselves. Not saying I agree though.

    Imagine how stringent the process must have been to gain approval for something like this. The FBI would not have shown up and dug if they hadn't been able to confirm the target location to a very high degree of certainty. I would say that is for sure...
    Last edited by tseek7; Jan 17, 2020 at 12:08 AM.

  6. #6

    Dec 2019
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    100 times
    I would like to say one other thing. Just because someone does not provide tangible evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are of course a lot of fears some people have about proving this kind of thing to anyone. Even to strangers over the internet. These days if people are determined enough, they can find you if you happen to slip up in certain ways. I'm not saying that's what happened, only that the possibility has to be considered.
    Last edited by tseek7; Jan 17, 2020 at 12:13 AM.

  7. #7
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    The fact that the FBI showed up and dug in the first place to me seems to mean that they had the necessary amount of confidence in the target location to gain the approval and funding to excavate it. The combination of the original results and the results the FBI were able to produce using much more advanced technology (a gravimeter w/ a PHD operator if I remember correctly) is pretty compelling in my opinion. Either way its more than just wishful thinking, in my view. The FBI had a lot of reasons to cover the whole thing up and not give Finders Keepers diddly-squat. It would have been clear to them that the group was going to go around spreading news about it to the whole world. That would create a frenzy of people digging dangerous pits all over public and private lands, the risk of priceless historical artifacts being dug up and lost forever etc. Including the fact that the gov would obviously prefer to locate and recover all remaining buried treasure for themselves. Not saying I agree though.

    Imagine how stringent the process must have been to gain approval for something like this. The FBI would not have shown up and dug if they hadn't been able to confirm the target location to a very high degree of certainty. I would say that is for sure...
    I mean this in the most respectful way, the only verifiable fact you state is the first one, "The FBI showed up and dug", every single thing else is speculation and confirmation bias. Original results? There are no original results, the OP stated he never dug, layed eyes on or possessed a single piece of gold, period.

  8. #8
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    Just because someone does not provide tangible evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen .


    Exactly, you've made my point. The inverse is just as true: "Just because someone does not provide tangible evidence doesn't mean it DID happen"

    That is why you can't claim the Gold was found when you have zero verifiable evidence.

    I realize you think it was found and that's your choice, but that doesn't bring us any closer to the truth.
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 17, 2020 at 12:24 AM.

  9. #9

    Dec 2019
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    100 times
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep View Post
    Exactly, you've made my point. The inverse is just as true: "Just because someone does not provide tangible evidence doesn't mean it DID happen"

    That is why you can't claim the Gold was found when you have zero verifiable evidence.

    I realize you think it was found and that's your choice, but that doesn't bring us any closer to the truth.
    Well they had used their locating methods. From what I remember Finders Keepers uses a combination of tools to locate. Apparently whatever findings they had presented to the FBI were compelling enough to prompt an official investigation. That actually means a lot. I mean, think of the money they spent just to go out and confirm the initial results. Then they decided to pursue it? Hmmm... I don't know. To me that means something.

    We can't forget we're talking about the Federal Bureau of Investigation here. We're talking about gravimeters, $200k equipment. We're talking about PHDs operating that equipment. There is at least enough evidence to provide a high level of certainty that the FBI felt there was a very good chance of the cache actually being there.

    But yes, you're right. This is just one man's opinion.
    Last edited by tseek7; Jan 17, 2020 at 01:12 AM.

  10. #10

    Mar 2015
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    For me I cannot give an informed comment about if there was a treasure there or not?

    In fact I think many people are missing the point. Regardless if this alleged treasure existed or not?

    The conduct of FBI in this whole sorry saga on how they "conducted themselves in this court appointed operation" allowing themselves to begin with leaving a question of FBI integrity? The FBI is world famous policing organisation and integrity is one of the core values of such an organization from the time of its inception.

    Many questions should indeed be asked?

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Jan 17, 2020 at 04:02 AM.

  11. #11
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
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    Kanacki

    it should be clear to even a biased observer where the corruption lies
    the solution is pretty simple, candor - but once a demonstrated liar . . . . ?

  12. #12
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,908
    7555 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    ... The FBI is world famous policing organisation and integrity is one of the core values of such an organization from the time of its inception. ...

    Kanacki
    Ha ha - good one, K.
    Pinos Altos Mountain Goats warranty statement:
    "Prove us wrong"

  13. #13
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    Well they had used their locating methods. From what I remember Finders Keepers uses a combination of tools to locate. Apparently whatever findings they had presented to the FBI were compelling enough to prompt an official investigation. That actually means a lot. I mean, think of the money they spent just to go out and confirm the initial results. Then they decided to pursue it? Hmmm... I don't know. To me that means something.

    We can't forget we're talking about the Federal Bureau of Investigation here. We're talking about gravimeters, $200k equipment. We're talking about PHDs operating that equipment. There is at least enough evidence to provide a high level of certainty that the FBI felt there was a very good chance of the cache actually being there.

    But yes, you're right. This is just one man's opinion.
    Respectfully, we are getting deeply lost into assumption and speculation. We're quoting that PHD's were using 200K machines. He posted pictures, they showed a guy with a standard metal detector in one of them. And anyway, those "200K" machines are as reliable as a $5 fortune teller. If those were accurate, for the number of false positives they give, there'd be 1000's of treasure hunters digging up long lost lengedary gold caches. Oak island would be long ago solved, yet we are on season 7, 8? (Oak Island had scans of the island that showed gold on it, but alas no gold has been found). A machine only gives a small clue as to dig, but the only way to gain evidence is to dig. Which he did NOT dig anything, period. The "Finder" admitted he never dug up a cache, never laid eyes on the cache and was never in possession of the cache. FULL STOP.

    I was in the Military for 6 years and in LE for 12 years and the fact is many are making assumptions of the FBI's scope, intent, purpose and results. I can't tell you how many times we did field exercises largely just for training purposes. The "Finder" admitted that he contacted many agencies about his "find". It's just as likely the FBI thought it'd be great to hit the field for some forensics training and if they turn something up, great, if not, oh well. All we know is they came, dug and said they found nothing. The cost of this dig was miniscule, FBI agents get paid whether they are sitting on a bench or out in the field. They brought in a backhoe and an operator which is a miniscule cost. That is ALL we know.

    This conspiracy theory that the gov't is hiding it for the money and to not pay out a finders fee's is ludicrous. The value of that gold is about .0000001 percent of our GDP which is 20,494,000,000,000 The Gold wouldn't even pay the FBI's entire payroll for an hour....

    I'm not saying don't ask questions or don't go searching for cache's. I'm simply saying don't say it was found when there is not one piece of tangible evidence from the original "finder" nor the FBI. Leave the speculation at home where it belongs and get out the shovel!
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 17, 2020 at 11:23 AM.

  14. #14
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tseek7 View Post
    So the whole thing is total speculation. That cache Finders Keepers located that ended up being recovered, claimed and covered up by the feds seemed to have been a KGC cache. I have a feeling there are caches like that in other places and perhaps much larger. Just a feeling though.
    What's total speculation?
    The K.G.C. existed.
    Collected dues.
    Had sights set on a more Southerly empire/country/ place of enterprise.

    As war continued , the current war may be expected to be more of a concern than a future one as far as survival not only of an individual or group ....But the "nation" that would follow war.

    Who knew what the results of the war was going to be?
    What would become of the subjugated? No one knew for sure who would walk free and at will to make a recovery. Or who would own what land a cache was on even....

    We have hindsight as to which direction certain individuals headed at wars end with their well being and that of a governments tangibles. Well,part of those tangibles.
    Does that fit with the K.G.C.'s orientation/direction of mission?
    I'm not saying they are tied , but heading North was not the popular idea ....

    Let's imagine (yep , downright speculation now) you are treasurer of multiple dues collecting treasurers for a group with designs on Southern (beyond U.S. borders) expansion of at least influence in business.
    With federal government persecution of your organisation (1864) you are being conservative in displaying your treasury and where and how it exists.
    The war rages.
    Where would you secure your responsibility of that wealth where it could be accessed regardless of the wars outcome?
    You don't know if any of your party will be at liberty to do so on U.S. soil. Not in the short term anyways.

    The mission was not future war (per my opinion based on a war already going on with unknown results still) but still Southern region /circle. Those it's location possibly extended beyond the U.S. should the Confederacy not prevail.

    You need to be able to make a recovery or recovery's without getting caught/noticed/even relieved of it...
    Do you have a central collection site of dues? Or let each Castle mind it's own? Or a little of both?

    Now dodge the oppression and get the gold where it's going to be secure regardless of war outcome. And recoverable.

    Where among the many places it's not now , is the gold you had??

    Hedging your bet through diversity of sites can allow losses here and still having assets elsewhere.
    All your eggs in one basket means all is lost if the basket is lost.

    Quite the task.
    Would you hide a portion North in Federal areas? Right under their noses?
    Or let treasurers hide their own eggs while you worry about your own?
    Or go beyond contested regions?

    Dents Run is in the wind as far as provenance to me still.
    Yet let's consider the K.G.C. or an agent post war going to PA. to recover a large (tons of large) cache.(If they are alive and at liberty to move about) Suddenly the recovery is obviously fraught with great risk of exposure. No?

    Or (speculation,hello) let it set a hundred years. Two hundred years. I'm not liking the idea. More than a gazillion eyes now ,we've got urban sprawl in the bargain.

    With hindsight again , what would you do after the war in regards to the presumed remaining gold dues if any remained ? At least those portions you can access.

    With international interests , what specie would you change gold coins into? IF you changed them.
    Commonly accepted beats one not desired.
    And gold bars? Hard to spend traveling (or at home) without attracting attention. And how to spend only a portion of one?
    And post war offering a gold bar in exchange? Big red flag....

  15. #15
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    TunaTonker

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    Quote Originally Posted by releventchair View Post
    What's total speculation?
    (Just a bit of levity here, so don't take it personally) But literally everything after the first four sentences was speculation, assumption or question begging.
    Last edited by GoDeep; Jan 17, 2020 at 11:36 AM.

 

 
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