I have found the Lost Adams Diggings Sno-Ta-hay Canyon

[Springfield]

OK, AZG, time for a 'heads up'.

This thread is nothing more than a game perpetrated by someone with too much free time. Your questions and challeges are what feeds the game. You will never get anything out of it unless you consider trying to match wits with a jokester worthy of your own time.

 

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[AZ_Gold]

AZ_Gold,

In response to your question, the professors name, just to make it easy for you, is: Professor ET Bigfoot

Thank you. That confirms my suspicion: he doesn't exist.

@Springfield: Thanks. You're probably right.

 

[filemaker01]

I didn't place this thread here as a game.

We're very serious in that the mounds be preserved as these are ancient art that science can and will learn much from. Gold fever can cloud one's judgement so much that they actually can't see the obvious and what's worse will do some pretty treturous things to feed the greed, so to speak.

No, sorry, we're very serious about the earth mounds. There is just too much evidence this is in fact the LAD, Sno Ta Hay Canyon or area of interest written about by so many books. Every point of interest mentioned by Adams is exactly as he explains. You can see the two sugerloaf hills to the south from above the pumpkin patch area that is still there, the saddle mountain and vast area to the west and north of open desert it's all there.

The website is no game either. SO let's get serious then, why would anyone want to not preserve the area unless they believed this area is the real LAD and maybe would only not want the area preserved for their own reasons of wanting to exploit the area and destroy the mounds? Not one single person yet has offered one speculation of evidence to prove otherwise, whatsoever in any scientific manner that these are not earth mounds.

Every single government entity and Native American groups including the USGS and many others have been notified and have viewed the website. I doubt the original Adams party who's remains were also found recently in the ravine or gulch and around where the cabin was burned down were also discovered. Ron Jensen (who nobody's heard from since 2003 since he created his website explaining the betrayal certain people) while he wrote did in fact find the treasure there before there were also over three hundred gold claims filed in the area that expired for no known reason. BLM knows about the mounds now and wont issue claims, which is a very good thing. Not everyone seeks gold while looking for treasure and hopefully the mounds will continue to be protected, but there are those now seeking answers and I'm sure are getting much closer to the truth now concerning several issues regarding the area and the mounds that will help insure the mounds will be protected. A friend of the mounds will be sharing some great photos soon I would also like to share soon.

Anyway, since we answered so many questions we'll be waiting patiently for any real scientific evidence the mounds don't exist and answers to our questions. We haven't read any answers yet to our questions as to why certain people are so interested in the area they dont want to see anything posted regarding the area, etc etc...

Thanks, Seriously

Phil http://www.snotahaycanyon.com

 

[filemaker01]

I also meant to mention something else that is one of the biggest clues that proved the area to be the LAD compared to any other area so far thought to be the LAD:

Adams and Brewer were found exactly and perfectly due south about 114 miles from the canyon, not south by south east or west, but due south about 114 miles from where they started on foot to avoid being caught on horseback. The distance and discription by Adams of the terrain they covered and time it took to get to the area where they were rescued coincides perfectly with the story. Any further north, would have been wrong because they would have found small colonies closer to Ft Wingate which is also located exactly as described by Gotch Ear as being four days travel by wagon or horse and two days if traveled by Native American who was well used to living in the harsh conditions there. The trail mentioned that leads to Ft Wingate is still there. Every single point of interest fits perfectly with the area. The effigy mounds fit perfectly with the story in that this would be the best candidate as a Chief only burial grounds as the legend also states and the name itself Sno Ta Hay Canyon translates.

The purpose for opening this thread was to hopefully find information that contradicts the information we gave but so far all we've read is nothing but otherwise, and only that attacks my or others intellect by one or two who have obvious personal reasons for not wanting this subject to be discussed and nothing more that proves otherwise.

Anyway, thanks anyway, : )

Phil

 

[filemaker01]

We'll be posting the new photos by next week from an enthusiest who also believes the area we show as the LAD who is also a long time prospector and helped with various satelites while working for NASA. The images are pretty amazing and only prove the same as we've posted on the website. Remember, you have to reverse the images in order to properly compare to the canyon. Dah!

We're also filming a spoof video regarding the video posted on Google Earth near Pie Town we will post nearby of the gentleman who claims the tree that was obviously freshly marked with seven gashes, in that the tree would not have even been alive or even concieved yet and even if it were, would have been much too young to be able to mark the way the video shows which is hilarious. I saw that video and only looked for the hachet laying around the tree shown in the video. Too funny! That tree is maybe 120 years old tops. I haven't seen one clue anywhere that proves anything anywhere else.

So, now that the government is assembling the needed professionals to look at the effigy mounds, we're only too happy that the information we gave was fruitful and was more than enough to prove the mounds existence.

Again, good research is what counts.

Phil

 

[AZ_Gold]

Not one single person yet has offered one speculation of evidence to prove otherwise, whatsoever in any scientific manner that these are not earth mounds.

We've already told you this is an invalid argument. It is an argument from ignorance.

Argument from ignorance, or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false.

In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

Source: Wikipedia

So this is not just my opinion, it is the opinion of every person capable of logical thought. Research this for yourself. Ask one of your professors.

In this case, the burden of proof is on you. Appeals to ignorance are not working for you here.

If you use this argument again, my next response will be about willful ignorance.

why would anyone want to not preserve the area unless they believed this area is the real LAD and maybe would only not want the area preserved for their own reasons of wanting to exploit the area and destroy the mounds?

This, too, is an invalid argument. It assumes the mounds exist (which hasn't been proven) and assumes that the readers believe it's the LAD (I don't).

If the mounds are ever proven to exist, I personally would jump on the "Save The Canyon" bandwagon. I simply do not believe they exist. I have no reason to "exploit the area", and I won't be wasting my time on a trip to this location for any reason.

Therefore, it's an invalid argument.

 

[AU_Hunter]

Well, Phil, you're not the only one who can do some research. I did a little web browsing, and found the website for the New Mexico Office of Archaeological Studies, a Division of the State of New Mexico Department of Cultural Affairs. Their website is here: http://www.nmarchaeology.org/# As the official site for the State of New Mexico's archaeological efforts, they have a wealth of information, including descriptions of their laboratories (Archaeomagnetic Dating Lab, Chipped Stone Artifact Analysis Lab, Ethnobotany Lab, Osteology Lab, and Pottery Analysis Lab). There is no reference anywhere to any huge animal effigy mounds in the western part of the state. There are webpages for Events, Publications, Education Outreach, and, most importantly, Contacts. So I contacted a real archaeologist from that office, Eric Blinman, DCA, (his e-mail address is [email protected] ) with the question of whether or not the State of New Mexico had any archaeological interest in the area, and pointed him to your website. His reply:

"Some people have too much time on their hands … my greater interest is the improvement of education in New Mexico.
Thanks!
--Eric"

Evidently the State of New Mexico is not interested in this matter. And, just to be clear, there are private lands interspersed with the BLM lands in this area, and archaeological concerns on private lands fall under the jurisdiction of the State of New Mexico, and it's office described above.

Since this area also has BLM lands, I found that the responsible district office for the BLM in that area is the Socorro office. They, too, have a webpage, here: http://www.blm.gov/nm/st/en/fo/Socorro_Field_Office.html On that website is a list of Cultural Resources, with no reference anywhere to any massive animal effigy mounds. There is also a link on that website to BLM archaeologists in the state of New Mexico here: http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...002.File.dat/Archaeologists list_11 21 11.pdf I sent off an e-mail to one of the archaeologists in the Socorro District office, but haven't received a reply, yet. When I do, you can be sure that I'll post it here.

Again, to be clear, there is no effort on my part to silence discussion about this matter. I'm perfectly fine with discussing it to discover the truth. You're okay with discussing this with the responsible archaeologists, too, aren't you, Phil?

 

[AU_Hunter]

Another point of interest: your photo of the Sagittarius star clouds is in fact NOT reversed, it is correctly oriented. It just happens to be about 180 degrees away from Taurus, where you say it is on your website.

 

[AZ_Gold]

I have just discovered the Giant Lips effigy. It is a fact that many ancient cultures worldwide used these lips to symbolically represent Angelina Jolie.

 

[AZ_Gold]

Again, good research is what counts.

Phil

I couldn't agree more. I did some research myself today.

First let's go all the way back to the beginning of this thread, when filemaker/Phil claims he has found the LAD site.

I know this is a very bold statement but I can prove this with the map made by Adams and an overlay of an aerial view map that shows every landmark on the map

Well, there's a problem with that. Here's the "map made by Adams":

The most prominent landmark is the "Z Canyon". Unfortunately, there is no Z-shaped canyon at the location he has chosen. In fact there is no canyon at all. How does he account for this discrepancy? He tells a story about earthquakes.

When another member pointed out this same discrepancy, Phil answered:

the area where I'm talking about had a couple of very huge earthquakes that took down the tall walls that are now gone, besides the land pennensulla that fell.

So the canyon is gone because of huge earthquakes. This is also covered on the website. He claims there used to be a large canyon wall right here:

This just didn't sound right to me. I grew up in Southern California and have experienced many earthquakes. I lived in Yucca Valley in 1999 and rode out the Hector Mine 7.1 earthquake. And you know what? The topography of the desert did not change.

But that's not real evidence, it's more of an anecdote. Like Phil says, good research is what counts.

So first I used Google Earth and enabled the USGS layer...

This shows only minor earthquakes in the area. The oldest, the 3.9 quake, was in 1969. So I thought I better do some more research. Maybe there were historic quakes. I went to the USGS web site and found info about all the quakes in New Mexico.

New Mexico Earthquake History

Most of New Mexico's historical seismicity has been concentrated in the Rio Grande Valley between Socorro and Albuquerque. About half of the earthquakes of intensity VI or greater (Modified Mercalli intensity) that occurred in the State between 1868 and 1973 were centered in this region.

The earliest reported earthquake in New Mexico was an intensity V tremor that occurred near Socorro on April 20, 1855. In the years that followed, Socorro was struck by numerous low to moderate intensity earthquakes. Most of these caused little or no damage and were felt over a small area. However, beginning on July 2, 1906, and lasting well into 1907 the area was affected by shocks almost daily. There were three fairly severe shocks in this series. The first was an intensity VII tremor that struck on July 12 and cracked some adobe walls and threw others down. Ground fissures and visible waves on the surface were reported with this earthquake.

Source

Largest Earthquake in New Mexico

This earthquake, which increased the property damage already sustained at Socorro, was described as the most severe shock of the year. Four rebuilt chimneys were shaken off the Socorro County Courthouse, and two others were cracked severely. Plaster fell at the courthouse, and a cornice on the northwest corner of the two-story adobe Masonic Temple was thrown onto its first floor. Several bricks fell from the front gable on one house. Plaster was shaken from walls in Santa Fe, about 200 kilometers from the epicenter. Felt over most of New Mexico and in parts of Arizona and Texas.

Socorro is about 125 miles from "Z Canyon". So there were no major quakes in the purported LAD location according to USGS, who has records all the way back to 1855. But even a 7.0 quake doesn't cause canyons to disappear. Fissures open sometimes. Chimneys topple. Man-made buildings have structural damage on occasion. Topography doesn't change.

And what else does the USGS do besides monitor earthquakes? Geological surveys. It's what the GS stands for. This means sending trained personnel out into the field with survey equipment to measure every hill, every canyon, every mountain.

I think they would have noticed a missing canyon. Probably would have written a report.

Fact: there is no canyon at this location.
Fact: there were no big earthquakes at this location.
Fact: the topography has remained virtually unchanged for centuries.

Therefore, this is not Sno Ta Hay Canyon. Sorry.

Good luck with those effigies.

 

[filemaker01]

It's the funniest thing, When these earthmounds were first discovered, people thought they were actually part of some fence line or just something paculiar while there were I'm sure treasure hunters and those who thought they had a claim to the area who tried in vien to have the subject matter stopped before the correct officials with real educations who worked for the park service got involved.

Enjoy http://www.nps.gov/archeology/sites/npSites/effigyMounds.htm

Yes the mounds do exist and yes those same officials have been all notified so there's no turning back now. Have a great day all and thanks for getting involved in trying to save something very fascinating while ignoring those who would want otherwise for their own personal reasons. Art really is true treasure.

Phil

 

[filemaker01]

Hurraaaayyy WE WIN!! Ahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha!​

​

 

[filemaker01]

 

[AU_Hunter]

Enjoy http://www.nps.gov/archeology/sites/npSites/effigyMounds.htm

Yes the mounds do exist and yes those same officials have been all notified so there's no turning back now.

From your NPS link: "These mounds are primarily found in southern Wisconsin, northern Illinois, eastern Iowa, and southeastern Minnesota." I find it odd that the NPS would have a detailed website about their Effigy Mounds National Monument in Iowa, yet has no mention of any effigy mounds in New Mexico which would dwarf all of the rest of the effigy mounds, combined. Surely a discovery of this magnitude would be championed on the Web, and in the news. Large scientific discoveries usually manage to get splashed across all the news outlets. It's amazing how silent all of the media are about this.

And, remember, the State of New Mexico isn't interested in this area as far as effigy mounds are concerned, according to a real archaeologist (Eric Blinman, see above for his contact information) on their payroll.

And, really, Phil, more satellite imagery isn't going to convince me of much of anything. I see the same ambiguous, random scenery in the image above that I see in the GE visible-wavelength pix on your website. You can project your imagination onto it like a Rohrschach inkblot test to see your Bison and whatnot. Me, I prefer to see it as the random desert scenery that it really is. Still waiting for some concrete evidence of the archaeological variety.

 

[filemaker01]

Sorry, I'm having a yard sale today, I'll be back to read all your great posts later this evening or tomorrow at the latest.

ya'll are the greatest. I have more information now on our website:

http://www.snotahaycanyon.com/index.html

Please be sure to click your browser's refresh button in order to view any new updates or images on the website.

Thanks everyone for your kindness,

Sincerely,

Phil

 

[Oroblanco]

filemaker01 wrote

working in the field part time for nearly thirty five years prospecting

I noticed this in your 'resume' (so to speak) in particular as this is about the same amount of experience I have. What surprised me about your making that statement was that previously you had said there is NO gold remaining in 'Sno-ta-hay', which if it is truly the lost placer deposit of Adams, you would know from your own prospecting experience that no mining operation ever gets ALL of the gold, always some is left for it is both beyond the capabilities of the extraction processes available, and would be very un-economic to attempt to extract every trace of gold. The heap leaching process comes pretty close to getting it all but no placer process is that efficient to get it all. Miners of the 19th century, especially placer miners, would not bother to try to get it all. There are today a fair number of placer mines in the arctic that are re-working the tailings from the 19th and early 20th century miners for the gold left behind.

Perhaps your prospecting was not focused on placers but rather lode deposits, yet still I am surprised that you would not have known about the fact that if that canyon (using the term a bit loosely) is Adams, there ought to be at least enough gold remaining to establish that it was indeed a placer gold deposit. Tailings are another key factor, but there are possible explanations to explain why those might not be visible.

I would suggest further research in the field before proceeding further, but get the impression that you are not interested in any suggestions. Nothing will turn away the interest of professional archaeologists/anthropologists faster than showing them something that turns out to be nothing, they do not like to waste time so it is a good practice to 'get all the ducks in a row' before getting them involved. So I will not bother you further about this, good luck and good hunting to you; I hope you and everyone reading this will find the treasures that you seek.

Also - to our new member;

AU_Hunter - WELCOME TO TREASURENET!

Oroblanco

 

[AZ_Gold]

Yes the mounds do exist and yes those same officials have been all notified so there's no turning back now.

I've known about the mound builders of the Woodland period for years. They are found only in the eastern US. They are an entirely separate culture from the known peoples of the southwest. Don't take my word for it. Read up on it.Did you even read your own link? The very first sentence is: "The eastern half of the United States has a wide variety of ancient and historic earthen mounds".

Guess what? New Mexico is not included in that area. Once again you've failed to prove anything.

You're "we won" celebration is a bit premature. I predict nothing will come of this.

And you're constant insinuations about anyone who doesn't accept your claims are really offensive and tiresome.

I found this reply by filemaker in another thread here:

Mr. Jensen seems to have disappered after claiming he found the cache of gold hidden by the Adams party. So then if so, where are the photos and proof? Why hasn't he showed all his fans or those who followed his articles the proof? ...

Until Mr. Jensen comes forward with actual photographs, witnesses then I have to for now believe his story is either a hoax, maybe true without proof, or he was met with ill fate

So I guess it's okay for you to doubt others who have no proof, but if anyone else does it they must have evil intent.

I'll be waiting for the actual proof of effigies in the southwest, but I won't hold my breath. Until then I'm done with this nonsense.

 

[AU_Hunter]

Thanks, OroBlanco, for the welcome!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

AU, may I second ORO's welcome. Join us?

Don Jose de La mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ORO, one thing always makes me curious. The remark is made that it has a hidden entrance so is difficult to find and enter ??

Shucks ORO, if you were walking along a cliff and suddenly spotted a large OOP delta, you would just HAVE to investigate no?

A canyon the size of the zig Zag one, would be a natural collector of water from the storms, it would have to exit and it would carry along a tremendous amount of soil, and rocks to be deposited in the main exit. Among this debris would also be Gold, if present inside. Over the years this delta must have accumulated enough materiel to be of a large, readily spotted size

Any reasonable prospector traveling along would readily spot it, and go check it for signs. He would find the hidden entrance while doing so.

Sooo??

Just curious.

Don Jose de La Mancha