Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

[cactusjumper]

Joe

Read this clue which is the right :

" Bicknell states: In a gulch in the Superstition Mountains, the location of which is described certain landmarks; there is a two-room house in the mouth of a cave on the side of the slope near the gulch. Just across from the gulch, about 200 yards opposite this house in the cave, is a tunnel, well covered up and concealed in the bushes. Here is the mine, the richest in the world, "

On the side and not at the bottom . And at 200 yards opposite and not half mile .
So , the real clue don't fits to the Pit mine .

Marius,

Bicknell got his clues from someone, other than Waltz, same as most clues to the LDM. Bick also stated that he would search ten miles east of Weaver's Needle. That puts him right on top of the Pit Mine. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

Because of the "Hell, I was there" syndrome, many people came forward after Waltz died with bogus clues that had nothing to do with Waltz. Many such clues that hunters accept as legit were simple smoke screens to take searchers away from someone's favorite search area. Kind of like the map that was posted earlier, said to have been drawn by Julia Thomas.

Bick was a Dutch Hunter. Do you believe he would give away any important clues?

Good luck,

Joe

 

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[markmar]

Marius,

Your location is one of your problems. By not being here and discussing this topic face to face with some of the people involved, you might as well be in outer Mongolia.

Here's one example: I asked the person who found and showed the Pit Mine to the folks who worked it, "was the mine sealed when you found it, like the Holmes story says?" and he said "yes".

Your research into this topic is falling way short. You need to find and read where the information was first published. Had you been following this story, you would not need to have asked the clues question.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe

He answered " yes " because he believed was the LDM or just because he wanted to take the fame of the LDM finder . Deep in his heart he knew how wasn't the LDM . If the mine would been covered like the LDM , tell him from me , he never will find it .
And Joe , I don't need to talk face to face with any person because I don't research anymore for the LDM .
You can believe what you like but is better to call the fish - fish and the meat - meat .

Greetings from Mongolia .

 

[markmar]

Marius,

Bicknell got his clues from someone, other than Waltz, same as most clues to the LDM. Bick also stated that he would search ten miles east of Weaver's Needle. That puts him right on top of the Pit Mine. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

Because of the "Hell, I was there" syndrome, many people came forward after Waltz died with bogus clues that had nothing to do with Waltz. Many such clues that hunters accept as legit were simple smoke screens to take searchers away from someone's favorite search area. Kind of like the map that was posted earlier, said to have been drawn by Julia Thomas.

Bick was a Dutch Hunter. Do you believe he would give away any important clues?

Good luck,

Joe

Joe

I quoted Bick's . You quoted Whom ?
I can quote other 10 mine but what would be the difference ?

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

He answered " yes " because he believed was the LDM or just because he wanted to take the fame of the LDM finder . Deep in his heart he knew how wasn't the LDM . If the mine would been covered like the LDM , tell him from me , he never will find it .
And Joe , I don't need to talk face to face with any person because I don't research anymore for the LDM .
You can believe what you like but is better to call the fish - fish and the meat - meat .

Greetings from Mongolia .

Marius,

You have no idea what you are talking about here. The Pit Mine was covered as Holmes describes in his story. Not knowing the background stories of the people involved puts you completely in the dark.

I don't say it's the Pit Mine, but it's closer than anything that's been found since Waltz's death and two people in my family thought they had found the LDM.

I will leave the fish and meat to you, and move on.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Joe

I want to believe how the mine was covered in the LDM manner , but I can't . We have only his word which is not a conclusive proof.

 

[sgtfda]

I agree with Joe. The is a tunnel below the Pitt mine. I believe Jacks new book has some info on that issue. I'll have a copy tomorrow when I see him at the treasure hunter of the year award in AJ. That book is selling like hot cakes. First printing is just about gone.

 

[cactusjumper]

I agree with Joe. The is a tunnel below the Pitt mine. I believe Jacks new book has some info on that issue. I'll have a copy tomorrow when I see him at the treasure hunter of the year award in AJ. That book is selling like hot cakes. First printing is just about gone.

Frank,

Believe I have a picture of that tunnel. Can't post it on this site, but it can be found elsewhere.

Tell Jack I said hello, and ask him to send me his new book.

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

And just how do you know this?

Too many red flags in the telling....from a rich gold mine, to a silver mine with a rich pocket of gold ore, to a cache of rich gold ore deep inside.
Also in the timing...that it took a number of men working three years to excavate ( 200 ft.?) and recover enough to satisfy their wants, whereas Waltz claimed it was the richest gold mine he had ever seen, with enough gold visible to make 20 men millionaires. He didn't say anything about his mine also containing silver ore, or that it would have to be excavated much deeper before one could strike it rich.
I also have some doubts based on the "clues" as well, although Thomas Glover's presentation at the Rendezvous gave a number of plausible reasons for both the abundance of clues and how they may have applied in total to the several mining ventures Waltz was involved in, but were scrambled in the retelling over time. But I do believe Waltz's description of the pit being steep, but not so steep as one can't climb down (without the use of rope or ladder), to a face wall of hanging quartz from which one could pry the gold loose with only a knife.
If what they found was anything like that, I would assume lots of photos were taken....so where are they ?
I would consider that much more convincing, than what we have all seen so far.
There's more, but I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[sgtfda]

Will do Joe. I believe the museum still has some also.

 

[Weaversneedle]

Too many red flags in the telling....from a rich gold mine, to a silver mine with a rich pocket of gold ore, to a cache of rich gold ore deep inside.
Also in the timing...that it took a number of men working three years to excavate ( 200 ft.?) and recover enough to satisfy their wants, whereas Waltz claimed it was the richest gold mine he had ever seen, with enough gold visible to make 20 men millionaires. He didn't say anything about his mine also containing silver ore, or that it would have to be excavated much deeper before one could strike it rich.
I also have some doubts based on the "clues" as well, although Thomas Glover's presentation at the Rendezvous gave a number of plausible reasons for both the abundance of clues and how they may have applied in total to the several mining ventures Waltz was involved in, but were scrambled in the retelling over time. But I do believe Waltz's description of the pit being steep, but not so steep as one can't climb down (without the use of rope or ladder), to a face wall of hanging quartz from which one could pry the gold loose with only a knife.
If what they found was anything like that, I would assume lots of photos were taken....so where are they ?
I would consider that much more convincing, than what we have all seen so far.
There's more, but I'll leave it at that for now.

I would say the first order of business is to realize that nobody really knows what waltz said, it is all second hand and hearsay

 

[somehiker]

I would say the first order of business is to realize that nobody really knows what waltz said, it is all second hand and hearsay

But it's all we have and will ever have, and is also what is being used to prop up the "pit mine is the LDM" claims.

 

[Weaversneedle]

But it's all we have and will ever have, and is also what is being used to prop up the "pit mine is the LDM" claims.

If you haven't already done so read Crooked Mountain, alot of waltz clues fit the area

 

[somehiker]

I haven't read it yet, I admit, but will likely do so some time in the future.
I'm not saying that there's NO possibility the "pit mine" is related to Waltz's gold, because I agree that at least some of the clues do appear to fit what he shared with others.
Some time ago, I shared my own thoughts on what the pit mine might represent....that being the Peralta mine that Waltz , Weiser and Peralta worked for a spell, and which Peralta deeded them in exchange for their share of the gold. This makes more sense to me, given the relative proximity of the HEAT dig and that it proved an early Mexican mining presence in the area. I believe the LDM, not found as yet, and with the "matchbox ore", is the one that he discovered later, after losing his mules and kit to the Apache.

 

[nobodie]

A lot of fiction.

 

[cactusjumper]

A lot of fiction.

nobodie,"

No one who has read the book and taken the time to become familiar with the area, can say it's all or complete fiction. In addition, you might read "Jacob's Trail" by Jesse Feldman and "Lost El Dorado Of Jacob Waltz" by Jack San Felice. In those two books you will find all the Waltz clues you can handle. On the other hand, you may find some fiction mixed in as well.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Paul,

As I have said before......When XXXXX finally broke free of the brush surrounding the Pit Mine, he almost fell into the shaft. Eventually he returned to the site and went into the mine. It had been cleaned out. You have all seen the pictures he took inside.

It still remains a possibility that Waltz's mine was actually a cache, left there by someone else. He took what he needed and was afraid to do more. Who knew when the original owners might return. Who knows why it was left there, and never recovered by those who left it there. Death is the most obvious answer.

All of the "clues" attributed to Jacob Waltz are suspect. I believe most of them were created to cause total confusion and lead people away from the truth, much like what some of people who post on these sites are still doing today.

In any case, I wish you the best in what you are seeking. "Let the search become your destination"......or something like that.

Take care,

Joe

I really like this ideal.

 

[markmar]

I haven't read it yet, I admit, but will likely do so some time in the future.
I'm not saying that there's NO possibility the "pit mine" is related to Waltz's gold, because I agree that at least some of the clues do appear to fit what he shared with others.
Some time ago, I shared my own thoughts on what the pit mine might represent....that being the Peralta mine that Waltz , Weiser and Peralta worked for a spell, and which Peralta deeded them in exchange for their share of the gold. This makes more sense to me, given the relative proximity of the HEAT dig and that it proved an early Mexican mining presence in the area. I believe the LDM, not found as yet, and with the "matchbox ore", is the one that he discovered later, after losing his mules and kit to the Apache.

Wayne

The Pit mine was not Waltz's . Remember the John Reed's letters and the desctiption of the mine's location . Also the Pit mine could be what an old Mexican miner told to John's father about a rich mine in Rogers canyon .

 

[sgtfda]

I'm reading it now. It does address the Pitt mine issues. Even has a few pages about the old Sarge.

 

[cactusjumper]

View attachment 1286042
I'm reading it now. It does address the Pitt mine issues. Even has a few pages about the old Sarge.

Frank,

That looks like a hardcover. Is that so?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[sgtfda]

Soft cove but a thick book. Tons of great information. Joe I passed your message on.