Season finale of Superstition Mountains show....

[Hal Croves]

I still cannot even fathom how they got away with saying that Jesuit cross was in the top of Batshit Cave. Because it isn't, hope some poor info stealing douche like Kurt doesn't kill himself trying to get up there to steal the imaginary cross.

hooch,
Have you or anyone you know personally ever been into the bat cave?

 

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[Azquester]

Wondo,

Welcome to the forum.

Your one tough dude!

As far as those guys not being qualified I believe they totally are even though they don't look that tough those guys have been in the Sups doing this for years and know the terrain pretty good.

I spent some time in there and know what you mean! Three days in and three days out?

No way! I would be done in there by the second day my muscles would lock up on the third day! But I did make a climb once in my younger years with an 80 pound backpack filled with chains, a come along, climbing gear, metal detector, tent, food, water, sleeping bag, and all survival gear!

After making the climb and repelling down into a cave for the first time I realized I'd better turn around before nightfall as I would be so sore the next day I surely would be stranded for a few more days before I could move again!

It's a tough human experience, raw nature and man. Most of us don't leave our lounge chairs just to try it for a change. Today I don't know if I could do it I'm still not sure my ankle would not give out on me after shattering it 18 months ago and having my foot sowed back on.

If it holds on small expeditions I would give it a whirl I'm still game for it! If you know the true treasure hunting signs it wouldn't take three days in and out. I don't believe in the Dutchman's Mine but, I still believe in the system of Treasure!

I agree...it is scripted quite a bit..alot actually... I spent 7 years hiking the desert and mountains of the Bartlett Lake Area. I also hiked 3 days in and 3 days out of the Supes...I can tell you that I had to use every ounce of my Marine Corps training to survive..it was rough to say the least. Physically you have to be in serious shape or you will not make it..period...those guys are not qualified or trained to be out there.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, I have spent weeks at a time with only my mule for compny while on the trail of Tayopa, taint hard, sometimes fun. I don't imagine the Super's are much different.

Takes a special person to attempt that. Not many are strong enough to endure the isolation and uncertainty. Are mules (the four legged ones) good company?

 

[hooch]

hooch,
Have you or anyone you know personally ever been into the bat cave?

Edit* guess we can't say things on here that will ruin someone's credibility

 

[Hal Croves]

Edit* guess we can't say things on here that will ruin someone's credibility

I simply wanted to know how you came to the conclusion that the Bat Cave cross was a hoax of some kind.
I think its a reasonably fair question. If it was a hoax, a slight of hand, substituting one cave for another or the use of a prop, then you have every right to question the credibility of those connected to the show.

 

[AZGOLDMAN]

There is no Lost Dutchman's Mine..

The sad fact is there is no chance for this group of miners or any other miners actually finding the Lost Dutchman's Mine. It doesn't exist. It is believed by most in the Arizona mining commuty that Jacob Waltz was nothing more than a thief. The rich gold ore he produced and claimed was mined in the superstition mountains was actually highgraded from his time working in the Vulture Mine outside of Wickenburg. Highgrading was a constant problem at the Vulture operation, and several men were hanged for this offense. The one ore sample that is traced to Waltz is inlaid into a fancy matchbox. This ore looks identical to the rich gold ore produced from the Vulture mine.

It is interesting to see the Vuture mine start back up in commercial production in recent years. I have several claims in the area that are within sight of the Vulture mine. It is quite an operation with constant movement of machinery as they strip mine the area over the old tunnels.

 

[somehiker]

The sad fact is there is no chance for this group of miners or any other miners actually finding the Lost Dutchman's Mine. It doesn't exist. It is believed by most in the Arizona mining commuty that Jacob Waltz was nothing more than a thief. The rich gold ore he produced and claimed was mined in the superstition mountains was actually highgraded from his time working in the Vulture Mine outside of Wickenburg. Highgrading was a constant problem at the Vulture operation, and several men were hanged for this offense. The one ore sample that is traced to Waltz is inlaid into a fancy matchbox. This ore looks identical to the rich gold ore produced from the Vulture mine.

It is interesting to see the Vuture mine start back up in commercial production in recent years. I have several claims in the area that are within sight of the Vulture mine. It is quite an operation with constant movement of machinery as they strip mine the area over the old tunnels.

I take it you don't believe the "pit mine" is the LDM ?

 

[gollum]

The sad fact is there is no chance for this group of miners or any other miners actually finding the Lost Dutchman's Mine. It doesn't exist. It is believed by most in the Arizona mining commuty that Jacob Waltz was nothing more than a thief. The rich gold ore he produced and claimed was mined in the superstition mountains was actually highgraded from his time working in the Vulture Mine outside of Wickenburg. Highgrading was a constant problem at the Vulture operation, and several men were hanged for this offense. The one ore sample that is traced to Waltz is inlaid into a fancy matchbox. This ore looks identical to the rich gold ore produced from the Vulture mine.


It is interesting to see the Vuture mine start back up in commercial production in recent years. I have several claims in the area that are within sight of the Vulture mine. It is quite an operation with constant movement of machinery as they strip mine the area over the old tunnels.

Man, I know this is REALLY OLD, but maybe you will see this. That old wive's tail you regurgitated was disproven long before you were born. Dick Holmes sold the ore from under Walt's Bed to Joseph Porterie (and also had some made into a match safe, cuff links, and tie stick pin). Joseph Porterie said many times that it was like no ore he had ever seen in Arizona. Oh yeah, Joseph Porterie was also the Chief Assayer at the Vulture Mine.

Mike

 

[wrmickel1]

Man, I know this is REALLY OLD, but maybe you will see this. That old wive's tail you regurgitated was disproven long before you were born. Dick Holmes sold the ore from under Walt's Bed to Joseph Porterie (and also had some made into a match safe, cuff links, and tie stick pin). Joseph Porterie said many times that it was like no ore he had ever seen in Arizona. Oh yeah, Joseph Porterie was also the Chief Assayer at the Vulture Mine.

Mike

Mike

Most of what you just posted has never been vindicated, Info stored in the Holmes Manuscript which Dick never wrote and Bronwie claimed he never did in his lifetime. The Dutchman's ledgen in the beginning claimed the gold was in Rose
Quarts, It changed in the late 60's early 70's. I bet you check and that match box was never showed to anyone till that time frame, Other wise it never existed in the Ledgen. It was placed there. Like I said I've held 3 other Match Cases from that Company, None were made from a single piece. They were made with inlays and the box was made of several pieces, seems soldered and buffed out. Ill guarantee that 100 percent.

Babymick1

 

[markmar]

Mike

Most of what you just posted has never been vindicated, Info stored in the Holmes Manuscript which Dick never wrote and Bronwie claimed he never did in his lifetime. The Dutchman's ledgen in the beginning claimed the gold was in Rose
Quarts, It changed in the late 60's early 70's. I bet you check and that match box was never showed to anyone till that time frame, Other wise it never existed in the Ledgen. It was placed there. Like I said I've held 3 other Match Cases from that Company, None were made from a single piece. They were made with inlays and the box was made of several pieces, seems soldered and buffed out. Ill guarantee that 100 percent.

Babymick1

Mickel1

There are two mines on the same mountainside which were worked by Waltz . The one which is higher , is an incline shaft that has white quartz on one side and hematite on the other, both filled with gold .
The lower one , which was declared by Waltz as the most rich gold mine in the world , has rose quartz with very rich concentration of gold .
Also , both mines are on the same deposit/vein , but have different matrix . They are only about 75 yards apart .

The incline shaft is depicted in the Perfil mapa as " HOYO " and the other mine as " TUNEL " . The " TUNEL " like Waltz said and also could be seen in the Perfil mapa is across the ravine from the roofless two room house ruin ( CAVERNA CON CASA in the Perfil mapa ) .
Now , above the tunnel mine , before Waltz comes to the scene and works it , there was an outcrop of gold in rose quartz ( known as Placer to Herman ) , where the gold was so much ( because the rain washed the quartz away ) that to Doc Thorne seemed to be partially worked/refined .

So , when you say Waltz mine had gold in rose quartz , you are refering to the Placer LDM mine , which was the Waltz's favorite mine . I believe Waltz had ore from both Quartz ( incline shaft ) mine and Placer mine . Also I believe how what have been produced from Waltz ore as pins , matchbox , etc. , were from the Quartz mine because the ore from the Placer had too instable seep quartz and the gold would been fallen apart .

 

[gollum]

Mike

Most of what you just posted has never been vindicated, Info stored in the Holmes Manuscript which Dick never wrote and Bronwie claimed he never did in his lifetime. The Dutchman's ledgen in the beginning claimed the gold was in Rose
Quarts, It changed in the late 60's early 70's. I bet you check and that match box was never showed to anyone till that time frame, Other wise it never existed in the Ledgen. It was placed there. Like I said I've held 3 other Match Cases from that Company, None were made from a single piece. They were made with inlays and the box was made of several pieces, seems soldered and buffed out. Ill guarantee that 100 percent.

Babymick1

Mick,

There is no doubt that Dick Holmes sold 40 pounds of rich ore to Joseph Porterie. Julia Thomas stated that Holmes stole the ore from under Waltz' Bed. Thomas saw the ore prior to Waltz' death. The only question is where did Waltz get the ore that was under his bed?

There are several statements attributed to Waltz that noone knows if they are true or not. Rose Quartz, Rose and White Quartz, another vein about 9 inches wide of dark gray mineral (hematite?) with gold the size of wheat kernels that can be picked out with a knife, when you crawl into the mine look up and to the right to see the veins (not a funnel).

The "Pit Mine" (Silver Chief) is not the LDM, rich as it was.

The ONLY thing anybody can say with 100% authority is that 99% of everything publicly known about the LDM is BS. HAHAHA Why do you think it hasn't been found yet? I have always said that no Dutch Hunter will likely ever find it. Some Birkenstock wearing, Patchouli stinking, hippie (who has never heard of the LDM) will probably be out on a nature hike, and accidentally stick his leg through the covering, and become famous! HAHAHA

Mike

 

[Al D]

Regardless of where anyone stands on the LDM ledgend, it is a big relief that the tv reality show ended. IMO

 

[Phoenix native]

The Apache Helicopters are from Boeing which is just on the other side of the superstitions.. they fly them all the time over that range of mountains...i see them all the time. They weren't stalking these guys. Also, did anyone else notice what looked like puddy around the cross edge? Don't knock down the wall!! It could be a Booby trap!��

 

[wrmickel1]

Regardless of where anyone stands on the LDM ledgend, it is a big relief that the tv reality show ended. IMO

No, Alan

I loved that show, It was great for those who aren’t a Hardin Dutchman’s Critic, Not to say the many people that will never be Able to see the beauty of the Supers except from there Armchairs.

Babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

Mick,

There is no doubt that Dick Holmes sold 40 pounds of rich ore to Joseph Porterie. Julia Thomas stated that Holmes stole the ore from under Waltz' Bed. Thomas saw the ore prior to Waltz' death. The only question is where did Waltz get the ore that was under his bed?

There are several statements attributed to Waltz that noone knows if they are true or not. Rose Quartz, Rose and White Quartz, another vein about 9 inches wide of dark gray mineral (hematite?) with gold the size of wheat kernels that can be picked out with a knife, when you crawl into the mine look up and to the right to see the veins (not a funnel).

The "Pit Mine" (Silver Chief) is not the LDM, rich as it was.

The ONLY thing anybody can say with 100% authority is that 99% of everything publicly known about the LDM is BS. HAHAHA Why do you think it hasn't been found yet? I have always said that no Dutch Hunter will likely ever find it. Some Birkenstock wearing, Patchouli stinking, hippie (who has never heard of the LDM) will probably be out on a nature hike, and accidentally stick his leg through the covering, and become famous! HAHAHA

Mike

I can Agree Mike, There was a hiest. But I’ll not agree on White, The white Quarts and Gold comes into the Ledgen around the seventy’s Thats when the aledged and known comes into main stream ledgen. Kindda a high grading of the Ledgen

Babymick1

 

[azdave35]

I can Agree Mike, There was a hiest. But I’ll not agree on White, The white Quarts and Gold comes into the Ledgen around the seventy’s Thats when the aledged and known comes into main stream ledgen. Kindda a high grading of the Ledgen

Babymick1

you still on the rose quartz theory?

 

[wrmickel1]

you still on the rose quartz theory?

Well, Sure

From the Time of Julia it was Rose, Some claim she said that. By the 70’s on to present day it changed to white authenticated Dutchman’s Ore. A Hundred Years Rose Quarts and the last fifty White. Not to mention Dutchman’s directions so bad that Julia went to the face of the main mountain and camped. Why go miles out of your way instead of follow the directions.

Babymick1

PS I went to Franks cave and it’s a mess



In 2009 it was shaved and by 2019 it was hammered

 

[wrmickel1]

Dave

The View of the main Mountain where Julia camped



Why

Wrmickel1

 

[azdave35]

Dave

The View of the main Mountain where Julia camped

View attachment 1686142

Why

Wrmickel1

why did she camp at the main mountain?.....probably because she was a total greenhorn and didn't know her rump from a hole in the ground..think about it mick...back then there were no road signs...no markers..most of the places were named by individuals and only they knew the location...we now have road signs and trail markers every where...if you took your average woman and tried to give here directions to find a mine in the superstition wilderness...she probably wouldn't even be able to find the mountain..lol...think about it mick

 

[wrmickel1]

Awe Dave she had 2 dudes with her and like you said they had trails to follow and none more prominent then the military trail. One they followed till a point they were to leave the trail. They headed east from the trail not North. No we’re near the bulldog.

Wrmickel1