Alignment of Weavers Needle and 4 Peaks and other questions

[gollum]

Mike and Roy,

There are way too many sources to quote here, so I will use only one.

"In addition to surplus grains, the missions sold various kinds of livestock each year. Horses, mules, sheep, yearlings, and beef cattle raised in the pueblos supplied the presidios and reales de minas with meat, pack animals, oxen and mounts. Missionaries received payment in géneros -cloth, chocolate, sugar, tobacco, wax, soap, wine, and the like -- or in refined, but unminted marcos of silver." (Emphasis in bold by Joe)

"Wandering Peoples: Colonialism, Ethnic Spaces, and Ecological Frontiers in Northwestern Mexico, 1700-1850" by, Cynthia Radding
Pages 79-80

Should you read this book, you will learn a great deal about Mission income. I have two fine first editions.....be happy to sell one.

Joe

Hey Joe,

I just got a reply from Dr. Radding. I sent her pictures of the bars and asked her if she thought it possible or impossible that Jesuits engaged in mining operations in Primeria Alta. This was the first line of her response (the rest referred me to the Ethnohistory Files at the UofAz):

Dear Mr. McChesney,

Your message is quite intriguing, concerning the Pimeria Alta. I do not know for sure whether the Jesuits actually engaged in mining in Sonora.

Doesn't sound as definitive as what you read does it? That's why I like to go to the horse's mouth (so to speak).

Best,

Mike

 

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[cactusjumper]

Mike,

You have a habit of reading way more into a post than is really there. I used Dr. Radding's comments to show that the Jesuits were paid for supplying the mines.....with "marcos of silver"....Nothing else.

That has nothing to do with whether she believes the Jesuits were directly involved in mining.

Considering the way you posed the question, you should consider becoming a pollster for one political party or the other.

Try to focus on what I actually write, rather than what you hope to read.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

That wasn't the terminology I used. I just briefed it for the post. If you wish, I will post the exact email (outgoing and incoming).

I absolutely may have OVERREAD your intentions in your post. Knowing your feelings concerning Jesuit Mining, I took your post to be more proof of evidence that they didn't mine. If that was not the case, I apologize.

and after rereading your post, it still looks like you are further making the case for your position that the Jesuits did not mine. I think it mostly because I know how you feel about the subject. I think that if I knew nothing about your stance, I might have taken it differently.

Best,

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Dang, CJ is anything wrong? Just curious, seems your posts have been a bit 'testy' of late. Of course it could simply be your dry humor that could be read in other ways. I hope all is well with you.

your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Dang, CJ is anything wrong? Just curious, seems your posts have been a bit 'testy' of late. Of course it could simply be your dry humor that could be read in other ways. I hope all is well with you.

your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

You're noticing that too Roy? So was I, but didn't want to be the Lone Ranger.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Rest assured that it is simply my heavy handed attempts at humor. I try to insert as many ... ... ... 's as possible, but need Carolyn looking over my shoulder to tell me I'm not being funny.

I grew up in a, mostly, male family environment. We really gave no quarter on the teasing, and I fear it has spoiled many a social event for me. I am seldom invited to weddings, bar mitzvahs, wakes and similar social gatherings. I sometimes wonder if it's due to my brusk manner, or the snub nose .38 I habitually carry to such things.

I promise to make every effort to be less offensive in the future, but the .38 will continue to accompany me to all social events. Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean no one is out to get me.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Joe,

You're not being offensive (to me anyway) at all. Just seemed like you weren't in the best of spirits.

Trust me, I have seen you being offensive at your best (at the original LDM Forums ).

Here is a pic of an old friend to help boost your spirits!

Best-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA mi amigos Mike and Joe!

Sometimes my dull wit is slow to determine what is comedy and what is not, which is no fault of yours.

A side note here but there IS someone out to "get you" - or rather a whole arm of government, the IRS - when you haul out those gold bars, they will be a-waiting with open hands for their cut!

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

your friend,
Roy

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"A side note here but there IS someone out to "get you" - or rather a whole arm of government, the IRS - when you haul out those gold bars, they will be a-waiting with open hands for their cut!"

The hell you say! They must have been waiting at the wrong trailhead. Never saw hide nor hair from one of those critters.

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

"my 270 WSM Ruger. 3 by 9 by 50mm nikon agrees with you Cj"

Good.... I was worried they wouldn't.

Joe

 

[gollum]

Here is a pic of an old friend to help boost your spirits!
Best-Mike

Missed, it's the one to the right.

I just went back and reread your PM. I missed the Black Jacket part. No wonder I didn't get a rise out of Joe!




Best-Mike

 

[Old Dog]

Bowman,

Please explain what your last post just said.

Thankyou
Old Dog

 

[cactusjumper]

Old Dog,

You assume too much here.

Joe

 

[Old Dog]

Joe,
I assume nothing YET.
When someone says they would take if they can't find.

That in itself is a whole nother can of worms.

The lack of a response says a lot as well.

I would really like to hear what Bowman has to say about it.

Any honesty I gave him credit for is out the window
freudian slips .. isn't that what they are called?

OD

 

[Old Dog]

Thanks Beth,
I appreciate the input from both Joe and your self.

But I have a hard time believing that Bowman meant anything without a response.

Maybe I just work too hard, I stay tired all the time,and am too easily touched off....
But I am also believing that it would benefit the bowman to think before he types. and read again and edit before he posts.
Many people would interpret the wrong thing into a statement like that. It's dangerous to even think that way, You guys know as well as I do that a LOT of folks do think that way.

Quick way to get hurt don't you think?

.........................................................BB?

 

[cactusjumper]

Old Dog,

You assume he can tell you what was meant by that post. He has told us that many times he doesn't even know what he writes. His posts often seem to be coming from someone deeply under the influence of drugs. Considering his past, that does not seem like too much of a stretch.

Joe

 

[Old Dog]

Joe,
at this point I will agree whole heartedly.
I apologise to all if I have broken the thread.

OD

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ALLO Mr BETH: As for the LDM, remember from my former posts, when you have to haul your mining equipment and explosives for months at a time on a very dangerous trail, you do not use explosives except where extremely necessary.

You do your mining the hard way with hand labor, fire etc. As a result you do not remove any more materiel than is absolutely necessary.

This leads me to believe that "yes he did find a Spanish mine" , and as a result, it will be very hard to find again since it may well just resemble a crack or minor fault, one in which a man (small) could just barely wriggle into.

I have entered a few of these, and believe me, they are SCARY! I shudder to think that men had to work in there once.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

Problem is, your words ring a little hollow, after some of the things you have said here and on other forums.

Creating a new strain of the most powerful cannabis in the world (your characterization) is harming many, many people. It finds it's way into our school systems, turning children into zombies......and worse. When people start into the drug world it's only a short trip into lying, cheating and steeling to maintain their new lifestyle.

The trouble and pain you have caused is much like tossing a rock into a still pool. The rock sinks to the bottom while causing ripples that travel far beyond their starting point.

People like you, have no problems with what they do, as they rationalize they are hurting no one. The human wreckage and pain are often at the far end of the pool.

Your posts here and elswhere have shown everyone, with an ounce of common sense, the kind of person you are. Your fine sounding appraisal of yourself will only ring true with one person......You.

On the other hand, I pray it's all true but.... If it looks like a duck........etc.

Best of luck,

Joe Ribaudo