Did dick Holmes father ever help search for the ldm?

[azdave35]

Emory Taylor

emory and i were never friends...supposedly..and i say SUPPOSEDLY...he found some amethyst at the burns ranch off peralta road

 

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[sailaway]

that is why I stated a friend of a friend. He was Crawford's friend. I believe 100% the story's that were relayed to me by my good friend about the goings on in the mountains.

 

[azdave35]

that is why I stated a friend of a friend. he was Crawford's friend

sorry..i misread...did you know emory?

 

[sailaway]

No, the closest I have come to that group was witnessing the scattering of Crawford's remains.

 

[wrmickel1]

Dave, must of misunderstood me to, I said I found some well over a year ago and more a week ago, Then you say,there is none,Dave! I Don’t know where the Burns Ranch is But I’m sure It’s mostly a stone throw away.

Sailaway, I’d sure like to here the story behind the Burns Ranch Amethyst

babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Dave, must of misunderstood me to, I said I found some well over a year ago and more a week ago, Then you say,there is none,Dave! I Don’t know where the Burns Ranch is But I’m sure It’s mostly a stone throw away.

Sailaway, I’d sure like to here the story behind the Burns Ranch Amethyst

babymick1

the amethyst that emory supposedly found on burns ranch was supposedly buried by chuck crawford..burns ranch is on the road going to the superstitions...emory came up with alot of b.s. which nobody believed....

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good morning All: As I recall this post was to be about; "Did Dick Holmes father ever search for the LDM". It is not the place to discuss Amethyst or "BICKERING" between posters. If you want to discuss something else other that the subject I would suggest you start another thread. You might also want to start a "Bickering thread". I am tired of posters hijacking these post buy interjecting none related subjects, etc. Now lets get back to the subject of this post and take your bickering and none related subjects somewhere else. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[azdave35]

greg...i dont think posts really get hijacked...people just run out of things to say on the subject ...if you want to get the subject back on topic put up a couple posts... you probably know more about the holmes saga than anyone here

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Personally, I have never seen anything in print that R.J. Holmes Sr. (Richard) engaged in any serious search for the LDM with R.J. Holmes Jr.(Dick). I don’t think that means a whole lot, as why would they talk about it?

What many may not know is that R.J. Holmes Sr. was not only an Onyx miner, but also a gold miner. He had a gold mine and a mill site claim not far from Ash Spring. He claimed both the mine and the mill site in 1883.

Matthew probably knows right where that mine is

 

[azdave35]

Personally, I have never seen anything in print that R.J. Holmes Sr. (Richard) engaged in any serious search for the LDM with R.J. Holmes Jr.(Dick). I don’t think that means a whole lot, as why would they talk about it?

What many may not know is that R.J. Holmes Sr. was not only an Onyx miner, but also a gold miner. He had a gold mine and a mill site claim not far from Ash Spring. He claimed both the mine and the mill site in 1883.

Matthew probably knows right where that mine is

jim...i also have never seen anything about holmes sr looking for the ldm..my guess is he was probably too old after waltz died

 

[PotBelly Jim]

jim...i also have never seen anything about holmes sr looking for the ldm..my guess is he was probably too old after waltz died

Dave, you may be right but I don’t think Richard Sr. was too old. I think he and Richard Jr. had a bit of a falling out in 1889, I don’t think they were all that close. Just my opinion.

 

[azdave35]

Dave, you may be right but I don’t think Richard Sr. was too old. I think he and Richard Jr. had a bit of a falling out in 1889, I don’t think they were all that close. Just my opinion.

lol....that doesn't surprise ..most father and son don't get along

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Good morning All: As I recall this post was to be about; "Did Dick Holmes father ever search for the LDM". It is not the place to discuss Amethyst or "BICKERING" between posters. If you want to discuss something else other that the subject I would suggest you start another thread. You might also want to start a "Bickering thread". I am tired of posters hijacking these post buy interjecting none related subjects, etc. Now lets get back to the subject of this post and take your bickering and none related subjects somewhere else. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Hello Greg, ..... I agree with you 100%, I post very rarely on Tnet any longer because every serious topic is quickly taken over by the personal attack bunch or those who want every topic to be about them. Trying to get the thread back on track is useless because the hijackers just double down with their tactics.

Old RJ Holmes and his son Dick did have a serious falling out that centered around RJ Sr. abandoning his wife, Dicks mother. They divorced and Mrs. Holmes moved to Pasadena and eventually remarried. She died in Pasadena and is buried there. When RJ Holmes Sr. died in Phoenix he was buried in Greenwood cemetery in an unmarked grave. Brownie was the only one of the family to attend his grandfather's funeral.

RJ Sr. was the partner of Tom Woodson, together they dealt in mining property but had given up prospecting in the 1870's.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Hello Greg, ..... I agree with you 100%, I post very rarely on Tnet any longer because every serious topic is quickly taken over by the personal attack bunch or those who want every topic to be about them. Trying to get the thread back on track is useless because the hijackers just double down with their tactics.

Old RJ Holmes and his son Dick did have a serious falling out that centered around RJ Sr. abandoning his wife, Dicks mother. They divorced and Mrs. Holmes moved to Pasadena and eventually remarried. She died in Pasadena and is buried there. When RJ Holmes Sr. died in Phoenix he was buried in Greenwood cemetery in an unmarked grave. Brownie was the only one of the family to attend his grandfather's funeral.

RJ Sr. was the partner of Tom Woodson, together they dealt in mining property but had given up prospecting in the 1870's.

Matthew, I believe you meant James Woodson, he went by J.B. Woodson. He was partners with RJ Holmes Sr. in the Dolly Varden(among other things). They discovered it in 1890.

There was some confusion at one point about which “Dick” Holmes was reported in the papers as having had the onyx mine, Sr. or Jr., but everything I’ve found makes it pretty clear it was RJ Holmes Sr. and his partner JB Woodson that had the onyx mine. They executed an agreement to sell the mine to Aaron Mason in 1891, but I don’t know what ever became of it. Mason had to meet certain conditions in order to keep the mine, or it would revert back to Woodson and Holmes…never looked any further into it to see what happened.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Matthew, I believe you meant James Woodson, he went by J.B. Woodson. He was partners with RJ Holmes Sr. in the Dolly Varden(among other things). They discovered it in 1890.

There was some confusion at one point about which “Dick” Holmes was reported in the papers as having had the onyx mine, Sr. or Jr., but everything I’ve found makes it pretty clear it was RJ Holmes Sr. and his partner JB Woodson that had the onyx mine. They executed an agreement to sell the mine to Aaron Mason in 1891, but I don’t know what ever became of it. Mason had to meet certain conditions in order to keep the mine, or it would revert back to Woodson and Holmes…never looked any further into it to see what happened.

Jim, ..... I'm sure you are right about JB Woodson. There were several Woodsons one even being in Dick Holmes wedding party and unless I'm looking at my notes I do confuse them. Yes, old RJ Sr. and Woodson had many mining deals together. The
older Holmes had given up prospecting due to a heart condition and concentrated on buying and selling and developing mines.

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good afternoon Matthew: You might want to clear some confusion about the Holmes Family. There was Browne, Browne's father, Browne's Grandfather. The names are very close to each other so a chronicle listing of the male members of the Homes family
might be of help in this post. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Good afternoon Matthew: You might want to clear some confusion about the Holmes Family. There was Browne, Browne's father, Browne's Grandfather. The names are very close to each other so a chronicle listing of the male members of the Homes family
might be of help in this post. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Greg, .... You are correct, Dick Holmes and his father were often confused with each other even in one or two news articles.

It gets even worse as old RJ Holmes, Brownies grandfather and father of Dick Holmes was himself RJ Holmes Jr. as his father was RJ Holmes also. In other words there were three generations of Richard James Holmes in the family. Brownie, whose real name was George Brown Holmes, broke the family name tradition of RJ Holmes.

 

[azdave35]

azdave35, ..... As you know, gold ore in quartz from the same vein can vary greatly in color and composition. I have seen gold quartz matrix from pure white to grey to black all in a few feet of a lode vein. Rarely is the quartz matrix one single color. I have seen and handled all the known dutchman ore, the matchbox, rings, stick pin, links and remaining ore samples. The variation of the color of the quartz matrix covers a wide spectrum.

what your saying is very true..i have seen it many times myself...i was just thinking that because it all came from under waltz's bed...it was all from the same vein structure ..but who knows...that box may have contained a mixture of ore he collected from different parts of a vein...or from the dump...who really knows at this point

 

[deducer]

greg...i dont think posts really get hijacked...people just run out of things to say on the subject ...if you want to get the subject back on topic put up a couple posts... you probably know more about the holmes saga than anyone here

I know I'm coming across this late, but:

Dave, you didn't start the bickering, but it takes two to bicker.

As I've tried to mention so many times on this forum and others, the best way to avoid trolls is to stop feeding the trolls. They aren't here to discuss facts, they're here for attention.

 

[somehiker]

I see he's got himself banned again. No surprise there.
I agree with the idea that the known LDM ore samples which are still around could represent more than one source Waltz worked at different times.
His modus seemed to be one of retrieving lesser amounts of rich ore as convenient, and as he had a necessity for. He certainly didn't live large, much less as a millionaire. By all accounts, that is the way he wanted it. And later on, when his supply was getting low, his plan was that he would just go out and get some more from one of his caches near the mine. He wouldn't wait until his candle box was empty, therefore, one or more of what Holmes wound up with at the end, could very well have been leftover inventory from one of Waltz's previous ventures.
I also think a similar circumstance may have applied to the Matchbox ore, in that Goldman most likely purchased or traded gold ore from other individuals, as well as JW. Given that probability, along with the history of the Matchbox as shared by Matthew previously, is it not possible the "picture" ore sent away by Goldman when the Matchbox was commissioned, could have been from an entirely different source, although very similar in apperance, not related to Waltz at all ?