Legend vs Realitiy
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  1. #1

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Legend vs Realitiy

    we all seek the truth ,was there a Lost Dutchman Mine or not ? we all know if there was we most likely will here about it being found first and be happy that someone found it ...some of of us paid a price for looking for the legend . some of us will be paying till our dying day ...I think back to a time when me and my brother hiked up cardiac mountain . 2/3 of the way up the mountain he started bleeding out the noise . when I saw it I stopped and ask him to set down and don't move .. he wanted to reach the top of the mountain but I said stop and wait get control of your self first ,so we stopped and waited about 15 minutes we would go a few dozen yards then rest , we did that 5 or 6 times before we reach the top of the mountain ,his doctor would latter say this saved his life but it didn't end there ,he would live the rest of his life with a bad heart condition that would make the last 7 years of his life one of suffering and pain ... he loved the hunt and we spent many hours talking about the LDM ..the next expedition I would make alone and tell no one ...I had found most of the clues and then I realized where the mine was as I walked up the tailing pile I came to a place where there was one way out and only one way in , I stood there for about 10 minutes think what now Waltz were you full of **** or is there a reason for leaving me standing here like a fool ..I reached out and slap my hands on a large rock and I herd a cracking sound under me about 2 ft down under the tailing pile I was standing on the mine ... I turn and ran for my life , I came so close to being killed . I ran 300 yards before I stop to catch my breath ,and I look back and realize I had been standing on top of the fill Waltz covered the mine with ...the next morning I left and headed home back to NY by my self but not alone ,for the next 7 years 6 of my family and friends would die ,one each year ,after 7 years I said what next then Ron got sicker and the 7 years of surfing started for him as I watched now it is over and he rest and waits for me to go back one more time ...they say it is the richest gold mine in the world , then I ask you , why don't I feel happy about finding it ...? almost all my family is gone or dying and here I wait and I know I will be going back ....Waltz was Dutch Germany . just like me . I could hear him yelling come back , come back . I still do at times .. he was happy to know it had been found ...is this why Waltz did not want Julia to work the mine, when he covered the mine over he did not realize what would happen . the timbers are old and weak now and the mine is a trap waiting to kill the person that finds it . but I was lucky and ran like the wind for my life no matter how much Gold was just below my feet ... now I set here telling you my story ..I don't feel lucky . I don't feel rich or rewarded for the hard battle ..I am just sad so many people have lost their life hunting for a gold color rock .. ,now I know how Waltz felt when he ran for his life and knew where the richest gold mine in the world was waiting for him to return and now it waits for me ...!
    Last edited by Blindbowman; Aug 24, 2019 at 11:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2017
    589
    1693 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Great read about you and your brother Ron in the mountains, BB. Also, very sorry to hear of your losses over the last 7 or so years. Hope the pain of that eases, about all we can ever hope for.

    Are you going to head back out there for one more try?

  3. #3

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    yes I am ... I don't have to hunt for it . I move some distance away from where I was . but the fact is a fact Waltz was giving his will the truth about the mine then he mixed up a few of the details and then Dick Holmes mixed up a few of the details and that's why Dick Holmes never found it .. but if he had .. most likely it would have caved in with him standing on top of it .. but there is a few things I want to do first .. I got a cache to find . I know its there from what he said in the will ...I am not to sure how to open the mine , its dangerous and should have a few people there when its opened ,its not deep but still falling 15 ft in to a rock mine shaft would not be much fun.. if I can get pictures of it and a ore sample to prove it is the real LDM . I am good with that . I can get enough ore off the tailing pile to keep me these last few years ..i don't want to read a book sell anything or be rich ...just want to prove the mine was real . i cant see any reason why Waltz would cover the mine that way if there was no Gold in it ... from i can tell he was telling everyone the truth in the bed time letter ,Dick only took the letter ,IMHO Waltz was most likely dead when he took it .. i don't think he had anything to do with Waltz's death ,he just saw a chance to be rich and had no idea Waltz had changed things in the letter just in case someone took it with out him giving it to them ...to be honest with you i always wondered why Waltz had put the Peralta stones where they were found knowing the tunnel was on the wrong side ...see Weiser never saw the stones . Waltz did !

  4. #4

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    yes I am ... I don't have to hunt for it . I move some distance away from where I was . but the fact is a fact Waltz was giving his will the truth about the mine then he mixed up a few of the details and then Dick Holmes mixed up a few of the details and that's why Dick Holmes never found it .. but if he had .. most likely it would have caved in with him standing on top of it .. but there is a few things I want to do first .. I got a cache to find . I know its there from what he said in the will ...I am not to sure how to open the mine , its dangerous and should have a few people there when its opened ,its not deep but still falling 15 ft in to a rock mine shaft would not be much fun.. if I can get pictures of it and a ore sample to prove it is the real LDM . I am good with that . I can get enough ore off the tailing pile to keep me these last few years ..i don't want to read a book sell anything or be rich ...just want to prove the mine was real . i cant see any reason why Waltz would cover the mine that way if there was no Gold in it ... from i can tell he was telling everyone the truth in the bed time letter ,Dick only took the letter ,IMHO Waltz was most likely dead when he took it .. i don't think he had anything to do with Waltz's death ,he just saw a chance to be rich and had no idea Waltz had changed things in the letter just in case someone took it with out him giving it to them ...to be honest with you i always wondered why Waltz had put the Peralta stones where they were found knowing the tunnel was on the wrong side ...see Weiser never saw the stones . Waltz did ! see Weiser took the grave stones off the 3 Peralta graves that Waltz had killed . he got him self killed . , see Weiser made the grave stones why Waltz was gone then he put them on the 3 graves big mistake that told the Apache where he was ..he had made some of the directions to the mine from the Peralta stones but you don't see it , but one of the stone crosses is still missing , if you had all 3 crosses you could have relocated the mine .., Weiser knew that and took the crosses so he could find the mine again some day ..he never knew where waltz hide the stones ..that's what he was telling Julia about the horse ...Julia was so focused on finding the mine she was not listening to what Waltz said . he was telling her how to find the Peralta stones ...see Waltz made the crosses but he did not put them on the graves ...Weiser did that's how the Apache found him ..,how do i know this . Weiser said he left a horse . waltz needed a horse to take the stones to hide them . Waltz made changes on the stone the same way he did in the letter that's how i knew ...see the first Peralta made the stones and sent them back to the family in Mexico ,when they were all killed off , the second group of Peralta in Mexico used the stones to relocate the mine , that's how the stones got to the Peralta camp site ...then Waltz took them and hide them but he made changes that proves he was the one that put the stones where they were found , but the man that found them lied about where he found them ...see if the Peralta had made changes they would not have known where the stones were hide and Waltz changes would not have been added and he was the only one alive that knew where the stones were hide and he made the changes when he hide them ,this tells me it was Waltz that hide them ..so in reality , the will and the stones were as real as the mine ...some where between the mine and where Weiser was found is the missing 3rd stone cross !

  5. #5

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    yes I am ... I don't have to hunt for it . I move some distance away from where I was . but the fact is a fact Waltz was giving his will the truth about the mine then he mixed up a few of the details and then Dick Holmes mixed up a few of the details and that's why Dick Holmes never found it .. but if he had .. most likely it would have caved in with him standing on top of it .. but there is a few things I want to do first .. I got a cache to find . I know its there from what he said in the will ...I am not to sure how to open the mine , its dangerous and should have a few people there when its opened ,its not deep but still falling 15 ft in to a rock mine shaft would not be much fun.. if I can get pictures of it and a ore sample to prove it is the real LDM . I am good with that . I can get enough ore off the tailing pile to keep me these last few years ..i don't want to read a book sell anything or be rich ...just want to prove the mine was real . i cant see any reason why Waltz would cover the mine that way if there was no Gold in it ... from i can tell he was telling everyone the truth in the bed time letter ,Dick only took the letter ,IMHO Waltz was most likely dead when he took it .. i don't think he had anything to do with Waltz's death ,he just saw a chance to be rich and had no idea Waltz had changed things in the letter just in case someone took it with out him giving it to them ...to be honest with you i always wondered why Waltz had put the Peralta stones where they were found knowing the tunnel was on the wrong side ...see Weiser never saw the stones . Waltz did ! see Weiser took the grave stones of 3 Peralta graves that Waltz had killed . Waltz made the stone but would not put them on the graves ..Weiser got him self killed . , see Weiser took the grave stones why Waltz was gone then he put them on the 3 graves ,big mistake that told the Apache where he was ..he had made some of the directions to the mine from the Peralta stones but you don't see it , because one of the 3 stone crosses is still missing , if you had all 3 crosses you could have relocated the mine .., Weiser knew that and took the crosses so he could find the mine again some day ..he never knew where waltz hide the stones ..that's what he was telling Julia about the horse ...Julia was so focused on finding the mine she was not listening to what Waltz said . he was telling her how to find the Peralta stones ...see Waltz made the crosses but he did not put them on the graves ...Weiser did that's how the Apache found him ..,how do i know this . Weiser said he left a horse . waltz needed a horse to take the stones to hide them . Waltz made changes on the stone the same way he did in the letter that's how i knew ...see the first Peralta made the stones and sent them back to the family in Mexico ,when they were all killed off , the second group of Peralta in Mexico used the stones to relocate the mine , that's how the stones got to the Peralta camp site ...then Waltz took them and hide them but he made changes that proves he was the one that put the stones where they were found , but the man that found them lied about where he found them ...see if the Peralta had made changes they would not have known where the stones were hide and Waltz changes would not have been added and he was the only one alive that knew where the stones were hide and he made the changes when he hide them ,this tells me it was Waltz that hide them ..so in reality , the will and the stones were as real as the mine ...some where between the mine and where Weiser was found is the missing 3rd stone cross !

  6. #6

    May 2019
    188
    174 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindbowman View Post
    yes I am ... I don't have to hunt for it . I move some distance away from where I was . but the fact is a fact Waltz was giving his will the truth about the mine then he mixed up a few of the details and then Dick Holmes mixed up a few of the details and that's why Dick Holmes never found it .. but if he had .. most likely it would have caved in with him standing on top of it .. but there is a few things I want to do first .. I got a cache to find . I know its there from what he said in the will ...I am not to sure how to open the mine , its dangerous and should have a few people there when its opened ,its not deep but still falling 15 ft in to a rock mine shaft would not be much fun.. if I can get pictures of it and a ore sample to prove it is the real LDM . I am good with that . I can get enough ore off the tailing pile to keep me these last few years ..i don't want to read a book sell anything or be rich ...just want to prove the mine was real . i cant see any reason why Waltz would cover the mine that way if there was no Gold in it ... from i can tell he was telling everyone the truth in the bed time letter ,Dick only took the letter ,IMHO Waltz was most likely dead when he took it .. i don't think he had anything to do with Waltz's death ,he just saw a chance to be rich and had no idea Waltz had changed things in the letter just in case someone took it with out him giving it to them ...to be honest with you i always wondered why Waltz had put the Peralta stones where they were found knowing the tunnel was on the wrong side ...see Weiser never saw the stones . Waltz did ! see Weiser took the grave stones off the 3 Peralta graves that Waltz had killed . he got him self killed . , see Weiser made the grave stones why Waltz was gone then he put them on the 3 graves big mistake that told the Apache where he was ..he had made some of the directions to the mine from the Peralta stones but you don't see it , but one of the stone crosses is still missing , if you had all 3 crosses you could have relocated the mine .., Weiser knew that and took the crosses so he could find the mine again some day ..he never knew where waltz hide the stones ..that's what he was telling Julia about the horse ...Julia was so focused on finding the mine she was not listening to what Waltz said . he was telling her how to find the Peralta stones ...see Waltz made the crosses but he did not put them on the graves ...Weiser did that's how the Apache found him ..,how do i know this . Weiser said he left a horse . waltz needed a horse to take the stones to hide them . Waltz made changes on the stone the same way he did in the letter that's how i knew ...see the first Peralta made the stones and sent them back to the family in Mexico ,when they were all killed off , the second group of Peralta in Mexico used the stones to relocate the mine , that's how the stones got to the Peralta camp site ...then Waltz took them and hide them but he made changes that proves he was the one that put the stones where they were found , but the man that found them lied about where he found them ...see if the Peralta had made changes they would not have known where the stones were hide and Waltz changes would not have been added and he was the only one alive that knew where the stones were hide and he made the changes when he hide them ,this tells me it was Waltz that hide them ..so in reality , the will and the stones were as real as the mine ...some where between the mine and where Weiser was found is the missing 3rd stone cross !


    Bowman, I am having, trouble with my computer also.
    Last edited by arcana-exploration; Aug 25, 2019 at 08:05 AM. Reason: bad taste.

  7. #7

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I was having problems with my internet ,, but what this means , is the stones are real . the 3rd stone cross is still missing . the crosses came from the Jesuits and then Waltz made the drawings on them ,but he did not put them on the graves but Weiser did when Waltz was gone for supplies . Weiser believe Waltz was dead and took the stone crosses off the graves so he could find the mine again .. Waltz comes back thinks Weiser is dead and takes the horse and stones and get the hell out of there . when he gets free of the mountains Waltz makes changes to the stones and hides them.

  8. #8
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2017
    589
    1693 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindbowman View Post
    I was having problems with my internet ,, but what this means , is the stones are real . the 3rd stone cross is still missing . the crosses came from the Jesuits and then Waltz made the drawings on them ,but he did not put them on the graves but Weiser did when Waltz was gone for supplies . Weiser believe Waltz was dead and took the stone crosses off the graves so he could find the mine again .. Waltz comes back thinks Weiser is dead and takes the horse and stones and get the hell out of there . when he gets free of the mountains Waltz makes changes to the stones and hides them.
    Glad to hear you are going back! I've never looked for the mine myself, but have always hoped one day that someone would find it.

    It seems to me that you've given many aspects of the legend, the maps etc. a great deal of thought. How did you first become interested in the LDM?

    Take care, Jim

  9. #9

    May 2019
    188
    174 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I hope you get to feeling better, I had three heart surgeries in one-week last, it takes a while to get back. You know you have been to a place that most people can only dream about. And as you know unless you have been in those mountains on foot, you cannot understand it's uniqueness. You have been lucky, as have I. Hope you feel better soon. Jeff.

  10. #10

    May 2019
    188
    174 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Bowman hope you feel better soon. Jeff.

  11. #11

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    Glad to hear you are going back! I've never looked for the mine myself, but have always hoped one day that someone would find it.

    It seems to me that you've given many aspects of the legend, the maps etc. a great deal of thought. How did you first become interested in the LDM?

    Take care, Jim
    my father read me part of the Killer Mountains ,,,and pointed me at the legend and started the chain reaction ..

    let me add something to the above sequences of the stones .. see the first Don Miguel Peralta in the first group of Peralta families from what I read was a man of strong faith . I believe when he found the mines he ask the Jesuits to build a small one room church near the mine , the Apache saw this so close to their wholly place they left it be but when the Peralta started mining the Thunder Gods Gold that was just to much and they massacred them, but before they did , that first Don sent the stones back to the Family in Mexico ..and what looks like the remains of that Jesuit church is 50 yards from the mine today ...as far as the Apache wholly place . I have stayed away from it being part Mohawk I respect their tribe and when I go near the site I see ghost of Aztecs playing ball and spirits of the Apache gray feathers a place not for white men ....do not step on to this ground , they will kill you ...or make you wish you were dead ...I realize what was happening when Weise told the doctor about the tunnel down below . the fact is the Peralta / Ruth map and the Peralta stones show that tunnel across the way on the hill side ...but go look what Waltz says in the bed time confession letter ...see this is why waltz said he did not kill Weiser . but he saw Weiser had taken the crosses ..Waltz never showed the stones to Weiser this I am sure of ...or Weiser would have taken them or just made a map and left the mine but he takes the 3 stone crosses that Waltz made he knows Waltz made them and thinks they are a map ,but I think Waltz made them to test Weiser to see if he would take them ..in that way Weiser would make it look like Waltz had killed him and not the apache , but you see Waltz had no way of knowing if Weiser was dead or not at the time ..so yes there is a 3rd cross out there waiting to be found ...

  12. #12
    us
    Chuck Chatsko

    Jun 2012
    HOUSTON
    Garrett pro-something
    377
    408 times
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    I`m sorry but I find it hard to believe that you ran 300 yards before stopping to catch your breath
    Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

  13. #13

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by 393stroker View Post
    I`m sorry but I find it hard to believe that you ran 300 yards before stopping to catch your breath
    when I was young I was a 5 mile runner ,that's why my legs are having problems now ...you wait till your out there and something like that happens to you .. I saw a guy come out of mountain white as sheet and get in car left his tent and everything right there and drove away ..that's the reality of these mountains .. I have see some wild things happen and there was no logical reason for it ... I saw two young people in their mid 20"s hiking I was resting back a few feet from the trail when a few minutes latter here sneaks by a man with his hand on his side arm like he was tracking them ...for what .. who knows ...I think legend is the lest crazy thing out there now days ...I seat down to rest one time and just was taking my time and I saw a Apache setting on a cliff with his feet hanging over the edge and he was just watching people walking on the trail ...then a man with a map walk pass me and the Apache vanished like wind ... there was no way he could have gotten down from up there with out me seeing him ..some how he got down from up there with out me seeing him .. he never knew I was there . I watch him for over a hour before he vanished ,I saw other Apache out there but I will not say what they were doing ..

  14. #14
    us
    Aug 2018
    SW Missouri
    Garrett All Terrain Pro
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    Are there any LDM books worth reading? Websites? And Blindbowman, when you go back are you gonna show proof of what you found?
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  15. #15

    Aug 2007
    1,303
    262 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    Are there any LDM books worth reading? Websites? And Blindbowman, when you go back are you gonna show proof of what you found?
    there are a lot of great books out there and a lot of great video , but if I was to pick a few . first off the hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness ...The Lost Dutchman Mine by Sims Ely,,, and The Killer Mountains but there are some details in the book that are speculation .. but a good over all read ... .for anyone interested in going into the mts the video will give you the best over sight ...but that's why I listed the guide first it has a good listing of the trails and over all lay of the land ...your on the best treasure web site right now ...lol yes ,I already have some photo but I have to wait to see if the large cache is there first ,I am still like most I have to cover my over head cost so I can keep doing what I do .. I put $36 thousand and maybe as much as $42 thousand out of pocket so far ,treasure hunting dose cost and often any profits is year of hard research ...some people made crazy foolish mistakes in hunting and detailing their sites ...let me point one of the worst mistakes that I have seen and so many have fallen for it ... "first water " the first water everyone looks for north of weaver's needle was not named until years after Waltz death , that is no even the same first water Waltz was talking about . he was talking about the first water on the Peralta Stones and latter the details showed up on the Peralta /Ruth map .. Agua ! see I told you all that waltz had seen the stones before the stones were put where they were found , this is part of the evidence that out right proves Waltz was talking about the first water on the Peralta Stones ...see how some of the details from the stones shows up in the bed time confession letter I, would like to call it his will ....

 

 
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