The Farnk Fish Story
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  1. #1
    us
    Apr 2009
    239
    465 times

    The Farnk Fish Story

    The Frank Fish map and story has been around for many years but I never tried to figure out its provenance. Recently somehiker reposted a 2004 post by Greg Davis that explained the modern day provenance of the original Fish map. It piqued my interest and the question that I had was; How did the Fish map become associated with the Lost Dutchman Mine?

    Greg also mentioned that the story of how Fish got the map and how it became tied to the LDM was covered in an article he wrote for the Superstition Mountain Journal, Volume 12, 1994. His information was sourced from Lake Erie Schaefer Book “Deadmen Do Tell Tales”. Greg was also in personal contact with Erie and it’s possible some his article could have contained information contained in those contacts.

    I do have access to the SMJ article and Greg also lists as a source, Frank Fish’s book “Buried Treasure and Lost Mines”. Both Erie and Frank’s books are rare and I do not have access to either. I hope someone can share some details.

    Frank Fish’s Book

    From the internet I found the following information.

    Google Books (Bibliographic information)
    Title Buried Treasure and Lost Mines
    Author Frank L. Fish
    Publisher - Amador Trading Post, 1956
    Length 68 pages

    Amazon
    Written by treasure hunter and historian Frank L. Fish. 68 Pages. Includes 93 descriptions of treasure and mines. A must-read for treasure hunters. I also saw somewhere that 68 of the stories were based in California

    The 1956 date for the first publication appears in error as all of the other references list 1961 as the first publication. Greg’s article also uses the 1961 date.

    My questions:

    Does Frank’s book include the LDM story and is there any mention of a tie to the Fish Map? If someone has the book and can share the LDM portion it would be greatly appreciated.

    Can anyone verify the First Publication date of 1956 is in error? It’s messing up my chronology
    !


    From Erie’s book Greg relates that Fish was in contact with Erwin Ruth in 1915. Frank would have been 14 or 15 years old and a farm boy in Oklahoma. There are other elements of Frank’s story that also raise red flags but that will have to wait until I get my own copy of Erie’s book.

    At this point, this particular story seems to be an extremely weak tie of the Fish Map and the LDM. Greg mentions that Ruth’s map and been published (Arizona Highways - MY ASSUMPTION) and Frank recognized it as similar to his Map. Or perhaps it was sometime after Frank had seen the Ruth map that he created the Fish map himself?

    I’ll probably order the two books if I can find them for a reasonable price and maybe this will answer a lot of my own questions but any help will be appreciated.

    Garry
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  2. #2
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,507
    2453 times
    Gary,

    Hope this helps. If you want to borrow the title, message an address.

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    Edit: while the map isn’t mentioned specifically, Franks story could only have been written by someone familiar with the PF Map.
    Last edited by Hal Croves; Sep 07, 2019 at 09:12 AM.
    Oroblanco likes this.

  3. #3
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
    814
    3411 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Google Books (Bibliographic information)
    Title Buried Treasure and Lost Mines
    Author Frank L. Fish
    Publisher - Amador Trading Post, 1956
    Length 68 pages


    The 1956 date is a misprint error. The book is a third edition 1966. Someone typed or misread 1956 instead of 1966.

    Also the 1915 date of Frank Fish talking to Erwin Ruth is also a misprint error.
    Last edited by Matthew Roberts; Sep 07, 2019 at 12:56 PM.
    Oroblanco and coazon de oro like this.

  4. #4
    us
    Director of Research, Acquisitions, Archives and Library, Superstition Mountain Historical Society,and one of its founders, Member of Arizona First Families, Westerners, Arizona Historical Society, Central Arizona Museum Association and the Dons Club

    Oct 2013
    Tempe, Arizona
    eyeball it
    217
    706 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello All: The story of Frank Fish and The Peralta Map can be found in the book, "Dead Men Do tell Tales", by Lake Erie Schaefer. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

  5. #5
    us
    Jul 2015
    Phx. A.Z.
    541
    748 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Go to a public library and ask for the book. Here in Phoenix the library doesn't have it, so they borrow the book from a library in another state. That's how I did it.
    Oroblanco and Hal Croves like this.
    CHERISH EVERYTHING IN LIFE, IT ONLY HAPPENS ONCE.

  6. #6
    us
    Director of Research, Acquisitions, Archives and Library, Superstition Mountain Historical Society,and one of its founders, Member of Arizona First Families, Westerners, Arizona Historical Society, Central Arizona Museum Association and the Dons Club

    Oct 2013
    Tempe, Arizona
    eyeball it
    217
    706 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Dead Men Do Tell Tales, There is one available on eBay and two on bookfinders.com. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
    Oroblanco likes this.

  7. #7
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

    Jan 2006
    Arizona Vagrant
    Modded SD2000 / White's Goldmaster 4B / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID
    6,546
    6711 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The yellow softcover Treasure Book is not what you want. You want "Dead Men Do Tell Tales" by Lake Erie Schaefer. Kraig is correct as the First Edition date is 1961:

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    I have a first edition hardcover of "Dead Men Do Tell Tales". Here are the relevant pages of how Fish got the map:

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    Enjoy; Mike
    Last edited by gollum; Sep 08, 2019 at 06:25 PM.
    "You wouldn't like me when I'm mad, because I back up my rage with hard facts and logic!" - The Credible Hulk

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

  8. #8
    us
    Apr 2009
    239
    465 times
    Hal,

    I apologize for not providing a timely response. Thanks for the images. That is exactly the kind of Information I was hoping for!

    Before moving on from Frank’s book I have a couple of other questions.

    Does the book include any background (ie introduction, preface, forward)? [Images ]

    I see the stories were numbered. How many stories were included?

    We know that Frank’s occupation was described as an artist in several records and I found his sketch in the article preceding “The Lost Dutchman” interesting. Did he include other artwork in the article?

    Thanks again,

    Garry
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  9. #9
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,507
    2453 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    Hal,

    I apologize for not providing a timely response. Thanks for the images. That is exactly the kind of Information I was hoping for!

    Before moving on from Frank’s book I have a couple of other questions.

    Does the book include any background (ie introduction, preface, forward)? [Images ]

    I see the stories were numbered. How many stories were included?

    We know that Frank’s occupation was described as an artist in several records and I found his sketch in the article preceding “The Lost Dutchman” interesting. Did he include other artwork in the article?

    Thanks again,

    Garry
    Garry,

    I have two of Frank’s books and don’t mind passing them along. Both are worth reading. I am actually trying to locate the trailer that Frank lived in behind his museum, where he was found dead. I am also poking around the Amodor City records.

    Let me know.
    Oroblanco likes this.

  10. #10
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,507
    2453 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    Hal,

    I apologize for not providing a timely response. Thanks for the images. That is exactly the kind of Information I was hoping for!

    Before moving on from Frank’s book I have a couple of other questions.

    Does the book include any background (ie introduction, preface, forward)? [Images ]

    I see the stories were numbered. How many stories were included?

    We know that Frank’s occupation was described as an artist in several records and I found his sketch in the article preceding “The Lost Dutchman” interesting. Did he include other artwork in the article?

    Thanks again,

    Garry
    I think that this is the same Frank Fish.

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  11. #11
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,507
    2453 times
    Dead Men Do Tell Tales. Second Edition 1980.


    Page 30
    This map shows the location of four mines any one of which could be the famous Lost Dutchman mine.”

    Page 25
    Frank’s Map was dated 1848 and signed Manuel Peralta. Both the date and signature were plainly visible. Also his map was a one dimensional map. Frank could not recall the other map being dated or signed.”

    Those who have a copy of the original Peralta Fish Treasure Map know that nine mine locations are clearly marked and a possible tenth hidden in the fold. There is no date and the map is signed Eduardo (?) Manuel Peralta (Eduardo = “wealth”), the map is also drawn in two dimension.

    How can the “original” be the same map that Lake Erie describes?
    Oroblanco likes this.

  12. #12
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,213
    4985 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Croves View Post
    Dead Men Do Tell Tales. Second Edition 1980.


    Page 30
    This map shows the location of four mines any one of which could be the famous Lost Dutchman mine.”

    Page 25
    Frank’s Map was dated 1848 and signed Manuel Peralta. Both the date and signature were plainly visible. Also his map was a one dimensional map. Frank could not recall the other map being dated or signed.”

    Those who have a copy of the original Peralta Fish Treasure Map know that nine mine locations are clearly marked and a possible tenth hidden in the fold. There is no date and the map is signed Eduardo (?) Manuel Peralta (Eduardo = “wealth”), the map is also drawn in two dimension.

    How can the “original” be the same map that Lake Erie describes?
    Just for the sake of the discussion, in the Fish map are depicted only four mines and the Xs or crosses if you like are not mines but codes. IMO, none of the mines depicted in the map is the LDM .
    Hal Croves and Oroblanco like this.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  13. #13
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,507
    2453 times
    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    Just for the sake of the discussion, in the Fish map are depicted only four mines and the Xs or crosses if you like are not mines but codes. IMO, none of the mines depicted in the map is the LDM .
    markmar,

    Lake Erie must have understood the same code rules that you promote which, tend to be “flexible” for lack of a better word. You obviously have a copy of the Peralta Fish Map. If you would, please tell me what the map says is hidden, 50 of ? I am looking for your direct translation.
    Oroblanco likes this.

  14. #14
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,213
    4985 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Croves View Post
    markmar,

    Lake Erie must have understood the same code rules that you promote which, tend to be “flexible” for lack of a better word. You obviously have a copy of the Peralta Fish Map. If you would, please tell me what the map says is hidden, 50 of ? I am looking for your direct translation.
    50 cargas mulas
    Oroblanco and Hal Croves like this.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  15. #15
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,507
    2453 times
    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    50 cargas mulas
    markmar,
    Get permission from the Superstition Mountain Historical Society to post the PF Map and you and I could keep that thread humming.

    ”50 carata hilae... 50 carts in a row.” Taken from page 310 TREASURE TALES OF THE SUPERSTITIONS.
    Obviously problematic.
    Oroblanco likes this.

 

 
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