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  1. #1
    us
    Aug 2008
    Parsons, Kansas
    14

    How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    A coworker of mine showed me some family heirloom papers the other day that place the Lost Dutchman somewhere else all together. This man was an Arizona Ranger around the turn of the century and a few years later worked as an Indian agent. (not sure if that is the right terminology) He recorded a story told to him by Native Americans about the trail built by the Dutchman to the mine. He also drew a map of the area where the trail is. There is also a detailed description of the location of a mining claim within the area of the map.
    I've always heard the the LDM was in the Superstitions. Now I'm starting to wonder. I know these papers date 40-50 years after the Dutchman, but I guess I'm wondering if it's worth looking into. I'm no expert, but there was no indication that any of these papers weren't authentic. As for my coworker, well, he's not capable of faking these documents. He had never even heard of The Lost Dutchman Mine (he called it the Dutchman's Treasure and thought it was in Germany) and had never really looked these things until he brought them to work to show another coworker and me. I would love to hear any input on this.
    If there ain't chocolate in Heaven, I ain't goin'.

  2. #2
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,590
    1372 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    HOLA amigo,

    I would say that the evidence points to a site outside what we call the Superstition mountains today, but that the area known as the Superstition mountains in the past (including the time of Waltz) was considerably larger, especially north, NE and east. One might point to some bits of "clues" that point to a site outside the Superstitions too, such as:

    Waltz made his home in what is today Phoenix, not closer to the mountains which he certainly could have done.

    Waltz made a number of trips to buy supplies etc to Florence, which is also not near the Superstition mountains,

    Waltz's partner, Wiser (Weiser, Wizer etc) when attacked by Apaches fled to the Pima settlements on the Salt river, quite some distance from the Superstitions

    Waltz made a habit of leading anyone following him into the Superstition mountains, often seeming to "vanish" when close to Weaver's Needle - if the mine were truly located near that location, why would he lead followers that close? Doesn't it make more sense that he would MIS-lead them, away from his mine?


    Of course there are many who disagree with this idea and are convinced that the mine must lie in the Superstitions. I won't ask you too many details about the documents you have, but may I ask what general area they point to? Thank you in advance,
    your friend,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  3. #3
    us
    Aug 2008
    Parsons, Kansas
    14

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    This is only speculation as I haven't been able to completely match the hand drawn map with any of the historic maps I've looked at, but it seems to point toward the north-central part of the state. There are several rock formations mentioned, none of which I've heard of or been able to find. I'm new at this and only been working on it as couple of days. If nothing else, I figure it's been an adventure just being able to look at and examine these documents.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    If there ain't chocolate in Heaven, I ain't goin'.

  4. #4
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,590
    1372 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Wow that is certainly INTERESTING and well worth the time to investigate further, and there is at least one version of the Dutchman legend that places the mine in that area (Walnut canyon I believe) so who knows? You might be the one who FINDS the Lost Dutchman Mine! I hope you will keep us posted, and share photos of the heaps of gold ore that you bring out! Good luck and good hunting amigo, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
    your friend,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  5. #5
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,590
    1372 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    HOLA amigos,
    This question of how sure it is that the Lost Dutchman mine is actually in the Superstition mountains is an interesting one IMHO. What is the evidence to actually place the mine in the Superstitions? How does this evidence compare with the clues that the mine is actually OUTside the Superstitions? Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  6. #6
    us
    Aug 2008
    Parsons, Kansas
    14

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Maybe it's like most legends. Starting with a grain of truth, then being embellished upon and retold again and again untill it becomes "truth" . I don't know. I've just started studying this subject and I'm already so confused. lol
    If there ain't chocolate in Heaven, I ain't goin'.

  7. #7

    May 2006
    Mesa, AZ
    1,656
    11 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Waltz himself said it was in the Superstitions, specifically he said the Superstitions-Salt River Mountains. He told Rhiney they would go to the "board house" and from there he would show them the trail they needed to take. That "board house" was either the "QCU" or the "First Water Ranch".
    Sincerely,
    Randy Wright
    Mix Engineer

  8. #8
    Charter Member
    us
    Sharing the culture, history and adventure of the American Southwest.

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
    ace 250
    1,784
    26 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    bump

  9. #9
    us
    Aug 2008
    Parsons, Kansas
    14

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Quote Originally Posted by djui5
    Waltz himself said it was in the Superstitions, specifically he said the Superstitions-Salt River Mountains. He told Rhiney they would go to the "board house" and from there he would show them the trail they needed to take. That "board house" was either the "QCU" or the "First Water Ranch".
    Again, I'm new at this, but why would he tell anyone where it was and be truthful about it? I mean, I know nothing of the mans character at all but, most people would lie to their own mothers to protect a find like that. Ok, that's a big generalization. However human beings in general become very greedy when there's that kind of loot in play. It just the nature of the beast.
    I guess if it is in the Superstitions, then the minor evidence I've got that seems to contradict that (along with all the other similar evidence) is useless. Doesn't mean I stop looking into it, just means if it turns out it was right, it will be a bigger find, right?
    If there ain't chocolate in Heaven, I ain't goin'.

  10. #10

    May 2006
    Mesa, AZ
    1,656
    11 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Quote Originally Posted by missbuffy67
    Again, I'm new at this, but why would he tell anyone where it was and be truthful about it?
    Rhiney was very close with Waltz. He was getting old and I believe wanted to pass the information on to someone. Since he was close with Rhiney, he pass the directions to the mine to him. Sadly Rhiney didn't listen well enough.

    Imagine this, try to explain how to get somewhere with no roads, no mountains of any name (aside from Weavers Needle), and no maps. How easy would it be to get lost? Now imagine there are 2 of everything. That's the Superstitions during Waltz's time. It's really easy to see how the mine was never found when you consider what Waltz had to work with in describing the place Once you've hiked the area a few times you get it.
    Sincerely,
    Randy Wright
    Mix Engineer

  11. #11
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,590
    1372 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Just want to add that folks still get lost in the Superstitions, with highways on every side of the mountains! (HI Randy by the way - I hope all is well with you!)

    Missbuffy - I would suggest checking into several other lost mine "legends" - including the Lost Pick, the Black Maverick, and a few others with similar details that I can't recall the names of but Walnut Canyon and Bronco Canyon are frequently sited as landmarks in those tales; some have theorized that the Lost Pick, Black Maverick and several others are all referring to the same mine, and that it is the true mine of Jacob Waltz.

    On the negative side, we also know that Joe Deering's gold samples were brought out of the Supers, as well as Wagoner's gold, and that the last man who claimed to have found the Lost Dutchman (Walt Gassler) was said to have had ore on him that matched the ore of Waltz, and his body was found in the Superstitions.

    Whether the mine you are tracking is the mine of Waltz or not, there are over 300 lost mines in Arizona, and about any one of them would set you up for life financially if you should be lucky enough to find one. If it were me, I would certainly research the matter farther. What do you stand to lose?

    Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope that you find the treasures that you seek.
    your friend,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  12. #12

    May 2006
    Mesa, AZ
    1,656
    11 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    Just want to add that folks still get lost in the Superstitions, with highways on every side of the mountains! (HI Randy by the way - I hope all is well with you!)
    Oroblanco

    haha I'm doing very well my friend, better than I have ever been actually. I sure do hope the same is true for you and Beth. Glad your back posting with us
    Sincerely,
    Randy Wright
    Mix Engineer

  13. #13
    gb
    Aug 2008
    Lancs
    171
    15 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?


    If you can find details in the document that would indicate a specific area or an indication to narrow down the search area, then use the map to pick out any unusual or specific features,

    you could then try google earth to try and locate the features that are on the map,
    but be prepared to end up with square eyes by the end of the week,

    js

  14. #14

    Jul 2007
    ENGLAND & CALIFORNIA
    Eyes, ears and common sense
    910

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Am I looking at a map in post #3?
    You can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes you just might find, you get what you need- Mick Jagger

  15. #15

    May 2006
    Mesa, AZ
    1,656
    11 times

    Re: How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless67
    Am I looking at a map in post #3?

    No, but I was wondering what it was also. If it's a map then I'm lost
    Sincerely,
    Randy Wright
    Mix Engineer

 

 
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