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  1. #16
    us
    Apr 2005
    909
    71 times

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    It don't make sense that they would transport gold and silver from the coast to the interior of Va or Ky. I think they either found lost Spainish treasure or found where the Indians had mined and may have still been actively mining. With all the trouble they were having with the Indians, it would not have been advisable to transport very much treasure at one time to slow them down. Traveling in the mountains would have been slow anyway and add to that the constant threat of Indian attacks and finding food for the camp would have required them to post guards constantly to insure no surprise attack happened. They also could have been high grading the Indians mined reserves, which would have infuriated them. I am realtively sure though that the gold and silver came out of the ground. There are many caverns in the Va, Ky, and West Va mountainous regions, where could have been called The Great Shawnee cave. Personally, I think the Indians themselves tried to sway opinon of the location of the cave, as most anyone would do if it were found. I have not done nearly as much in depth research into the subject as some of you, and was only trying to help my friend in his research. I've not seen him in a while and have no idea whether he has had any success in trying to locate it. He was under the impression though, after speaking to some local older people in the area, that it was a good possibilty it was on or near Pine mountain. Many legions are told about Swift and his treasure adventures in that area as well as in Kentucky, West Virginia and even in Tennessee. I have personally seen some of his smelters in Tennessee, or some ones from the same period. Good Luck rockhound

  2. #17
    us
    Jul 2009
    Wise, VA
    67
    1 times

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    I've never believed the "pirates theory" either. Why on earth would you go into a deadly place to "convert" pirate plunder A LOT of people were killed in SWVA and Eastern KY in those days by Indians. It wasn't a game and the Indians weren't joking. They would kill you in a heartbeat just for being there, just for being a white man. I don't think anyone who has promoted that theory understands the danger involved.

  3. #18
    us
    "Seek And Ye Shall Find"

    Feb 2009
    EASTERN KENTUCKY
    MD & Handwand "CaveHunter"Hiker" SonyDigital SLR
    610
    1 times

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    Swiz is on to something... laid out facts quite well. Daniel Boone even tells about going west a considerable distance from a fork on the Sandy, prob the same fork of the Sandy river Swift mentioned. In Boone going west it brought him to the Red River watershed. If Swift worked the upper mines and went west a considerable distance from a fork on the Sandy River, then that would put Swift in the Red River Gorge region. And i agree again here with Swizz, Upper Mines = Shawnee Cave. The key here is understanding the Shawnee. Good luck Swiz... awesome research
    "A picture can speak a thousand words"

  4. #19

    Jun 2007
    9,347
    1236 times

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    I agree it is in the RRG; "google" Shawnee Legends... Coffee?

  5. #20
    us
    "Seek And Ye Shall Find"

    Feb 2009
    EASTERN KENTUCKY
    MD & Handwand "CaveHunter"Hiker" SonyDigital SLR
    610
    1 times

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,339943.0.html

    In the link to the story above...old story telling of a Shawnee legend of a great silver mine somewhere on the Red River....
    I get 3 clues from the story involed with Swift.... Bluejacket, Red River, Great Silver Mine.
    I would say they were looking for both the Shawnee Cave, plus Swift's upper mines.
    "A picture can speak a thousand words"

  6. #21
    us
    "Seek And Ye Shall Find"

    Feb 2009
    EASTERN KENTUCKY
    MD & Handwand "CaveHunter"Hiker" SonyDigital SLR
    610
    1 times

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    Rebel....
    "A picture can speak a thousand words"

  7. #22

    Jun 2007
    9,347
    1236 times

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    NOW... "google" RED RIVER GORGE, KY. LOTS of pics, maps... for the state park, there. BUT! NO TH'ing to MY
    knowledge. Ah WELL... Coffee?

  8. #23
    us
    I love to help people learn about the coins they find or collect.

    Aug 2009
    Ohio
    Whites
    243
    16 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Great Shawnee Cave (from Treasure Net)

    It sounds like a great venture and I hope you fnd something and do so safely.

    On the Shawnees, have there been any Shawnee burials located in this area? I ask because Shawnees thought of Kentucky as a hunting area, and only to make passage for warfare, no permanent settlements in Kentucky. With that, I doubt the validity of any Shawnee burying a loved one in a land they thought was haunted by "giant white ghosts".

    However, they would protect a silver supply. Just my two cents from a lot of research over the years.

  9. #24

    Nov 2012
    10
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    All ye Swift Hunters, 09/14/2011 @ 10:47 P.M.

    It is my opinion and I agree with Rebel's statement because of my own research. That the Great Cave of the Shawnee is somewhere in the area of the "RRG". I have heard all the stories of the Great Cave of the Shawnee being somewhere on "Pine Mountain" around "Pound Gap". I have never believed this tale because for several reasons. First off the Shawnee would not have had a sacred place, such as, the "Great Cave" any where near the major capitol towns of the Cherokee, such as, Chota, etc., which were just over the other side of Pine Mountain in Tennessee. The Cherokee basically claimed their empire to extend all the way from the Atlantic ocean to the Mississippi River and from Florida to the Kentucky River and beyond. The Cherokee were a huge nation or confederation of tribes. The Choctaw who were friends and part of the confederation with the Cherokee were also a large tribe from parts of Viginia and West Virginia, whose empire was along the east side of the Big Sandy Drain.
    The Shawnee empire was predominantly from the Missouri River to the Scioto River, North of the Ohio River to the Great Lakes. They would travel to Pine mountain to hunt/harass and plunder the Cherokee/Choctaw, etc. Kentucky was a middle ground, known as the Dark Ground or the Dark and bloody hunting ground, it was a middle land, all the local tribes ventured through it, staying briefly, to hunt, resources, etc.
    The only permanent villages that were in central and south Kentucky, predominantly where the Shawnee and they were all north of the Kentucky River; far away from any claimed Cherokee and Choctaw land, i.e., would be, Indian Old Fields near present day Winchester, Ky., known as Eskappakatheki. Chief Blue Jacket of the Shawnee Tribe was taken captive as a young boy in this area in the early 1700's . Shawnee also had villages at Irvine, Ky and near Redlick, Ky., both on the northside of the Kentucky River. Boone was even attacked south of the Kentucky River on the South Fork of the Kentucky, "by Shawnee" at Fort Boonesborough in present day Boonesville, Ky., by Chief Blackhoof and Simon Girty. Boone and Findley where also attacked and taken captive by Captain Will of the Shawnee during fur hunting expeditions North of the Kentucky River. John Findley was even threatened not to step foot across the Ky River and eventually was killed by the Shawnee for tresspassing across the Kentucky River. In my opinion the Shawnee were protecting something and they were very adamantly opposed to whites coming across the Kentucky River around the "3 Forks area". The Shawnee hunted on the Little Sandy, all around Grayson and Sandy Nook and West Liberty, and buried their dead at Carter Caves, etc., etc., etc and very possibly the RRG area.
    The Cherokee did not police their land beyond the 3 forks of the Kentucky River. The only Cherokee Indian Chief anywhere near the 3 forks of the Kentucky River was Chief Red Bird, near Oneida, Kentucky, (Where I believe approx. the lower mines to be). Once across the Kentucky River it was predominantly Shawnee, with some Mecca/Melongeon inhabitants
    Further more when you listen to what Swift says in his journal, he says that, "his party drew lots to see who would work which mines and that we separted from "a fork" on the Big Sandy River. Half of the party went Southwest along the great ridge, (Pine Mountain) to the lower mines, Swift says, "I went due west a considerable distance and crossed a rock bridge that the water flowed under looking for an Indian Trace, to reach the Upper Mines", ( This would be in Wolfe County, near present day Campton, Ky. Swift says, "I very seldom visited the Lower mines". Swift also says, "We stored our wealth in the Great Cave of the Shawnee, which was known to no other living soul other than his immediate party and four Shawnee Indians", while working the "Upper Mines". Swift also says in his journal, while working the "Upper Mines", "We carried our ore 3 miles north of the mines to our furnace. He also mentions that there was another mine, " 2 " minutes north of their principal workings. Swift says, "we accumulated so much wealth that we "decided" to store/conceal it in the Great Cave of the Shawnee. (This puts the cave very nearby the Upper Mines). With so much wealth they could'nt have transported it too far!
    So this puts the Great Cave not southwest along the great ridge (Pine Mountain), but west of a fork on the Great Sandy River. There are other numerous reasons I could state but these are the most important reasons as to why I have never believed that the Great Cave of the Shawnee to be any where near Pine Mountain. It is even stated that Swift resided in Bean Station Tennessee, which is right there by Pound Gap. If the Great Cave was at Pound Gap, he would have never returned into KY., blind looking for his lost mine/cave. He would of simply went to the Great Cave right there at Pound Gap.
    Luckily my belief in the above stated facts and statements made by Swift in his journal have kept me on they right track of the cave and Swifts Upper Mines. I also have some doubts of someone, "a man", finding the Great Cave and emptying it... and buying a bunch of land with its contents.
    There are some facts to this story which I see some discrepancies in, (the way it was told to me), It is possible, and a good probability that this man could have found the Great Cave, but by some things told to me by the late Ralph Volker, and my own research, raises some doubts with me, but it is possible it could have been found, because it does exist. Just as Swifts Upper Mines exist. God willing I will soon know the answer to this story as well.

    Sincerely,

    Bill N. - aka- "The Swizard"
    Maybe BUT... the Surrounding Indians ALL tribes Traveled to Kingsport area. the sacred LONG island to plan out treaties. etc.. including the Shawnee. perhaps they found this cave and made it a safe haven for being in hostile area, a place the cherokee didnt know of said your self the never traveled to far into KY area.. so this could have been hidden from THEM.. in my search.. I think its closer to home. he talks about going thru kingsport,,, crossing the holsten, then clinch, the river unknown well back then how did they know if the holsten had 3 forks... the could have crossed further up crossing all three forks thinking they were different rivers... then on thru the gap. I think the lower mines are above gate city area,and the upper mines are above jenkins with the shawnee cave being around Pound.. think he has heard stories of other areas and thrown people Off.. he talks about 20 miles 40 miles. etc... I think he is saying 2 miles and 4 miles adding the extra miles to throw people.. Ive been reading where they explored pine mountain and they are Caves... still unexplored or found...

  10. #25
    us
    Jul 2006
    Southeast Bluegrass
    Tesoro Cutlass
    34
    1 times
    I think the river that was unknown to him was the Guest River, they came through Big Moccasin Gap, near present day Gate City.

  11. #26
    us
    Feb 2013
    atm, whites sl II classic
    134
    35 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    oh yea does anyone know of reports of indians trading their silver for other good in that area? that would be a huge indicator if the area actually contains silver, i'm gonna do net search now lol good luck fellow hunters

 

 
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