Recreational Prospecting in the Silverfields of Northeastern Ontario

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Recreational Prospecting in the Silverfields
of Northeastern Ontario

Introduction

For casual or recreational prospecting enthusiasts with limited time to search for precious silver ores and nuggets each season, metal detecting abandoned minesite tailing disposal areas and former ore transport routes is undoubtedly the most productive strategy to increase the odds of recovering more valuable specimen grade silver as depicted below. Our preference is to select abandoned sites that will more likely produce detectable native silver based on past production numbers. You can detect these sites with the certain knowledge that highgrade silver was inadvertently discarded to the tailing disposal and nearby areas, sometimes in considerable quantity. The probability of successfully recovering such material is sharply improved compared to searching for outback silver float, obscure prospects, or low production sites.

Despite the reality that former high production areas have seen decades of detecting and collecting pressure, and considerable surface silver has been removed, associated silver minerals, mixed ores, and native silver are commonly recovered by hobbyists to this day. But larger specimen grade silver has become more difficult to find and nowadays most surface detectable silver is measured in ounces.

There is no doubt that more and larger material exists as initially deposited, waiting undiscovered just beyond the detection capabilities of most metal detectors, or otherwise is masked by abundant iron and other detectable minerals such as proliferate pyrrhotite at many sites. This is readily evident to those who have experienced detecting fresh surfaces resulting from mechanized bulk ore removal, or from trenching productive ground while systematically recovering all target signals.

2.8 LB AG SFBWBL17SPOT.JPG

The foregoing is not to suggest that the low production sites are necessarily undesirable areas to search. An obvious advantage is that low production sites or prospects see far less detecting pressure than do the more visible high production sites. It depends on how your objectives or goals are defined. If typically lower grade or mixed ore samples from such sites contain even small amounts of native silver, particularly with an attractive dendritic structure and background matrix, these will certainly produce readily marketable cuts or slabs.

To improve the likelihood of finding silver, it is important to be selective about sampling locations at any given site. We are looking for deposits by searching areas most likely to have experienced unintentional dumping of good material. That means areas where valuable silver was handled and transported. Look for indications of surface veins, shafts, and storage areas where silver was graded, moved, and sometimes inadvertently misplaced. There are many plainly visible field indications of former mine buildings, mill sites, abandoned trails and ore transport routes.

While quantities of silver were frequently discarded to tailing disposal areas, keep in mind that some highgrade silver was unknowingly included with waste rock for road and other construction projects. Hobbyists have detected large specimen grade silver that was occasionally lost to spills on steep embankments, washouts, or sharp bends along the transport routes of the time. More information on this subject can be viewed at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/canada/282315-electronic-prospecting-silver-country.html.

The photo immediately below depicts exposed bedrock on the outer fringe of a former mining camp that we revisited this past autumn. The next photo presents a few examples of small but good quality silver detected at this site in recent years. Most silver recoveries weighed less than one-half ozt, but it was fun MXT and F75 detecting because the signals were fairly abundant and mostly shallow for easy digging. Although small silver isnā€™t a priority, it is not easy to abandon patches that produce such good quality material in quantity.

COBALT LODE BEDROCK PROSPECT SF.JPG

Extensive information about abandoned gold and silver mines is available online, and many publications are available to prospective hobbyists. My personal favorites include a series entitled Rocks and Minerals for the Collector authored by Ann P. Sabrina, in association with the Geological Survey of Canada. These publications supply useful information pertaining to abandoned minesites throughout Canada. They provide road guides to accessible collecting locations, a brief history of a siteā€™s mining operations, normally include production numbers for more prominent minerals such as cobalt, lead, zinc, nickel, copper, silver and gold, and usually provide a comprehensive list of mineral occurrences for each site.

20161127_004654.jpg

With specimen grade silver becoming increasingly difficult to find, it is more important than ever to use metal detectors suitable to the application, to select coil type and size that are appropriate for site conditions, and to avoid using discrimination modes if at all possible. Most readers would take this as an axiom, but we do see inappropriate metal detector designs or excessively large coils used in this area where pyrrhotite and other detectable minerals, abundant iron waste, and miscellaneous modern trash masking silver is problematic at many sites. Rather than review it here, weā€™ve previously discussed the topic of suitable metal detecting gear for silver hunting in northeastern Ontario in considerable detail at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/canada/328287-electronic-prospecting-silver-country-part-2-a.html.

Below is a bit of plate silver detected with a Whiteā€™s MXT 300 in the motion all-metal prospecting mode. The prospecting modeā€™s iron probability, numerical target ID indicator, and ground phase readouts add a lot of interest and fun to rockhunting, but it doesnā€™t influence our target evaluation routine insofar as overburden must be removed to acquire a strong target signal. If there is any doubt about the target ID, it must be dug to learn what produced the signal. No treatment was required for this sample other than a quick buff with the rotary tool, followed by a soapy wash and rinse.

1.9 OZT NATIVE SILVER NUGGET SSFGRNYGDD18.JPG

Some Background Information for Prospective Hobbyists

Native silver ranging up to 95% purity, acanthite, pyrargyrite and proustite ruby silvers, stephanite, and other collectable silver minerals primarily occur in carbonate veins in association with gangue minerals such as quartz, chlorite, fluorite, barite, albite, hematite, magnetite and many other minerals normally related to relatively shallow epithermal deposits. The native silver in this area is intimately associated with major cobalt-nickel arsenide deposits that include collectibles such as safflorite, cobaltite, nickeline, and skutterudite. These minerals will also produce target signals, and their localized mineralizations are an added constituent inherent to the areaā€™s minesite substrates in addition to the usual variable strength magnetic susceptible iron minerals.

Attractively structured native silver in creamy white or other lighter-hued carbonates, or for example in association with other closely related silver minerals, notably for example acanthite and proustite, is highly valued by collectors. Structure refers to how the silver is formed, examples include massive or nuggety formations, plate, disseminate or particulate, sponge, highly crystalline, and various dendritic or branching patterns as depicted in the small example below. This sample was cleaned with a rotary tool silicon carbide bit, followed by a dish detergent wash and clean water rinse.

1.5 OZT DENDRITIC SILVER SF17PANYYGN.JPG

Silver ores and nuggets found in northeastern Ontarioā€™s silverfields share a similar target ID range to gold, a result of variations in silver purity, type of mineral inclusions, size, shape, structure, and the influence of ground conditions.

Ground conditions normally refer to magnetic susceptibilities associated with various types of iron mineralizations, other localized minerals as noted above, and to substrate type and moisture content. The prevalence of both conductive and non-conductive iron-mineralized hotrocks, the abundance and proximity of rusty manmade iron to silver targets, and the effects of recently disturbed ground resulting from recent mining activity such as mechanized bulk sampling operations, also significantly impact metal detecting for silver ores. In short, do not trust target ID except over strong, obviously non-ferrous target ID signals, and even then larger iron will usually read as a highly conductive non-ferrous target.

The photo below depicts a silver specimen found with a Fisher F75 metal detector. It was operated in the motion all-metal mode that features an enabled target ID while doing some exploratory trenching at a roadside accessible, former high production site. Serious exploration, sampling, and excavation are fundamental to consistent recovery of specimen grade material. Trenching, scraping surface material, or sinking test holes is not for anyone but more determined hobbyists because repetitive digging in rocky substrates is hard work and time consuming. But one way or another, consistently finding worthwhile silver nowadays translates into a lot of digging.

The example below was cleaned with a rotary tool silicon carbide tip followed by a detergent wash and rinse. The photo doesnā€™t do justice to it, for example you are hard-pressed to discern a quarter-inch silver vein protruding in front by almost an inch. Three-dimensional effects are almost impossible to achieve when shooting from directly in front of the sample.

6.5 LB NATIVE SILVER CALCITE SFYG19L.JPG

Searching Iron-Infested Abandoned Minesites with a VLF Unit

We revisited an area that produced multiple silver ores from a limited section of tailings that we later decided to excavate as pictured below. The initial diggings you see in the photo were eventually extended deeper and much further into the tailings because we continued to find silver. To cope with excessive iron trash, we used both a Fisher F75 and a Whiteā€™s MXT 300 equipped with 10ā€elliptical coils for routine checking of fresh surfaces. With a few exceptions, the silver recovered in this area has been mostly in the multiple ozt range, but has included some quality material as depicted immediately below the digsite photo.

We had randomly searched the general area in recent years and could pretty much anticipate what to expect. The substrate iron mineral magnetic susceptibilities are variably light to moderate over most tailings that to some extent exhibit surface oxidized ironā€¦ natureā€™s rust limoniteā€¦ and markedly more elevated over darker minerals such as diabase, but nothing more extreme. There is an overabundance of iron and other trash signals due to several dismantled buildings, a scattering of conductive pyrrhotite hotrocks that produce good signals on both VLF and PI units, and detectable nickeline and cobalt minerals.

These conditions make the MXTā€™s mid-operating 13.88 kHz frequency, target ID meter, discrimination modes, and particularly the motion all-metal prospecting mode with the iron probability, VDI and ground phase readouts a very good choice. The MXT is ideally suited to this application, and especially so because the most desirable targets weigh ounces and more. The available ultra high gain is not required to detect such material at depth, hence the unit can be operated with good stability in those environs and still be quite effective in the prospecting mode. Most currently available mid-range, prospecting-capable VLF units with different size and type coils available would be similarly appropriate for the search conditions as described.

COLEMAN DIGSITE #1 START-UP SFBT18YG.JPG

0.7 LB DENDRITIC SPECIMEN SF17GRNY1G.JPG

11.4 OZT SILVER CALCITE SF19BBE.JPG

It is a daunting task to search an area that produces countless iron and other trash signals, especially if you contemplate removing some of the large iron residing close to the surface to improve the odds of finding previously masked, occasionally larger silver at depth. Obviously one does not undertake this task unless reasonably confident that such silver is present, and that requires some knowledge about a specific site. But at the same time, we try to keep in mind that just one large specimen-grade silver ore makes all the hard work worthwhile.

As an alternative to the usual surface scanning in already pounded areas, that will keep you permanently on your knees if youā€™re intent on clearing away some of the large iron, we sometimes resort to exploratory trenching as illustrated in the above photo. Where possible, we prefer to trench on sloping ground, utilizing gravity to more easily move material and recover targets. Trenching allows us to scan to considerably greater depths where the probability of detecting silver sharply improves when on productive ground. All encountered target signals are investigated and removed, hence there are no worries about iron masking or otherwise overlooking good silver.

There is more to say about identifying sites that at least warrant some limited exploratory trenching or digging selective test holes, or even scraping away surface material, but that discussion will be reserved pending a follow-up article entitled Trenching and Metal Detecting for Native Silver. The specimen grade silver below is just one of many fine examples weā€™ve found over the years using the above technique.

3.8 LB AG CALCITE SFYG18LOG.JPG

Despite searching in tough iron-abundant areas, we still prefer to search in the motion all-metal mode where we can benefit from either target ID or its equivalent in the MXT prospecting mode without the depth loss that accompanies discrimination modes when slowly scanning over variable rocky surfaces. Some prefer the MXT relic mode as an option to get the depth benefit of an all-metal mode combined with discrimination capability, but the incessant cacophony of mixed mode honking tones over target-rich ground does not agree with meā€¦ a personal preference and nothing more. But frankly, in most prospecting scenarios discrimination modes in any format are not a good idea. We much prefer motion all-metal modes for improved depth and sensitivity to targets and for evaluating ground conditions, and we also prefer unimpeded target-sizing ability to better assess what is happening beneath the searchcoil.

When searching in a motion all-metal mode, over questionable target signals we frequently make use of the auto or fastgrab GB (ground balance) feature available on many modern VLF prospecting-capable detectors. The auto GB feature supplies us with additional information about a target that obviously requires some interpretation based on your detecting experience in these field conditions, and that information can be used in conjunction with target ID and target-sizing when evaluating suspect signals.

In this area for example, a few F75 autograb coil pumps over most rusted ironā€¦ a manmade maghemiteā€¦ that has leached into the immediate surrounding substrate normally lowers GB values from the high GB80s into the more conductive GB40s. This especially applies to small iron and other common items such as rail spikes and large nails. But occasional drill rods, tools, implements, and other larger iron may not react similarly or at all if located sufficiently close to the coil to produce a strong signal.

Non-conductive iron-mineralized positive hotrocks and our conductive pyrrhotite positive hotrocks will also produce variable and frequently steep GB reductions, although larger pyrrhotite will retain its signal similar to iron nails. Nickeline and cobalt minerals normally generate rather dramatic GB reductions, whereas native silver experiences little or no GB reduction as illustrated below. Compare the iron nail fastgrab readout to the silver fastgrab readout, keeping in mind that both produced an iron target ID.

3RD FINAL MERGE FRAMED.JPG

2ND FINAL MERGE FRAMED.JPG

We all encounter areas that are so inundated with blaring signals from small bits of iron trash such as tiny nails and tacks, non-descript shards, and interminable wire scraps that effective detecting in the motion all-metal mode is frustrating or next to impossible. In such conditions we use smaller coils to help with separating target signals, and we make good use of small iron discrimination or minimal / zero discrimination in conjunction with iron tones.

Using iron tones or small iron discrimination will result in overlooking deep silver that occasionally does target ID as iron, but that is the price of convenience. Silver reading as iron can result from recent ore removal operations disturbing the substrate, or for example, from adjacent iron compromising silverā€™s target ID, but the usual culprit is the magnetic susceptible iron mineralizations present beneath the coil that especially affect deeper target ID. As noted earlier, large iron at any depth frequently reads as non-ferrous and generates an attractive ā€˜dig meā€™ audio and target ID.

Individual discrimination preferences vary, but our rationale is that finding any silver while utilizing discrimination / tones beats the heck out of abandoning a trashy site with no silver found. After all, recreational prospecting is supposed to be an enjoyable, rewarding pursuit and not a study in frustration. The above modus operandi accounts for many fine examples of small native silver in our collection as with the nugget depicted below, recovered from a pyrrhotite-infested abandoned trail.

9.7 OZT NUGGET REVSF19PANYGG.JPG

A Tale of Two Target Signals

Prior to trenching or excavating this year, we had initially metal detected near the digsite pictured above and we made a point of removing larger surface iron to improve the odds of locating masked silver. Late one afternoon, an elongated signal, correctly indicated by the MXTā€™s iron probability readout, proved to be a sizable iron bar that was removed from several inches below the surface. Rechecking the immediate area produced another signal that was slightly offset to one side and perhaps a foot deeper. It consistently read at 20% iron probability, and resulted in the large silver sample you see below. It was a special moment to find it so close to the surface, and to realize that the encouraging audio signal and target ID had been produced by silver. If the iron bar hadn't first been removed, that silver signal would have been entirely masked by it regardless of coil size or type. The overlying shallow iron bar had produced a completely dominant, blaring signal.

The specimen below was HCl acid treated to remove excessive carbonate rock. It was cleaned with a rotary tool silicon carbide bit, followed by a soapy wash and rinse to produce the silver specimen depicted in the following photo. While not exactly a handsome sample because the silver is embedded in a dark blue-grey carbonate matrix, it is a fine example of massively structured dendritic native silver that accounts for much of the sampleā€™s total weight.

20161118_002424.jpg

10.4 LB DENDRITIC AG BLUE CARBONATE LOGSSF18YB.JPG

A Final Word

A tip of the hat to TreasureNet forum member Prospector Bill, an experienced silver hunter and avid outdoorsperson who has accompanied me on many prospecting excursions to northeastern Ontarioā€™s silverfields and more recently into Quebecā€™s Laurentian Mountains. Our memories are replete with exploring wilderness areas, electronic prospecting for silver ores, floats, and other minerals, and sharing companionable moments by flickering campfires on cool, starry autumn evenings over steaming pork and beans and hot coffee.

Prospector Bill had not been able to join me until very late in the season this year. To make good use of our available time, we selected a site that has reliably produced quality small silver for many years. To date weā€™ve also found a half-dozen or so larger specimen grade silver ores there, and more may yet surface. As illustrated below, silver recovery involves moving a fair bit of surface material to access deeper silver just beyond the range of our metal detectors. The work is justified because this site will consistently produce a few small specimens or nuggets up to several ozt in exchange for only a few hours effort.

COLEMAN DIGGINGS SITE FOUR SF19YG.JPG

3.3 OZT FRESH DUG AG ROCK SFBGB17.JPG

We had been scraping away the tailings and alternately scanning the fresh surfaces with 10ā€ elliptical coils while operating in motion all-metal modes. I had been working just around a bend and thinking about calling it quits for the day as a swirling snowstorm quickly swept up to us on the exposed hillslope.

Prospector Bill stepped around the tailings, with a rather pleased smile over a new silver recovery held out for me to see. I love the soft gleam of high purity silver embedded in creamy white calcite, so I took the photo above despite it being freshly dug and covered in wet dirt. A handsome find in addition to several other silver specimens recovered in just a few hours of detecting this site. Attached below is a multi-photo depicting some larger silver that weā€™ve found in the immediate vicinity over the years.

20161129_172038.jpg

We hope that you have enjoyed this presentation about our native silver and related minerals, and thankyou for dropping around to review it. We realize that northeastern Ontarioā€™s silver country is geologically quite different from what many readers encounter in their respective areas, and we are very fortunate to have reasonably close access to it.

If you have questions about what has been presented here, especially newcomers to the hobby, please donā€™t hesitate to fire away. No question is awkward or foolish, and weā€™ll do our best to provide a satisfactory answer. Good luck with your rock and mineral collecting adventuresā€¦ someday we hope it will be our good luck to meet you in the field.

Jim Hemmingway
December 2016
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Fantastic informative post Jim. Thanks much for taking the time to go into such explicit detail- :icon_thumright: John

Hi John... thankyou for taking a moment to comment. I'm pleased that you enjoyed the article, that is important to me.

Merry Christmas, and all the very best in the forthcoming New Year. :)

Jim.
 

Tradertom

Sr. Member
Jul 20, 2016
349
241
South Central Georgia
Detector(s) used
Equinox 800, XP DEUS, AT PRO plus several older detector going back 45 years.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Great post. Very detailed and informative.
Thanks for taking the time to put it all together for the rest of us!
 

Jim in Idaho

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2012
3,320
4,698
Blackfoot, Idaho
Detector(s) used
White's GM2, GM3, DFX, Coinmaster, TDI-SL, GM24K, Falcon MD20, old Garrett Masterhunter BFO
'Way Too Cool' dual 18 Watt UV light
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Great post, Jim, and really good to see you posting. Glad to see you're still finding the gorgeous silver specimens!
Jim
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Great post. Very detailed and informative.
Thanks for taking the time to put it all together for the rest of us!

Hi Tradertom... thankyou for those kind thoughts. With the passage of many years in the hobby, I think half of our enjoyment is derived from cleaning our rock finds, the photography, and gathering it together into a write-up about what we've been doing recently over this way. It also doesn't hurt to provide some insights about how we detect silver in the conditions described. If a newcomer to the hobby finds something useful, or an experienced detectorist can supplement our information with their own ideas, then we all stand to benefit.

Merry Christmas, and best wishes to you in the New Year. :)

Jim.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Great post, Jim, and really good to see you posting. Glad to see you're still finding the gorgeous silver specimens!
Jim

Hi Jim... it is good to hear from you again, and thankyou for stopping around to comment. We have been pretty fortunate over the years, but the finds are generally smaller and less frequent, and we seem to work harder to get them. Search conditions have changed over the years, and we've tried to adapt by combining our detecting with trenching, sinking test holes, or scraping away surface material where we think it might be worthwhile.

Merry Christmas Jim, and all the very best to you in the forthcoming New Year. :)

Jim.
 

Jim in Idaho

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2012
3,320
4,698
Blackfoot, Idaho
Detector(s) used
White's GM2, GM3, DFX, Coinmaster, TDI-SL, GM24K, Falcon MD20, old Garrett Masterhunter BFO
'Way Too Cool' dual 18 Watt UV light
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Thanks, Jim, and the same to you.
Jim
 

johnedoe

Bronze Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,489
2,239
Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
White's V3i, White's MXT, and White's Eagle Spectrum
Cleangold sluice & prospectors pan, EZ-Gold Pan, and custom cleanup sluice.
Primary Interest:
Other
Once again Jim you just keep raising the bar...
I enjoyed your thoroughly detailed article and am still overwhelmed by your knowledge and selflessness in sharing information in these great articles.
Hope you had a very Merry Christmas.
Have a happy, healthy, prosperous New Year.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Once again Jim you just keep raising the bar...
I enjoyed your thoroughly detailed article and am still overwhelmed by your knowledge and selflessness in sharing information in these great articles.
Hope you had a very Merry Christmas.
Have a happy, healthy, prosperous New Year.

Hi johnedoe... thankyou for those kind thoughts, and taking a moment to post those comments. I am pleased that you enjoyed the article, it makes the effort all worthwhile.

We had a marvelous Christmas, but we were also glad to finally get eight hours of sleep last night. With the shopping, wrapping gifts, preparing meals for extended family dinners, and helping with household chores to keep things organized... the past week has been an almost indistinguishable blur of activities. And that doesn't really account for time spent with our grandchildren... they stayed overnight for Christmas... late to bed, early to rise... I'm sure you can imagine!!!! I hope your Christmas was a little less hectic and more relaxed.

Thanks again for dropping by, and all the very best in the forthcoming New Year. :)

Jim.
 

meMiner

Bronze Member
Jul 22, 2014
1,047
1,176
Port Perry, Ontario
Detector(s) used
Minelab 800,
Fisher CZ21, F75SE, Gold Bug 2.9 & Minelab GPX 5000
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Wonderful article Jim! I think I will print it off and read it every time I think I need another coil, detector or piece of equipment. It will remind me that I just need more knowledge. LOL

One question on the ground grab. Am I reading it correctly that you will rebalance over iron to confirm it is not a good target by using the ground grab? If so, that is a very valuable tip!
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Wonderful article Jim! I think I will print it off and read it every time I think I need another coil, detector or piece of equipment. It will remind me that I just need more knowledge. LOL

One question on the ground grab. Am I reading it correctly that you will rebalance over iron to confirm it is not a good target by using the ground grab? If so, that is a very valuable tip!

Hi Placergoldā€¦ the fastgrab technique normally indicates rusty iron and pyrrhotite with sharp GB reductions into more conductive readouts as illustrated below with a pyrrhotite sample. I say ā€˜normallyā€™ because there are exceptions that occur for various reasons.

For example, large milling balls or drillbits, and one-inch diameter drill rods or other larger ironā€¦ if sufficiently close to the coil to produce strong, blaring signals frequently wonā€™t react to the fastgrab technique. These targets must be dug. The same targets at increased depth are more likely to react to the fastgrab check similar to most iron.

There are instances where small ironā€¦ for example nailsā€¦ will not react either. But this usually occurs where the nail is enveloped in compacted vegetation, typically dead leaves, and youā€™ll notice that such nails tend to be blackened to some extent with little or no rusty leachate present.

Not all iron or pyrrhotite reacts similarly due to shape, size, substrate, profile to the coil, quantity and structure of pyrrhotite in any given rock and so on. Frequently the GB reduction will be modest but indicative of undesirable targets such as tiny iron, or minimal pyrrhotite in a rock, and similarly with cobalt and nickeline. Or it could be a lower grade silver ore containing some of those materials. I generally dig such targets to be sure. But for example, letā€™s say we get a signal with a non-ferrous target ID but the fastgrab drops right down to the low forties on my F75 similar to the illustration belowā€¦ that target is not going to be silverā€¦ and unless Iā€™m curious about what it actually isā€¦ I tend to leverite there.

FINAL MERGE FRAMED.JPG

In areas where large surface iron is really excessive, I usually donā€™t bother with the fastgrab feature. A good example is at the Beaver Mine flatsā€¦ just below the ridgeā€¦ that extends across to the former millsite. There is just too much near-surface iron present that masks good silver and it calls for a different approach. The priority there is either to clear it away in a selected area, or to trench as described in the report.

We normally donā€™t decide to trench just anywhere, but we know from experience that this area has produced lots of quality silver over the years. We found quality silver there this past autumn that wasnā€™t included in this report because there was no time to clean it outside in the patio before the colder weather arrived. The silver was generally small but the piece depicted below came from the site we selected for trenching. It needs an additional acid bath to properly expose the silver and whatever acanthite is present.

21.3 LB AG CALCITE SF18YGD.JPG

I did look for you this past season but no such luck. In fact I saw very few people in the area except a local resident out detecting a patch of good small stuff using a GoldBug2. Finding worthwhile surface material isnā€™t getting any easier, so we tend to try a bit of exploratory trenching or scraping away surface material in areas we think might produce.

Thankyou Placergold for your comments, and all the very best in the forthcoming New Year. I hope to see you up there next autumn if not before. :)

Jim.
 

meMiner

Bronze Member
Jul 22, 2014
1,047
1,176
Port Perry, Ontario
Detector(s) used
Minelab 800,
Fisher CZ21, F75SE, Gold Bug 2.9 & Minelab GPX 5000
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
I love your 21 lb rock!

Thanks for the detailed response on the fastgrab. I picked up a F75 and cannot wait to try it out for silver ore. I expect Sheldon will still kick my butt, but at least I will confirm it is me and not the machine. LOL

I also picked up a small DD coil for the GPX5000 to see if it can better pick its way through the junk (and dig smaller holes). Next year, I also intend to try a 23 inch mono coil in a few of the "less junky" areas (not sure that really exists). Interesting, I have found that I can set the GPX5000 to avoid cobalt, which saves some digging.

That said, I found that detecting surface last year to be noticeably more difficult than prior years. There were significantly fewer good finds of any size. Looks like one now has to slow down, check the non-obvious spots, clean out junk and probably trench to get at decent targets. Lots of guys with good detectors, who know their machines, have certainly cleaned up most of the easy stuff.

I look forward to going back next year and hope to see you.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
I love your 21 lb rock!

Thanks for the detailed response on the fastgrab. I picked up a F75 and cannot wait to try it out for silver ore. I expect Sheldon will still kick my butt, but at least I will confirm it is me and not the machine. LOL

I also picked up a small DD coil for the GPX5000 to see if it can better pick its way through the junk (and dig smaller holes). Next year, I also intend to try a 23 inch mono coil in a few of the "less junky" areas (not sure that really exists). Interesting, I have found that I can set the GPX5000 to avoid cobalt, which saves some digging.

That said, I found that detecting surface last year to be noticeably more difficult than prior years. There were significantly fewer good finds of any size. Looks like one now has to slow down, check the non-obvious spots, clean out junk and probably trench to get at decent targets. Lots of guys with good detectors, who know their machines, have certainly cleaned up most of the easy stuff.

I look forward to going back next year and hope to see you.

Placergoldā€¦ congratulations on acquiring an F75. It is an excellent unit for this application and I think youā€™ll enjoy using it. It will nicely compliment your GPX5K in scenarios where extreme depth isnā€™t terribly critical but iron identification attributes, good target separation, and fast scanning in a lightweight, balanced package takes precedence to cover ground and identify productive areas. That aside, we use it and the MXT almost exclusively when working a digsite. But otherwise I would make good use of your deeperseeking GPX5K wherever possible for just that reason.

I donā€™t know if youā€™ve read the manual or not, but the F75 fastgrab is designed to prevent it from automatically adjusting to more conductive ground conditions below GB40, and this ā€˜control featureā€™ also prevents it from ā€˜fastgrabā€™ ground-balancing into metals. Maghemite in the form of rust deposits typically reads in the low to mid GB40s, so the fastgrab feature reading down to GB40 is quite adequate for trying to get an indication as to whether a target is silver or something else. Anything more conductive than GB40ā€¦ for example wet salt conditionsā€¦ requires a manual ground balance adjustment.

As to your comments above, we select excavation sites based on our detecting experience, but there are no guarantees. If a digsite produces any amount of decent silver weā€™ve got something to cheer aboutā€¦ but it does translate into a lot of work to actually get your hands on silver. Below is a typical small sample from Coleman Digsite #1 that was lightly field-cleaned before taking the photo. It was the first of several pieces found after removing maybe two feet of material. I had to dig down maybe a foot or so further to expose the silverā€¦ a nice reward at the timeā€¦ so I impulsively took the photo.

Over the course of the autumn season, these smaller ores go a long way towards filling an orebag. In fact some six to eight weeks later it is astonishing to see how much material has accumulated. There is no doubt that retirement is a tremendous advantage insofar as it gives us the time to do things that otherwise would not be possible in an abbreviated visit there. In fact weā€™ve had our most successful seasons since we took early retirement.

Jim.

1.3 LB FRESH DUG SILVER SF18YG.JPG
 

johnedoe

Bronze Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,489
2,239
Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
White's V3i, White's MXT, and White's Eagle Spectrum
Cleangold sluice & prospectors pan, EZ-Gold Pan, and custom cleanup sluice.
Primary Interest:
Other
Hi Jim...
Do you have any experience with White's V3i in the silver fields?
It is a pretty amazing machine.
 

OP
OP
Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Hi Jim...
Do you have any experience with White's V3i in the silver fields?
It is a pretty amazing machine.

Hi johnedoeā€¦ I have no experience with the Whiteā€™s V3i whatsoever. Based on what Iā€™ve read about the unit, I see no reason why it couldnā€™t be successfully used for this application.

I see that you also have an Eagle Spectrum. For many years it and the Spectrum XLT were my favorite metal detectors primarily used for coin hunting, although we occasionally used them in the silverfields to double-check suspect deeper iron. My wife used the Spectrum XLT version for hunting native silver for many yearsā€¦ mainly because we already owned it and knew it was effective over iron.

Oddly enough, the photo below has come in handy a few times on this forum. It illustrates the type of targets we searched for in parks, picnic groves, abandoned older sites and so forth years ago, plus we found relics and other oddities that made our outings even more interesting. Those units were fun to use, but I imagine the more advanced, selectable multi-frequency V3i would be much better suited to searching for native silver and still benefit from that highly reliable SignaGraph over iron junk.

This conversation brings back good memories, it might be a nice change to return to coin hunting after so many years absence from it. Thanks for the (unintentional) nudge in that direction!!! :)

Jim.

TOKENS & COINS SAMPLE.JPG

 

johnedoe

Bronze Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,489
2,239
Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
White's V3i, White's MXT, and White's Eagle Spectrum
Cleangold sluice & prospectors pan, EZ-Gold Pan, and custom cleanup sluice.
Primary Interest:
Other
Hello Jim and Happy New Year....

Here are shots of a couple things I have found and thought I would show you how the V3i see's them.
1st is a big ugly mens ring I found a couple weeks ago. 415 grains of pure ugly 10k gold.

the second image is how the V3i sees it in pinpoint mode.... these are just air tests to let you see what the V see's them.
Of course ground mineralization will affect things a bit but it doesn't change the freq. that certain metals respond to best... Also the bigger the target the higher the VDI.

The three frequencies operate simultaneously and analyze each target .... 2.5, 7.5, and 22.5 kHz.
The gold ring hits hardest in the 22.5 kHz freq.

The silver quarter hits hardest on the 2.5 kHz freq.

There is a pre-programed mode called "Deep Silver" that would probably be killer on that stuff your finding.
If you can locate somebody with a V3i it would be interesting to see how it works out.
If I didn't live clear over on the left coast I would be there in a heart beat.


fullsizeoutput_118.jpeg IMG_0093.jpg



Here is a 1950 quarter and how the V see's it.

IMG_0096.jpg IMG_0094.jpg
 

Last edited:
OP
OP
Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Hello Jim and Happy New Year....

Here are shots of a couple things I have found and thought I would show you how the V3i see's them.
1st is a big ugly mens ring I found a couple weeks ago. 415 grains of pure ugly 10k gold.

the second image is how the V3i sees it in pinpoint mode.... these are just air tests to let you see what the V see's them.
Of course ground mineralization will affect things a bit but it doesn't change the freq. that certain metals respond to best... Also the bigger the target the higher the VDI.

The three frequencies operate simultaneously and analyze each target .... 2.5, 7.5, and 22.5 kHz.
The gold ring hits hardest in the 22.5 kHz freq.

The silver quarter hits hardest on the 2.5 kHz freq.

There is a pre-programed mode called "Deep Silver" that would probably be killer on that stuff your finding.
If you can locate somebody with a V3i it would be interesting to see how it works out.
If I didn't live clear over on the left coast I would be there in a heart beat.


View attachment 1396760 View attachment 1396763



Here is a 1950 quarter and how the V see's it.

View attachment 1396765 View attachment 1396766

Hi Johnedoeā€¦ Happy New Year to you as well, and thanks for that instructive post. Your photos above are perfect illustrations of how your detector frequencies see those targets. And by the way, the gold ring is nothing short of a fantastic find. Weā€™ve found some big rings in the past with our water hunting, but nothing in that weight range.

Some questions if that would be OK. For searching in a park, yesteryearā€™s picnic grove, older ballparks and so forth, do you use all three frequencies simultaneously as a general rule of thumb? If you are hunting old silver does the Deep Silver program utilize the lowest frequency alone, or does it use all three frequencies? Do you find using the lowest frequency produces better depth on silver compared to multi-frequency?

Your photos make me wonder about things a bit. For example lets say weā€™re hunting a volleyball court, acquire a zinc penny range VDI but the 22.5 khz frequency responds more than the others. Any chance that could indicate a large, higher carat gold ring or possibly a screwcap rather than a zinc penny?

Thatā€™s about it for now, hope you donā€™t mind those questions, and thankyou.

Jim.
 

johnedoe

Bronze Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,489
2,239
Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
White's V3i, White's MXT, and White's Eagle Spectrum
Cleangold sluice & prospectors pan, EZ-Gold Pan, and custom cleanup sluice.
Primary Interest:
Other
Hello Jim,
I am happy to answer any questions I can, and even that is within limits since I am still learning the V3i even after 3 years, but I don't want to hijack this excellent thread.

I will have to say that ring holds the record for me as well to this point.....Looking for a new record now..:laughing7:

During my hunt's I am normally using all 3 freqs. in what is called Mixed Mode Stereo. I just started using that program a couple months ago and it is a bit overwhelming at first since in my left ear I hear the all metal mode which hits everything and in my right ear I her the discriminate mode.... it can get very busy but once you get used to it that program can be a real game changer.

The deep silver program does use only the 2.5 freq. and there are a couple advantages to that.
1. all the power of the machine is dedicated now to that single freq.
2. the 2.5 by the nature of the freq. is a deeper penetrating mode. you also will need to choose between several filters.
if you are in low mineralization you can us the 5hz band pass or 5hz high pass filters depending on EMI ... Sweep speed is also a factor the low filters are better with SLOW sweep speeds.
The higher filters are used for higher mineralization and or faster sweep speeds.
The choices are.

Using ONLY Sweep Speed:
.5 to 1.25 fps = 5Hz
1.5 to 1.75 fps = 7.5Hz
2.0 to 2.25 fps = 10Hz
2.5 fps and up = 12.5Hz

Using ONLY Mineralization:
Very Low Mineralization = 5Hz
Low Mineralization = 7.5Hz
Moderate Mineralization = 10Hz
High Mineralization = 12.5Hz
The machine has a mode that allows you to measure the ground mineralization to help with these settings as well.
Regarding the zinc penny VDI and freq. you are correct ... A zinc penny VDI is approx. 55... the ring if I remember correctly while it was still in the ground hit about 50 VDI. and yes a higher karate ring would hit higher or it could be another electrically similar target. a screw cap can hit in the quarter range but the freq. is generally quite different.

There is a setting that is called correlate and it helps further determine a target.. it is especially good in separating iron from good targets and I am just getting to know that mode.

So with all this said and as you well know many other targets can hit similar VDI , size and composition will alter read outs.
There are a number of methods to gain more target info but that is another book entirely..:laughing7:

The V is an amazing machine and virtually every aspect of the machine can be adjusted which can actually hinder performance if you set conflicting controls.

Well I hope this helps and like I said I don't want to hijack this excellent thread but will be happy to help if I can maybe through PMs or a new thread.
Also remember I am still learning this machine and don't get out as much as I would like.

Best regards.
William...aka.... johnedoe

Here is a short vid on the mixed mode stereo program being used to find those small Roman coins.



And one more vid getting those Roman coins among the iron and other trash.

 

Last edited:
OP
OP
Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,618
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Hello Jim,
I am happy to answer any questions I can, and even that is within limits since I am still learning the V3i even after 3 years, but I don't want to hijack this excellent thread.

I will have to say that ring holds the record for me as well to this point.....Looking for a new record now..:laughing7:

During my hunt's I am normally using all 3 freqs. in what is called Mixed Mode Stereo. I just started using that program a couple months ago and it is a bit overwhelming at first since in my left ear I hear the all metal mode which hits everything and in my right ear I her the discriminate mode.... it can get very busy but once you get used to it that program can be a real game changer.

The deep silver program does use only the 2.5 freq. and there are a couple advantages to that.
1. all the power of the machine is dedicated now to that single freq.
2. the 2.5 by the nature of the freq. is a deeper penetrating mode. you also will need to choose between several filters.
if you are in low mineralization you can us the 5hz band pass or 5hz high pass filters depending on EMI ... Sweep speed is also a factor the low filters are better with SLOW sweep speeds.
The higher filters are used for higher mineralization and or faster sweep speeds.
The choices are.

Using ONLY Sweep Speed:
.5 to 1.25 fps = 5Hz
1.5 to 1.75 fps = 7.5Hz
2.0 to 2.25 fps = 10Hz
2.5 fps and up = 12.5Hz

Using ONLY Mineralization:
Very Low Mineralization = 5Hz
Low Mineralization = 7.5Hz
Moderate Mineralization = 10Hz
High Mineralization = 12.5Hz
The machine has a mode that allows you to measure the ground mineralization to help with these settings as well.
Regarding the zinc penny VDI and freq. you are correct ... A zinc penny VDI is approx. 55... the ring if I remember correctly while it was still in the ground hit about 50 VDI. and yes a higher karate ring would hit higher or it could be another electrically similar target. a screw cap can hit in the quarter range but the freq. is generally quite different.

There is a setting that is called correlate and it helps further determine a target.. it is especially good in separating iron from good targets and I am just getting to know that mode.

So with all this said and as you well know many other targets can hit similar VDI , size and composition will alter read outs.
There are a number of methods to gain more target info but that is another book entirely..:laughing7:

The V is an amazing machine and virtually every aspect of the machine can be adjusted which can actually hinder performance if you set conflicting controls.

Well I hope this helps and like I said I don't want to hijack this excellent thread but will be happy to help if I can maybe through PMs or a new thread.
Also remember I am still learning this machine and don't get out as much as I would like.

Best regards.
William...aka.... johnedoe

Here is a short vid on the mixed mode stereo program being used to find those small Roman coins.



And one more vid getting those Roman coins among the iron and other trash.



Thanks William for answering my questions so promptly and for the additional detailed information about a fine multi-frequency detector that can do well in a number of metal detecting applications. It is readily apparent that you have a very good opinion of it, and your enthusiasm is rather ā€˜catchingā€™.

Thankyou for posting the two videos, I enjoyed viewing the mixed mode audio responses and pretty fair target separation despite the large coil. I couldnā€™t help thinking that some of those deeper small iron type signals might actually be non-ferrous targets misidentified due to disturbed ground conditions. In that specific area where a number of Roman coins were dug, I would have checked some of those deeper ā€˜ironā€™ signals just to be sure.

Jim.
 

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