Benchtesting Rocks & Minerals with a VLF Metal Detector

Jim Hemmingway

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Benchtesting Rocks & Minerals with a VLF Metal Detector

Introduction

From the earliest time when we were aware of our surroundings, most of us looked for pretty rocks. We wondered what interesting or valuable minerals might possibly comprise them. Now as adult hobbyists, I doubt if any of us hasn’t benchtested an interesting rock from curiosity, and wondered what actually produced the signal.

Although a sensitive benchtest usually has little in common with how marginally conductive rocks and minerals respond to metal detectors in the field due to ground effects, we can learn and become familiar with how rocks and minerals in our respective areas respond to metal detectors in a benchtest. A sensitive metal detector’s electromagnetic field penetrates rocks, usually generating either a positive or a negative signal in response to whatever material is in the rock. We can sometimes determine whether such signals should be investigated further, or whether worthless iron minerals produced them.

I’d generally describe my benchtest results as worthwhile and informative, but that notwithstanding, I look forward to doing a benchtest because I think it is an intriguing study on its own merit. That said, how do you conduct a benchtest? I’ll describe my methods and hopefully we’ll see what you think about it.

20180605_090428.jpg

Benchtest Requirements and Techniques

Benchtesting ideally requires a visually displayed, fully calibrated, manually adjustable ground balance that covers the entire (soil) mineral range from salt to ferrite. As a minimum, the detector should feature a threshold-based true motion all-metal mode, and preferably an additional true non-motion all-metal mode for significantly improved sensitivity to borderline samples. Visual displays in either of the true all-metal modes are essential for target ID, Fe3O4 magnetic susceptibility and GB readouts.

I prefer a small (concentric) coil to promote detector stability and improve sensitivity to the rock sample, to ensure uniform sample exposure to the coil, and to minimize EMI (electromagnetic interference) especially if benchtesting at home. Elevate the sensitivity control as high as possible while maintaining reasonable detector stability such that you can clearly hear changes to the threshold.

To check for a target ID, move the sample back and forth across the coil at a distance that produces the best signal but does not overload the coil. To determine ground balance and Fe3O4 readouts, advance the sample toward the coil, back and forth to within an inch or two (depending on sample size and signal strength) of the coil’s electrical sweetspot. Ensure your hand does not come within detection range of the coil to avoid creating false signals. If you extend your fingers to hold the sample, this is not an issue when testing larger samples. If necessary use a plastic or wood food holder that can firmly grasp small samples.

20180529_072814.jpg

Benchtests should be conducted utilizing a minimum of two widely diverse GB control adjustments. Initially I prefer the same GB control adjustment that is typically required to keep my detector ground-balanced to the substrates in my prospecting areas. It’s a personal preference that works for me. Using the F75 as an example here, that particular GB control point (F75 / GB86) is more likely to improve any rock or mineral sample’s signal strength compared to using a more reduced (more conductive) GB compensation point.

The next step is to use a dramatically reduced GB control adjustment (F75 / GB45) as suggested by Fisher Research Engineering. This setting ensures that (obviously weathered) oxidized samples do not generate a positive signal from any type of non-conductive iron mineral inclusions, particularly maghemite mineralization that may be present within such rocks. It follows that this second benchtest will, if anything, slightly subtract from the sample signal strength, particularly with low grade and otherwise marginally conductive samples, compared to the first step of the benchtest at GB86.

As a general rule, I do not recommend the F75 / GB45 compensation point for benchtesting (non-oxidized) mafic samples that are dominated by constituents such as common magnetite or other black minerals that normally support highly (non-conductive) elevated GB readouts. Such samples can produce strong negative threshold responses at the reduced GB compensation point. It will be difficult or impossible for the signal from a marginally conductive substance to successfully compete with those negative threshold signals. For non-oxidized samples Fisher Research Engineering suggests using F75 / GB65 rather than the F75 / GB45 compensation point, since obvious iron mineral oxidation should visually be absent from such samples.

With the above discussion in mind, extremely fine-grained, unweathered magnetite that occurs in pyroclastic material (for example volcanic ash) can drop into the GB45 range, but it is extremely rare. Unweathered volcanics do frequently drop into the GB70's due to submicron magnetite, but the recommended F75 / GB65 compensation point will eliminate those positive signals.

20180528_024107.jpg

The arsenopyrite sample depicted above is a good example of a commonplace mineral that we encounter in the silverfields of northeastern Ontario. Generally field examples could be described as marginally conductive and many are low-grade. A good many react with only a mild positive signal, and sometimes not at all to a benchtest depending on which GB compensation point is used.

The high-grade, solidly structured sample above produces a strong positive signal in either zero discrimination or true motion all-metal mode with the ground balance control adjusted to the GB compensation point required for our moderately high mineralized soils. As noted, that’s approximately F75 / GB86, although in the field, of course, it varies somewhat depending on location and coil type / size employed.

The response is not as strong as a similar size and shape metalliferous sample would produce, but it does generate a surprisingly strong benchtest signal that would be readily detectable in the field. Even with the GB control dramatically reduced to more conductive values (F75 / GB45), to ensure that any positive signals produced by non-conductive iron mineral inclusions should now only produce a negative threshold signal, it is no surprise that this (non-oxidized) specimen continues to generate a strong signal.

20180605_073755.jpg

For those readers unfamiliar with detector responses to such minerals, the same general response scenario described above with arsenopyrite applies to other marginally conductive minerals such as galena, pyrrhotite and to a lesser extent even iron pyrites. Ordinary iron pyrites is generally innocuous, but maghemitized pyrite, pyrrhotite, and the copper sulfide ores, particularly bornite and chalcocite, can be a real nuisance in the field due to magnetic susceptibility, magnetic viscosity, and / or electrical conductivity, just depending on what minerals are involved.

Such variable responses from arsenopyrite and many other mineral and metalliferous examples clearly infer that signal strength and potential target ID depends on a sample’s physical and chemical characteristics, including the quantity of material within a given rock. These factors include structure, size, shape, purity (overall grade), and magnetic susceptible strength of iron mineral inclusions. Moreover, the VLF detector’s sensitivity, the GB compensation points employed, the coil type and size, and the sample profile presented to the coil further influence benchtest target signal strength and / or potential target ID readouts.

Incidentally, neither of my PI units will respond to the arsenopyrite sample depicted above, even with a TDI Pro equipped with a small round 5” mono coil, the GB control turned off, and a 10 usec pulse delay to deliver its most sensitive detection capability. That result is typical of most, but certainly not all sulfides and arsenides that occur in my areas. Higher grade and solidly structured pyrrhotite, an unwelcome nuisance iron sulfide, and collectible niccolite, a nickel arsenide, are commonplace mineral occurrences here that do respond strongly to PI units, although their respective VLF target ID ranges are quite different.

As a related but slight diversion, the photo below depicts a handsome example of the widely occurring mineral sphalerite. It forms in both sedimentary beds, and in low temperature ore veins. It is interesting to collectors because it possesses a dodecahedral cleavage which means that it breaks smoothly in twelve directions, and it is usually triboluminescent, meaning that it gives off a flash of light when struck sharply. Like many desirable minerals lurking in prospecting country, unfortunately sphalerite doesn’t react to metal detectors.

0.3 LB SPHALERITE SF17GG.JPG

A Final Word

The foregoing is intended to illustrate that sensitive metal detectors can be utilized as a supplementary tool to assist with evaluating rocks and minerals. There is no question that the benchtest has serious limitations, particularly if trying to distinguish positive signals produced by some types of iron mineral inclusions from weak conductive signals.

That notwithstanding, a positive signal that persists below the F75 / GB45 compensation point cannot be confused with iron mineral negative threshold signals produced at that same compensation point. Therefore a positive signal merits further investigation. Such signals are almost certain to be generated by a marginally conductive mineral or a metalliferous substance.

On the more interpretive side of a benchtest, we need to point out that weak positive signals from lower-grade samples of minerals such as arsenopyrite, galena, pyrrhotite, chalcopyrite, and doubtless a few others, may disappear well before the GB control is reduced to the F75 / GB45 compensation point. We learn early that benchtests are frequently equivocal and require interpretation based on any further evidence that might support the benchtest result. Look for iron oxidation in addition to structural or other physical evidence as described above that could explain why a sample reacts as it does to a metal detector.

Jim.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Great thread here Jim.
As you may remember or not since it has been a while since I last chimed in..... I use a V3i.
It has some great features, one of which is called "Ground Probe"
It measures the conductivity of the ground matrix as well as reading the full VDI range.
It may be a very useful tool in the V3i bag.

Here is a description from a post at White's forum.

Well that didn't work so here is a link to the post.
Ground Probe

Hi Johnedoe… of course I remember you, and follow your posts both here and over on Steve’s Detector Prospector forum. It was you who made quite an effort three or so years ago to explain the V3i general operation to me. It made quite a positive impression.

I’ve read the Ground Probewrite-up, there is no doubt that it is quite adequate for benchtesting rocks and minerals if the ground balance can be manually adjusted. Otherwise it performs the same ground monitoring tasks as my F75.

It also describes magnetic susceptibility as the magnetic strength of ground minerals in contrast to discussing “amounts” as we see elsewhere. “Amounts” is rather ambiguous. Soils in my area are dominated by a relatively innocuous non-conductive iron mineral called goethite (dominant in brown soils of more northerly temperate areas of the continent) but it will have very little effect on VLF metal detector operation compared to similar “amounts” of magnetite or maghemite.

Better to stick with the concept of “strength" of soil minerals as described in the Ground Probe article, because regardless of "amounts" it is the magnetic susceptible strength of iron minerals that adversely affect VLF metal detector operation.

Thankyou for getting in touch with me, a real nice surprise to hear from you!!! :)

Jim.

TOURMALINE CRYSTALS SFCLO18WG.JPG


 

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johnedoe

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Greetings Jim.

Thank you for your kind words.

I will have to re-read your 1st post so I can better understand your goals with the test and see if I can better describe what I understand the Ground Probe functionality can be used to display beyond the original intent of the function.

As it is, the definition given is regarding how it is used to help determine ground mineralization but it measures the entire VDI range -95-+95 of the object and it's composition.

I guess I don't understand what ground balancing has to do with bench testing a particular rock/sample when it is out of the ground.... seems all you would want is the composition signal of the sample..... This is where I am not clear of what it is you are attempting....???
If you would clarify that for me it will help in my tests and explanations in future posts.

I unfortunately do not have a source of samples like you have to test. I will in the next few days (probably more) try to put some things together to do some testing with and let you know what I come up with as well as provide images and the collected data.

Always a pleasure.
William....aka....johnedoe
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Greetings Jim.

Thank you for your kind words.

I will have to re-read your 1st post so I can better understand your goals with the test and see if I can better describe what I understand the Ground Probe functionality can be used to display beyond the original intent of the function.

As it is, the definition given is regarding how it is used to help determine ground mineralization but it measures the entire VDI range -95-+95 of the object and it's composition.

I guess I don't understand what ground balancing has to do with bench testing a particular rock/sample when it is out of the ground.... seems all you would want is the composition signal of the sample..... This is where I am not clear of what it is you are attempting....???
If you would clarify that for me it will help in my tests and explanations in future posts.

I unfortunately do not have a source of samples like you have to test. I will in the next few days (probably more) try to put some things together to do some testing with and let you know what I come up with as well as provide images and the collected data.

Always a pleasure.
William....aka....johnedoe

Hi William… first, benchtesting eliminates any influence from ground minerals on a potential signal from a suspect rock, therefore it is more sensitive than simply scanning a rock on the ground surface.

The more sensitive ground balance control adjustment technique should be used as described in the article. Keep in mind that many rocks do not produce a strong enough signal to generate a target ID (VDI) number.

First, using either a motion or non-motion all-metal mode, and a typical ground balance setting for your area, you determine whether a rock or mineral actually produces a signal. If a signal is produced, then lower the ground balance compensation point to where all non-conductive iron minerals (such as hematite, magnetite, limonite, goethite, and maghemite to name some common ones), produce only a negative threshold response (signal).

If you don’t have suitable iron mineral samples, contact White’s Metal Detectors and ask them to provide a suitable ground balance compensation point to accomplish this task. Someone in the engineering department will have the answer for you.

If a signal is still produced at the lower (more conductive) ground balance compensation point, it infers that there is a conductive substance in the rock, whether it be a native metal or some other conductive material such as a sulfide. You can refer to the above article for several common sulfide examples illustrated there.

What do we hope to achieve? We hope to identify rocks that produce a signal, and eliminate the possibility that such signal is produced by iron mineralizations. That rock should then be investigated further. For example, mortar / pestle, crushing / panning or whatever technique is selected to identify what is in the rock.

It is a handy technique similar to using the more sensitive Falcon 20 unit at 300 kHz to separate out conductives from non-conductives. It is not a fully dependable technique in examples where samples contain both strong iron minerals such as maghemite (or magnetite) combined with conductive values in the same rock, and it obviously doesn’t preclude using more invasive techniques as just described in the preceding paragraph.

Now let’s look at an example. The rock below was found by eyesight while hiking along an old abandoned rail line traversing an area I wanted to explore. The rail line bedding was created from discarded mine tailings. I saw this calcite rock lying on the surface, picked it up and observed that it had flecks and spots of either pyrite / chalcopyrite mineralization. There were a couple of small veinlets of lustrous gray material as well. These I recognized as oxidized, but non-conductive ruby silver. So I put it in my knapsack to check back at camp.

I didn’t need to do ground balance adjustments, because as you can see, it produced a good strong signal sufficient to provide a target ID. But out of habit I reduced the F75’s ground balance to GB45 to eliminate any possibility of non-conductive iron minerals producing any signal. The result was the same. This is a fine example of benchtesting a suspect rock that produced a positive result. It encouraged me to do further work on it, an acid bath to expose the silver within it, followed by a rotary tool and silicon carbide bit to finish it..................... Jim.

2.2 LB NATIVE RUBY AG SFYGG18RDRS.JPG
 

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johnedoe

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OK so far I think we are on the same page regarding bench testing and it eliminating the influence of the ground.

If I can come up with some specimens that will be adequate test subjects I will do some testing ... It will be very interesting to see what the V can do using the ground probe. I also got to thinking about the polar plot and of course just what the 3 frequencies will show in this diagnostic mode.

It is going to take me a bit to scrounge up some adequate test specimens but I will come up with something that should display what we are looking for.

Regarding polar plot... That is a very interesting mode and i have come to a place that has minimized my digging of most foil and can slaw by using it... I will get some pics of the display next time I am out to show you.

Best regards.
William....aka....johnedoe
 

johnedoe

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Well I am having a harder time finding suitable samples so I think I will just have to cancel this experiment till I get to someplace that may provide sample that are close to what you have shown.... otherwise this wouldn't be much of a test.

To bad we aren't a few miles closer together..... But I'm not driving 3000+ miles for this....:laughing7:

Now if you want to test black sand...... I got tons of that stuff here on the beaches....:laughing7:

Sorry to disappoint.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Hi William… no worries, your V3i is a very capable unit. I have no doubt that it will serve you well if the need for benchtesting should arise. Besides, it has been nice to be able to chat with you on the subject, and that interaction makes posting this type of article to the forum a worthwhile exercise.

I’d like to reiterate that benchtesting rocks and minerals is a simple technique that prospectors should know about, and understand how one should go about it. Even here in the silverfields where silver is quite common compared to gold in the western areas of the continent, it is a technique that I only infrequently use. I’ll give you an additional example of how I’ve put it to good use.

In the autumn of 2011, I was trenching a very productive area that opened into a pocket of white calcite ores. These had little or no indication of silver on the surface, but we have learned not to ignore calcite ores because they’re typically associated with the original silver veins and frequently contain some amount of silver.

Some samples would respond in true all-metal motion mode but many of those would not generate a target ID. The ones that continued to signal at GB45 (to eliminate positive iron mineral signals) were kept. Prior to heading home later in the season, thinking they really had no value as specimens, I dropped them off to a local friend who operated a small smelting operation at the time. He later messaged me that those rocks averaged one-half OZT refined Ag per pound of rock processed. That information did surprise me.

I gained a new appreciation for the value of benchtesting suspect rocks / ores, and the desirability of eliminating any positive ground / iron minerals responses. As has been discussed here earlier, a rock that continues to signal at F75 / GB45, or its equivalent on other detector models, should be investigated further to identify the conductive substance producing the signal.

Even a 13 kHz F75 provides a very sensitive benchtest at GB45, and this is particularly so because with most rocks I’ve tested, there has been little or no evidence to suggest that ferromagnetic minerals have substantively affected the benchtest’s sensitivity. That means I’ve usually seen very little difference between the F75 / GB86 and F75 / GB45 test results. In any case William, I think it is better to at least know about this technique, even if you have no need for it most of the time……………….. Jim.

0.7 LB GALENA GLASS SF16GG.JPG
 

johnedoe

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Hi Jim...
If I should come across a specimen that seems like a good test subject I will certainly run it.
However here on the coast where I am we have a lot a basalt and sandstone. To get to an area with some potential is several hours south of me and we just don't get down that way very often.

There is quite a lot of serpentinite as well as some serpentine of low grade, it may be an interesting test?

Anyway always a pleasure to read your articles and occasionally chime in though my knowledge is no where near yours.

Happy hunting.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Hi Jim...
If I should come across a specimen that seems like a good test subject I will certainly run it.
However here on the coast where I am we have a lot a basalt and sandstone. To get to an area with some potential is several hours south of me and we just don't get down that way very often.

There is quite a lot of serpentinite as well as some serpentine of low grade, it may be an interesting test?

Anyway always a pleasure to read your articles and occasionally chime in though my knowledge is no where near yours.

Happy hunting.

Hi William… I have a small sample of serpentinite depicted below, that I’ve checked with my F75. At 0.3 % equivalent magnetite and a GB90 readout, in some areas it could be VLF detectable as a surface negative hotrock, particularly using a sensitive high frequency VLF unit. You might try to find a similar size dark sample that is roughly an inch in diameter to test on your V3i. My sample was benchtested using a 10” elliptical concentric coil.

Prior to reading about it in my mineral field guide today, I didn’t appreciate that the process referred to as serpentinization also produces magnetite and brucite. Although serpentinite is a low-grade metamorphic rock, the grade can vary from one area to the next depending on the parent rock material. That means that your readings may vary somewhat from mine, although we should still expect to see an Fe3O4 readout indicating some modest level of magnetic susceptible strength………………. Jim.

PS: a concentrated black sand sample would do fine to check as well.

0.6 OZT SERPENTINITE SFGGY17.JPG
 

johnedoe

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Hello Jim.

Next time I'm in Gold Beach I will pick up some of the serpentinite.

As far as black sand goes................ Oh I think I can get a little of that....LOL

IMG_0833.JPG IMG_0834.JPG
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Hello Jim.

Next time I'm in Gold Beach I will pick up some of the serpentinite.

As far as black sand goes................ Oh I think I can get a little of that....LOL

View attachment 1624372 View attachment 1624373

WOW!!! Over the years I've hunted many freshwater beaches here in Ontario, including our fabulous beaches along Lake Huron and Georgian Bay (Wasaga Beach for example), but I've never seen anything remotely close to what is depicted in your photos.

No, I don't suppose you'll have any issues with collecting some black sand to check on your V3i metal detector. Thanks William for posting such unique and fascinating scene photos. :cool:

0.9 OZT LOW-GRADE CUPRITE TWO SF17GG.JPG


 

johnedoe

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Hi Jim.
If you would like some of that black sand I would be happy to send you some to sample and play with...
Heck there might even be a bit of beach gold in it.....:laughing7:

Here is another pic of a black sand layer that ya have to dig a little to get to.
This pic and the surface pics are from Cape Disappointment. It is the S.W. point of Washington State just south of the light house.

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TerryC

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VERY NICE post, my friend. Informative and you do know the subject material! I have used my Gold Bug 2 for air tests many years now. I CAN use my hand to GB small samples using the GB2. The trick is (and many are not aware of this) that you can balance out the hand minerals as you would a sample. I cannot vouch for other detectors but after balancing my "hand salts" out, the GB2 will sound off on the smallest target in the hand. Good to hear from you again! ╦╦Ç
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Hi Jim.
If you would like some of that black sand I would be happy to send you some to sample and play with...
Heck there might even be a bit of beach gold in it.....:laughing7:

Here is another pic of a black sand layer that ya have to dig a little to get to.
This pic and the surface pics are from Cape Disappointment. It is the S.W. point of Washington State just south of the light house.

View attachment 1624640

Hi William… thanks for the offer but we have lots of black sand in these parts, although not nearly in the quantity that you depict in your photos. The photo above is an outstanding illustration of layered deposits.

Question: why is it named Cape Disappointment? Is it because there is no natural shelter / harbor available for ships caught in stormy weather? It does sound rather ominous.

Below is crystalline magnetite with the readouts for you. I think your black sand ought to give you similar, although perhaps not identical readouts. You might want to check and see how your V3i responds for comparison sake………………….. Jim.

0.5 LB CRYSTALLINE MAGNETITE SFBBRS.JPG
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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VERY NICE post, my friend. Informative and you do know the subject material! I have used my Gold Bug 2 for air tests many years now. I CAN use my hand to GB small samples using the GB2. The trick is (and many are not aware of this) that you can balance out the hand minerals as you would a sample. I cannot vouch for other detectors but after balancing my "hand salts" out, the GB2 will sound off on the smallest target in the hand. Good to hear from you again! ╦╦Ç

Howdy Terry… thanks for dropping around and sharing your GB2 technique. I tried it on my GB2 and found that even at its minimum GB control adjustment, there was only a very modest loss of sensitivity to a half-grain lead nugget attached to a popsicle stick. It still signaled to it nicely at two inches or so. No worries, I ate the popsicle before doing the benchtest. :)

I suspect my GB2 is a slightly different version from your unit because the minimum GB control adjustment only moderately reduced the positive signal from my hand. It suggests that my unit’s GB range is more limited. I bought it in Canada in 2010 so it’s probably an El Paso version. Also too, I know that increasing the threshold to maximum will not affect depth / sens in the discriminate mode, whereas I recall that technique worked with the original version.

BTW, I used max volume / sensitivity, the “low mineralization” setting, and a 10” elliptical concentric coil to benchtest the Goldbug2, and max volume / sensitivity and 10” elliptical concentric for the F75.

I had to reduce the F75’s GB control to GB ZERO to ground balance my hand. Even then, I can’t quite eliminate a slight positive signal. At GB45 and moreso with GB86, my hand produces a fairly strong signal. Now checking the half-grain lead nugget, the signal is much stronger at the GB86 and GB45 settings than it is at the GB ZERO setting.

The GB ZERO setting produces a very slight (questionable) positive signal because the lead nugget was pretty well ground-balanced out. Obviously a salt range (GB ZERO) GB compensation point on the F75 is not a good choice to do a sensitive benchtest.

Quite different results between my two units, it might be a good idea for interested hobbyists to run this test to evaluate how their own detector model responds at various GB compensation points to a tiny metal target.

Thankyou very much Terry for your thoughts on the subject as they pertain to your Goldbug2. This is exactly the type of technical comment from a veteran nuggetshooter that I had hoped for when I posted this article. :icon_thumright:

Jim.

0.9 OZT TREMOLITE THREE SF16GG.JPG



 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Hi Jim....
Not sure how the cape really got it's name but this seems to be the recorded version.

English fur trader John Meares names Cape Disappointment on July 6, 1788. - HistoryLink.org

An excellent read that does clarify how the name "Cape Disappointment" came into existence and has survived alternate names from other explorers. Thanks William, it was a very captivating, historical article that renders my earlier surmise about a lack of safe haven / harbor as totally irrelevant....... Jim.

1.7 LB RUBYNATIVE AG SFYG18.JPG
 

TerryC

Gold Member
Jun 26, 2008
7,735
10,996
Yarnell, AZ
Detector(s) used
Ace 250 (2), Ace 300, Gold Bug 2, Tesoro Cortes, Garrett Sea Hunter, Whites TDI SL SE, Fisher Impulse 8, Minelab Monster 1000, Minelab CTX3030, Falcon MD20, Garrett Pro-pointer, Calvin Bunker digger.
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
I know my GB2 very well..... mainstay for the Stanton-Rich Hill area. I am still "learning" my newer Whites TDI SL SE. As you know, the TDI is a PI machine, a good compliment to the GB2. I hope to get expert instruction from Southern or another instructor of his caliber on a PI machine. I had a salesman at Outdoor Outfitters (Waukesha WI) give me a demonstration on the new F75 years ago. I found it a VERY sensitive machine but too much EFI from power lines at about 100 yards away. I passed back then. Tnx for responding, friend! ╦╦Ç
 

OP
OP
Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
790
1,620
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
I know my GB2 very well..... mainstay for the Stanton-Rich Hill area. I am still "learning" my newer Whites TDI SL SE. As you know, the TDI is a PI machine, a good compliment to the GB2. I hope to get expert instruction from Southern or another instructor of his caliber on a PI machine.

I had a salesman at Outdoor Outfitters (Waukesha WI) give me a demonstration on the new F75 years ago. I found it a VERY sensitive machine but too much EFI from power lines at about 100 yards away. I passed back then. Tnx for responding, friend! ╦╦Ç

Oh yes, my original F75 version is very much subject to erratic behavior in areas where EMI is present Terry. Hunting urban areas in zero discrimination is frequently impossible. Subsequent F75 versions have resolved the EMI issue, and Fisher has in the past offered an upgrade service to owners of earlier models as well. I didn’t bother with upgrading because there have been comments on the forums about loss of depth / sensitivity, and frankly I’ve been able to control my unit by adhering to a few simple procedures.

I rarely use the stock 11” DD coil in urban areas because it invites EMI issues and is not nearly as sensitive as the smaller coils, and that includes the 10” elliptical concentric, to small stuff. In remote areas, my original F75 is normally as quiet as a churchmouse regardless which search mode or coil is used.

In areas of problematic EMI, employ a smaller coil, and preferably a concentric coil. Concentrics are less prone to EMI (less windings / antenna effect) than are the DD coils I prefer my 6” elliptical concentric, and it is ideal for prospecting purposes. The depth is surprising on large stuff, and yet it is very sensitive to shallow small stuff less than a half-grain. Certainly not a Goldbug2, or other high frequency units on the tiniest of sub-grain pickers, but on the other hand it does go deeper on larger stuff.

Of course for prospecting applications, the first option is to search in the motion all-metal mode. It is much less vulnerable to EMI than are any of the discriminate modes.

If using a discriminate mode, avoid JE mode in EMI areas because it is extremely high gain, and therefore much more sensitive to EMI than are the DE or PF general search modes. If necessary, subsequently increase the iron discrimination and check how it behaves with the coil on the ground, not waving it around in the air. The coil on the ground normally settles it right down, but continue to increase iron discrimination until any erratic behavior settles down.

I have never experienced any issue operating this unit anywhere when the above steps are employed. In fact I benchtest right in the house in the motion all-metal mode, normally with max sensitivity and small 6”elliptical concentric coil.

As to your TDI SL Terry, I have the TDI Pro. The SL is more sensitive to small stuff whereas mine is used for much larger native silver hunting. Years ago I wrote an article describing how it is used here. A few years later, I upgraded that article to reflect my subsequent experience with it.

Much of the information will apply to your unit, and you’ve nothing to lose by taking a few moments to read it. Ignore the section that compares the Garrett Infinium.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/c...ntry-infinium-comparison-february-2011-a.html

Jim.

1.4 LB NICCOLITE SF17BG.JPG
 

TerryC

Gold Member
Jun 26, 2008
7,735
10,996
Yarnell, AZ
Detector(s) used
Ace 250 (2), Ace 300, Gold Bug 2, Tesoro Cortes, Garrett Sea Hunter, Whites TDI SL SE, Fisher Impulse 8, Minelab Monster 1000, Minelab CTX3030, Falcon MD20, Garrett Pro-pointer, Calvin Bunker digger.
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Oh yes, my original F75 version is very much subject to erratic behavior in areas where EMI is present Terry. Hunting urban areas in zero discrimination is frequently impossible. Subsequent F75 versions have resolved the EMI issue, and Fisher has in the past offered an upgrade service to owners of earlier models as well. I didn’t bother with upgrading because there have been comments on the forums about loss of depth / sensitivity, and frankly I’ve been able to control my unit by adhering to a few simple procedures.

I rarely use the stock 11” DD coil in urban areas because it invites EMI issues and is not nearly as sensitive as the smaller coils, and that includes the 10” elliptical concentric, to small stuff. In remote areas, my original F75 is normally as quiet as a churchmouse regardless which search mode or coil is used.

In areas of problematic EMI, employ a smaller coil, and preferably a concentric coil. Concentrics are less prone to EMI (less windings / antenna effect) than are the DD coils I prefer my 6” elliptical concentric, and it is ideal for prospecting purposes. The depth is surprising on large stuff, and yet it is very sensitive to shallow small stuff less than a half-grain. Certainly not a Goldbug2, or other high frequency units on the tiniest of sub-grain pickers, but on the other hand it does go deeper on larger stuff.

Of course for prospecting applications, the first option is to search in the motion all-metal mode. It is much less vulnerable to EMI than are any of the discriminate modes.

If using a discriminate mode, avoid JE mode in EMI areas because it is extremely high gain, and therefore much more sensitive to EMI than are the DE or PF general search modes. If necessary, subsequently increase the iron discrimination and check how it behaves with the coil on the ground, not waving it around in the air. The coil on the ground normally settles it right down, but continue to increase iron discrimination until any erratic behavior settles down.

I have never experienced any issue operating this unit anywhere when the above steps are employed. In fact I benchtest right in the house in the motion all-metal mode, normally with max sensitivity and small 6”elliptical concentric coil.

As to your TDI SL Terry, I have the TDI Pro. The SL is more sensitive to small stuff whereas mine is used for much larger native silver hunting. Years ago I wrote an article describing how it is used here. A few years later, I upgraded that article to reflect my subsequent experience with it.

Much of the information will apply to your unit, and you’ve nothing to lose by taking a few moments to read it. Ignore the section that compares the Garrett Infinium.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/c...ntry-infinium-comparison-february-2011-a.html

Jim.
I will check out the reference, Jim. Tnx. Are you aware that my TDI SL is the very first TDI SL SE (special Edition)? I was told my SE version was the very first ordered.... before it was even advertised in the states. It seems (to me) that it may be an "experiment". Let's see where they go with it. Take care, my friend. ╦╦Ç
 

Lanny in AB

Gold Member
Apr 2, 2003
5,659
6,356
Alberta
Detector(s) used
Various Minelabs(5000, 2100, X-Terra 705, Equinox 800, Gold Monster), Falcon MD20, Tesoro Sand Shark, Gold Bug Pro, Makro Gold Racer.
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Jim,

Really enjoy what you've posted here, and it's nice to see such a professional so willing to share your hard-earned knowledge with others. You sir are a detecting treasure in your own right. Many thanks.

All the best,

Lanny
 

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