Interesting comparison: DFX, X70, GMT

[LuvinRetirement]

My wife and I are newbies at nugget hunting. We were at a GPAA claim in AZ to try to find a nugget or two. Our White's DFX with the oval 10" DD coil made loud, strange noises in the factory "Prospecting" mode, and the program that I got off of the "DFX Only" forum for nuggets was even worse. There was no way of knowing when the DFX was over a target since it made loud continuous noises. I tried lowering the sensitivity, lowering the gain and ground balancing several times to no avail. I tried the DFX over a small nugget (a picker) and got no responce. I finally gave up on that detector.

I tried my Minelab X-70 with the oval 10" DD coil over the same ground and it was fine. Then I put the same small nugget on the ground and tried several settings of sensitivity, tracking on and off, ground balance +0, +1 and +2, and different heights in its prospecting mode. The X70 would only respond to the nugget at a height of about 2" or less. Not impressive!

Then I talked to a guy who had a White's GMT about 50' feet away. We repeated the experiment of putting the same small nugget on the ground and tried the GMT. Wow! That GMT sang out loud at about a foot or more from the nugget. He said he finds much smaller pieces of gold at the same distance.

Am I doing something wrong with the DFX and X70? A newbie needs any inputs you might have?

Thanks,
-Dick

 

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[Eu_citzen]

GMT is a strictly gold machine while your 2 are not. This gives it a very big advantage for (natural) gold in general
and the GB is better to I suppose.

Did you try to manually ground balance or was is made automatic?

The DFX is way more an "allround" (aka relic, coin and similar) because of the properties the "allround" machines will not preform very well with the gold except if it is big enough. It should not have picked up the picker so it made just what I'd thought it would. Also how mineralized is the area? Some VLF machines will have trouble to GB in high mineralization.

The X70 I can't tell you anything about maybe someone else?

 

[LuvinRetirement]

Hi Eu_citzen,

I tried both manual and auto balancing. The loud noises didn't change. I ran out of ideas. I am beginning to think that the DFX is not going to work as a nugget hunter in AZ because the ground is so mineralized here. It will be interesting to hear what some of the GMT nugget hunters in AZ have to say. Is the GMT good in mineralized ground around Rich Hill for instance?

Thanks for your ideas.

-Dick

 

[sniffer]

the DFX will find gold, but you have to get to know your machine. typically a gold machine like the GMT operates at 50 kHz, while a Xlt operates at 6.6 kHz. the DFX operates at 3 kHz and or 15 kHz.
When you try the DFX again turn down your AC sensitivity by one, it normally runs at 3.
also, read your manual that comes with it and play with the machine to teach yourself all the in and outs.
one other thing, according to the book, the DFX will pick up gold down to 6 microns in size, that's about the size of a pin head. I would turn down the AC sensitivity, run only in 15 kHz, mixed mode

Sniffer

 

[LuvinRetirement]

Thanks, Sniffer, for the inputs. We are headed for Rich Hill in a few days so I will try your ideas and post the results.

-Dick

 

[Eu_citzen]

Hey Sniffer 6 microns you say BullShit! The it be MUCH better then the GMT. 1 micron is 0.001 millimeters.

LR: Try hot rock reject and increase it, try a smaller coil it "sees" less ground might get better that way to.

 

[Jim McCulloch]

Dick, the factory preset for the Prospecting mode on the DFX is far too "hot," you will need to reduce the gain from 45 to (maybe) 28 to regain stability. Do that, and your noise problem will likely abate. Problem is, though, that the DFX, with the 950 loop, will find nuggets as small as 6 grains (large wheat grain), whereas the GMT will find flakes as small as 1/10th grain. More DFX prospecting hints: as mentioned, reduce gain, ALSO increase SAT speed, increase tracking speed, use a smaller coil, and/or use a DD coil. BUT.... if you want to be serious about nugget hunting in AZ, get the GMT for nuggets, or, for truly multi-purpose use, trade your DFX in for an MXT. If you can make it to the Gold Prospectors of America Gold Show in Primm, NV, this weekend, drop by my booth, and I'll show you a comparison of all three machines. HH Jim McCulloch, dba "Jim's Metal Detectors" in Yucca Valley CA.

 

[sniffer]

my mistake the book says 6 grain. it also says to use the prospect mode, all metals respond with a beep, but, only possible gold targets read with a VDI number. if you still have the owners manual go to page 55, it tells you about the various programs and what the settings are.
again, I apologize for the misinformation, big difference between a micron and a grain. LOL

Sniffer

 

[LuvinRetirement]

Thanks guys for all the inputs. We finally got out to a GPAA claim near Morristown,AZ today. I tuned the DFX for a long time using a "picker" nugget. Jim, I tried your changes and finally got the DFX to quit making the loud noises. Thats the good news. The bad news is that it would not react to the small nugget. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that I need to buy a GMT if I am going to find small nuggets. For what it is worth, the Minelab X70 would react to the small nugget, but not beyond about 2". The X70 is not turning out to be the nugget hunter that I had heard that it is suppose to be, even with the eliptical 10" DD coil. Frustrating!

-Dick

 

[Eu_citzen]

Frustrating it might be but not surprising. Those are still "all round machines" meaning they are more "tuned" towards relic, coin, beach (dry sand) hunting.
They should simply have a hard time trying to pick up a picker, on larger gold you might get a better response.(especially in high mineralization)

Jim said it well.

For small nuggets Gold Bug II or the GMT.

 

[Hoser John]

Nugget hunting is the absolute hardest form of detecting there is.. IT IS NOT A PLACE FOR NEWBIES TO START. You buy multiple detectors and end up spending plenty a cash,get VERY frustrated and closet them. READ,learn and prosper by taking the time for best results. Nothing wrong with getting through the painful learning curve by looking for coins and jewelry to properly learn your equipment FIRST!! Some of the best detectorists I ever trained were at the beach.Tons a au 2 u 2-John

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Hey Hoser,

You got that right!

I've been teaching a bunch of nugget detecting classes lately. One of the things I talk about in the class is inflated expectations. Books, magazines, and the internet all show people with gold finds. What they never show are all the people and all the days of not finding gold! So people think it is easier than it really is. People also expect too much of the detectors. Detection depths on nuggets are normally measured in inches. It takes a lot of practice to become skillful at nugget detecting, and the simple fact is most people do not have the patience for it. You have to have the ability to focus for long hours and never get bored. In fact, I think the main secret is people who are successful find running a detector to be inherently enjoyable. Most people think detecting is boring but are doing it because they think it will get them gold.

If you can go detecting for eight hours and dig nothing but bullets and nails and at the end of the day consider it time well spent you will most likely be a successful nugget hunter. If that sounds like a waste of time then maybe panning, sluicing, or dredging (drywashing?) would be a better way to go. But if you decide to give it a go commit to no less than 50 hours of detecting to get up to speed. Keep that coil close to the ground, and score yourself by how small the stuff is you find. If all you find is nails and big bullets you need more work. You start bringing home the bird shot, now you are getting it. If you do not want to waste time in the nugget patches, practice near home. Go to a sand lot or around playground equipment - anywhere easy to dig. Go aluminum detecting. Find the smallest bits of aluminum possible. Anyone can find a pull tab. You want little tiny bits of aluminum. You might even find a ring in the process but the main idea is practice, practice, practice! People vastly underestimate how much skill goes into nugget detecting. Think of it as learning a musical instrument. It takes lots of practice to get good, and if you don't do it all the time you will get rusty.

Happy Hunting!!

Steve Herschbach
http://www.akmining.com/mine/steve.htm

 

[Eu_citzen]

Well said Steve!!!!

 

[LuvinRetirement]

Thanks for the inputs! I have had the X70 for several months now and have had a great time finding coins, 3 rings and a watch worth about $1000. So it has more than paid for itself. I can see that I was expecting to find a gold nugget as easily as a gold ring and that just isn't going to happen. I am going to take your advice and do lots of practicing with a test nugget in different soils here in AZ. I am wondering if I am swinging the X70 too fast. Maybe I should slow it down.

Regarding the DFX as a nugget hunter, it isn't. So now I need to get a detector that is specifically for nuggets for my wife (who, by the way is becoming addicted to detecting of all sorts). I suspect that I should get the White's GMT for her.

-Dick

 

[Rifleman]

I've been seeing more than a few reports on the X-Terra 70 in the gold fields and people have been finding gold at more than 2". Read a few of the posts @ www.findmall.com in the X-terra section. Slowing down the swing on the 70 does help find the gold from posts I have read. Be sure to use the auto ground tracking and remember, if you shut it off, it is at the last place the detector GB at, which might not be the ideal GB if you start searching without turning on the auto BM or manually GB the detector. I had my 70 out at Quartzsite, AZ on a friends claim for a shot time and found one small nugget. It was only about 1 inch down, but that does not mean it will not go deeper. One guy in Australia did some tests and found the X-70 would do about 2/3's the depth of a ML 3500. Not bad for a VLF detector.

Good hunting, John K

 

[Keppy]

WHY don't all of you tell him the DFX is not a good gold detector no matter how he sets it. Just put your DFX up and forget about finding gold with it use it for coins and get a gold detector for gold.If you want to find gold don't mess around with a all around detector they are really not good for gold..........==Jim==

 

[LuvinRetirement]

Thanks John and Jim for the info. Regarding the X70, I am going to keep playing with it until I learn to use it to its maximum capability. All the reports that I have read on the internet have said that the X70 is a fairly capable detector.

Regarding my wife's DFX, I now realize that it will never be a gold nugget detector. My wife loves that machine for coins and jewelery so we will keep it for those uses. I have ordered a new White's GMT for her. It should be here (in AZ) tomorrow. Can't wait to try it on one of the GPAA claims.

Everyone has helped this newbie a lot. When we find our first 2 pound nugget, we will let you know (OK, let an old man dream a little. )

-Dick

 

[Keppy]

Thanks John and Jim for the info. Regarding the X70, I am going to keep playing with it until I learn to use it to its maximum capability. All the reports that I have read on the internet have said that the X70 is a fairly capable detector.

Regarding my wife's DFX, I now realize that it will never be a gold nugget detector. My wife loves that machine for coins and jewelery so we will keep it for those uses. I have ordered a new White's GMT for her. It should be here (in AZ) tomorrow. Can't wait to try it on one of the GPAA claims.

Everyone has helped this newbie a lot. When we find our first 2 pound nugget, we will let you know (OK, let an old man dream a little. )

-Dick

...Luvin.........Well i want to see a picture of that 2 pound nugget when you find it........==Jim==

 

[Gold_Needle]

Hi,

you might want to come into the chatroom some night and talk to a couple folks.

Both have the type of machine they use as part of their name.

One felllow, Treasure Hunter XTerra70 loves his machine and uses it well and has programs to share.

The other fellow is DFX and he loves his machine and does well.

They can share a lot of experience.