Fancy Discriminating Detectors when you dig everything anyway

[LewieMD]

OK, so I am new to this hobby. Bought myself a Sand Shark and have been learning how to use it on the local beaches. I have spent considerable hours reading everything I could on this and other forums. In many, many instances seasoned vets state that (when land or dry sand hunting) a particular type of metal will sound like/read like another, gold will read like iron, etc. So the recommendation is to dig everything so as not to miss the goodies, no matter what the readings say. This begs the question: if one should generally dig everything why buy a detector with the displays that indicate what type of metal, depth, and give the option to notch out different types of metals?

On the beach, with my SS, I dig almost everything. Have learned that a bobby pin or a long piece of wire gives me a double beep when pinpointing so I generally pass. However, have also learned that a pull tab, a bottle top and a quarter all sound the same, hence I dig them all. Have yet to find gold so I don't know how that will sound.......but I long to hear it!

So?

 

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[ticm]

I guess you should keep your sand shark. I guess that's what you want to hear. Keep digging.

 

[cudamark]

The reason I want descrimination on the beach is to eliminate iron targets. I've found plenty of gold jewelry and none of them sounded like an iron target on my machine (which has the threshold go null over iron). When I started using it, I dug everything too but after finding that every null sound was junk, I ignored them and concentrated on the non-ferrrous sounds.

 

[LewieMD]

I guess you should keep your sand shark. I guess that's what you want to hear. Keep digging.

Well, I am really after a good, valid explanation. Seems to me that after a year or so I should contemplate buying another machine for land and dry sand. Just trying to learn.

Perhaps you could explain to me? I'd appreciate it.

 

[LewieMD]

The reason I want descrimination on the beach is to eliminate iron targets. I've found plenty of gold jewelry and none of them sounded like an iron target on my machine (which has the threshold go null over iron). When I started using it, I dug everything too but after finding that every null sound was junk, I ignored them and concentrated on the non-ferrrous sounds.

Thanks. Does it go null over bottle caps and pull tabs? I have found that bottle caps are a real pain as there are so many of them.

 

[ticm]

I guess you should keep your sand shark. I guess that's what you want to hear. Keep digging.

Well you mentioned that you were on other forums and heard from other people and that you researched. Don't know what I can add. If you read t- net you would have answered your question. I gotta say though, I am not really sure what your looking to get answered.

 

[Sandman]

OK, so I am new to this hobby. Bought myself a Sand Shark and have been learning how to use it on the local beaches. I have spent considerable hours reading everything I could on this and other forums. In many, many instances seasoned vets state that (when land or dry sand hunting) a particular type of metal will sound like/read like another, gold will read like iron, etc. So the recommendation is to dig everything so as not to miss the goodies, no matter what the readings say. This begs the question: if one should generally dig everything why buy a detector with the displays that indicate what type of metal, depth, and give the option to notch out different types of metals?

On the beach, with my SS, I dig almost everything. Have learned that a bobby pin or a long piece of wire gives me a double beep when pinpointing so I generally pass. However, have also learned that a pull tab, a bottle top and a quarter all sound the same, hence I dig them all. Have yet to find gold so I don't know how that will sound.......but I long to hear it!

So?

Hunters wanted the detectors to display what the target was so they could then decide if they wanted to dig it or not. What they fail to realize is all the meter does is show the conductivity of the item and not in most cases what it really is. Gold jewelry is alloyed with many metals to make it harder to place an icon for it. Add to this the target's orientation in the ground can change the return signal.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Discrimination is primarily more for land hunters than water hunters. I use no discrimination on my ML Excals and Sovereign GT, they null on iron so no iron to dig, 50% of the time I can tell when it is a bottle cap, the coruded ones are harder to tell... Pull tabs and can slaw your going to dig, they are just too close to some gold to not dig them...Brass is anotehr your going to dig....

Now the Minelab CTX3030 is different and I have heard some good reports on its use in the water and saltwater beaches and its ability to tell what some targets are like pennies and so dont need to dig some targets, but the cost on it is more than I want to spend at this time...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You've gotten good answers so far. As far as it pertains to the beach, the only thing you'd want disc. for (and/or TID for that matter), is to pass iron. And I've actually used TID on the beach to pass high conductors at times, when the targets are so fast and furious (after storm/beach/swell/tide erosion) to try to up my odds at getting gold (and passing pesky pennies and quarters )

But on land, there's an answer to your question too: Even on land in relicky situations where someone intends to "dig all" (except iron), your question could be asked there too. I've hunted side by side guys with no TID's (like various Tesoro's, for instance, or a 6000 Di pro, when it was night and the guy couldn't see his needle, etc...). And if I was using my Explorer (with full tone-ID), I'd always whoop them on good targets. So they accused me of "cherry picking" (a reasonable assumption). But I assured them I was "digging all" even though I had TID (d/t we were in a relicky furroughed field historic location, and were after any conductors). But night after night I kept coming away with the higher ratio of coins and buttons. However, our target counts (when you included shredded aluminum, junk, etc...) was about the same. So it certainly appeared I was cherry-picking. FINALLY we figured out what was going on: Even though we were in a "dig all" environment, yet the targets were so numerous to choose from, that I must have been subconsciously favoring the better sounding signals (round, concise, etc...) and subconsciously ignoring the super low foil or bi/multi-raspy beeps. It wasn't a conscious thing, mind you, but a subconscious thing. So in that sense, sometimes the guy with the TID will fare better by the end of the day, when you have a site with oodles of targets to choose from.

Lastly, even if it's true that you'll even dig the raspy ratty bi-tones, foil, etc... it's still fun to hear the various tones, and be making mental assessments before you dig (even though you'll dig anyhow). It adds an element of fun, that you just don't get when everything is a mono-tone.

 

[gleaner1]

Scrim is good. Crank it up so you don't make Mrs. Jones finely manicured lawn look like the aftermath of the Battle of Iwo Jima, after a rough day of hacking up the lawn, digging can slaw, pull tabs, foil, nails and crap. Dont get your hopes up for gold in the turf.

 

[beckleeson]

I have my sand shark for the wet and the water and I use my cutlass II (low discrimination) so i dont have to dig as much junk on the dry sand.

 

[deepskyal]

Does 30 years detecting make me a vet...or my military service...lol.

Depending on where I go depends on whether I'm a dig it all guy or not. When out in the sticks at some old home site I'll dig it all. I happen to like iron. I'll know a nail from a larger piece of iron by the sounds.

I learned on an old t/r with no tid. As I move up on detectors I just naturally relied on sounds...not visuals. Tom is right about the 6000Di Pro. Fun to look at the meter just to confirm what I'm hearing but rarely look at it.

With my Vision and all it's bells and whistles, I'd still kick my own butt using my old 6000 but I can't swing the 6000 very long anymore....arthritis. The vision has variable tones but I still use the monotone. I like to discriminate at parks and such where I don't want to dig iron and just want to find old silver.

The machines are a variable tool that I can use in many different detecting situations, wth different settings. Dig all settings and disc settings.

Al

 

[cudamark]

Thanks. Does it go null over bottle caps and pull tabs? I have found that bottle caps are a real pain as there are so many of them.

No, my detector doesn't go null over pull tabs and rarely over bottle caps. Tabs read too close to nickels and golds rings not to dig them. Bottle cap sounds will depend on the degree of corrosion and decomposition. Fairly fresh caps will mostly give you a scratchy or boingy sound whereas crusty ones can be all over the place in tone. Since it's a beach machine, I just scoop them anyway. I've found many a good target AFTER removing a junk one. In a park, that may be too much work so descrimination is almost a must there. I like fully optioned machines so I can make a decision after all the imput it can tell me. If you rely on just tone or VDI or depth, you're hunting with one arm....it can be done but it's a lot easier with two.

 

[LewieMD]

Well you mentioned that you were on other forums and heard from other people and that you researched. Don't know what I can add. If you read t- net you would have answered your question. I gotta say though, I am not really sure what your looking to get answered.

Thanks for the reply ticm. Let me put it another way: if I was on the beach (dry sand) and had a TID machine would I need to dig every target or would passing on some because they sound like a bottle cap or a pull tab mean that I would be passing on silver/clad coins or a gold wedding band?

Tom in CA said: "As far as it pertains to the beach, the only thing you'd want disc. for (and/or TID for that matter), is to pass iron." so that means I woulod be digging averything except iron: pull tabs, bottle caps, etc.. Therefore, is there any advantage in using the TID machine in the dry sand?

Hope that is clearer.

 

[cudamark]

What I want at the beach is: waterproof detector for the water areas, most depth I can get on a dime size target, and iron descrimination. For me nothing else is needed.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Thanks for the reply ticm. Let me put it another way: if I was on the beach (dry sand) and had a TID machine would I need to dig every target or would passing on some because they sound like a bottle cap or a pull tab mean that I would be passing on silver/clad coins or a gold wedding band?

Tom in CA said: "As far as it pertains to the beach, the only thing you'd want disc. for (and/or TID for that matter), is to pass iron." so that means I woulod be digging averything except iron: pull tabs, bottle caps, etc.. Therefore, is there any advantage in using the TID machine in the dry sand?

Hope that is clearer.

Well, when you say "bottle caps", I assume you mean the type that are also known as "crown top" caps? (as opposed to aluminum screw-cap types). If so, the crown top type contain enough iron in them that they can be oft-times passed with a TID machine (they sound cr*ppy, depending how corroded or fresh, etc...). Other than that, most of us don't pass any conductors on the beach. We'll only pass iron. And a pulse machine can't pass iron (unless you want to try to 2nd-guess sounds all day long).

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Tom is spot on, (as usual)...............Some of the bottle caps ring up as iron and null on my excals ans sov gt, some give the bongy tone and are easy to identify, while others are corroded enough that they can give a good signal till out of the ground or still give a good tone even out of the ground..........

I know Gary Drayton has been using his in Soth Florida and having good luck with it, both in the finds, and in the ability to use the meter to tell what is good and bad... It looks promising as a beach detector, I would like to try the CTX3030 at the beach myself, but the cost want allow it at this time... I am waiting on the report on it from my hunting partner Davespens..........

 

[khouse]

In sand scoop everything but iron. Everyone knows if you dig it all you won't miss anything. But at what cost? I have come to learn that using discrimination is a good thing. Let's say you have 2 hours to hunt. We go to a trashy park where there is a ton of trash with many silver coins scattered about. You choose the "beep dig" method. I choose to only dig the higher conductive targets looking for silver and Wheaties. Yes, I will miss the small gold stuff but my percentage of quality targets go way up per dig even though I'm not digging as many targets as you. There is way more trash targets in the ground than good ones. So the "beep dig" hunter may dig one target every minute? Maybe more? In fact they may not even get off his knees digging every beep? I on the other hand know that when I dig a target my odds are high that my time is worth it. I have hunted both types of hunting and prefer discriminating most of the trash out at the known risk of missing small jewelry. But I know that after I have "cherry picked" all the high conductors from the ground I can simply reduce my discrimination and rehunt and dig more trash at this very site. It's all about time management. How many quality targets can one recover in the amount of time you hunt. This is an example of a trashy site. Adjustments are made from site to site.

 

[LewieMD]

Well, when you say "bottle caps", I assume you mean the type that are also known as "crown top" caps? (as opposed to aluminum screw-cap types). If so, the crown top type contain enough iron in them that they can be oft-times passed with a TID machine (they sound cr*ppy, depending how corroded or fresh, etc...). Other than that, most of us don't pass any conductors on the beach. We'll only pass iron. And a pulse machine can't pass iron (unless you want to try to 2nd-guess sounds all day long).

Hi Tom. The bottlecaps that I refer to are almost always from a beer bottle; "crown-top" as you call them. Believe they are ferrous as you indicated. So OK, the answer is that the TID machine will at least allow the hunter to pass on the bottlecaps I mentioned. Pull tabs would still be a pain but to tell you the truth, at least here on the south shore beaches, the bottlecaps outnumber the pull tabs 25-1 so being able to pass on "iron" would be a big advantage.

Thanks for your reply.

Lew

 

[LewieMD]

In sand scoop everything but iron. Everyone knows if you dig it all you won't miss anything. But at what cost? I have come to learn that using discrimination is a good thing. Let's say you have 2 hours to hunt. We go to a trashy park where there is a ton of trash with many silver coins scattered about. You choose the "beep dig" method. I choose to only dig the higher conductive targets looking for silver and Wheaties. Yes, I will miss the small gold stuff but my percentage of quality targets go way up per dig even though I'm not digging as many targets as you. There is way more trash targets in the ground than good ones. So the "beep dig" hunter may dig one target every minute? Maybe more? In fact they may not even get off his knees digging every beep? I on the other hand know that when I dig a target my odds are high that my time is worth it. I have hunted both types of hunting and prefer discriminating most of the trash out at the known risk of missing small jewelry. But I know that after I have "cherry picked" all the high conductors from the ground I can simply reduce my discrimination and rehunt and dig more trash at this very site. It's all about time management. How many quality targets can one recover in the amount of time you hunt. This is an example of a trashy site. Adjustments are made from site to site.

That makes a lot of sense to me khouse. Thanks.

Lew